Armour & weapon designs - a plea (part IV).

[JFSOCC]

On the subject of helmets, what about scary looking ones like the samurai demon masks/helmets?

 

 

 

 

[Karranthain]

Aye, masks would be nice too, some other examples :

 

 

 

 

[Lephys]

I do enjoy the masks. In every single Assassin's Creed game, you get some spiffy armor set you can optionally unlock and use. My favorite was in Revelations. It was supposed to be the armor of Ishak Pasha. It had one of those awesome Janissary-style masks.

 

I cannot find a good picture at the moment (they're all at weird angles and/or far away so you can't really see the mask), and I can't access image-storage sites at the moment (with which to properly post a picture). But, if you search for Ishak Pasha armor, you can see some examples.

[Tsuga C]

^ I LOVE Schallers.  (German helmet, like the one in the next pic)

A perfectly lovely day in the park, it would seem. Those Saracen tree squirrels are in deep doo-doo.

[Karranthain]

I do enjoy the masks. In every single Assassin's Creed game, you get some spiffy armor set you can optionally unlock and use. My favorite was in Revelations. It was supposed to be the armor of Ishak Pasha. It had one of those awesome Janissary-style masks.

 

I cannot find a good picture at the moment (they're all at weird angles and/or far away so you can't really see the mask), and I can't access image-storage sites at the moment (with which to properly post a picture). But, if you search for Ishak Pasha armor, you can see some examples.

 

You mean this one?

 

 

Pretty cool, yeah.

 

Some other examples from the Path of Exile :

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When you think about it, some would be a nice fit for Vailians.

[Nonek]

I have always been a little enchanted by the supposed Golden Mask of Agamemnon that was found at Mycenae, the black robed priests in Time Bandits wear something similar to rather striking effect I think.

[Karranthain]

I have always been a little enchanted by the supposed Golden Mask of Agamemnon that was found at Mycenae, the black robed priests in Time Bandits wear something similar to rather striking effect I think.

 

 

I loved that movie as a child. And it has David Warner too.

 

The plague doctor masks are quite a sight too!

[Prometheus]

In the gdc slide There was one pic with many weapons/Armors from Project Eternity. Because this is the armor/weapon thread I will post this slide here:

The people on the second pic seem to be all wizards because they have all a grimoire. What weapon has the character on the right side of the second pic equiped?

Edited November 19, 2013 by Prometheus

[Rabain]

Could be a wand perhaps?  Big enough so you can see rather than flimsy and practically invisible.

 

Personally I think a lot of games end up with helmet removal mods not because helmets are bad in the games but because in a game where you get to customize your characters facial features and hair colour most people want to see that while they play rather than look at a helmet they are only wearing for its benefit rather than because they like it.  They cannot customize their helmet in the same way they did their character.

 

This is the type of thing that is better off as a game option just so you can see your characters faces if you wish.

[SophosTheWise]

The only thing I don't like as much is that many characters don't wear hats or helmets. Also, too many hoods. But other than that, it's fantastic.

[Karranthain]

Could be a wand perhaps?  Big enough so you can see rather than flimsy and practically invisible.

 

Personally I think a lot of games end up with helmet removal mods not because helmets are bad in the games but because in a game where you get to customize your characters facial features and hair colour most people want to see that while they play rather than look at a helmet they are only wearing for its benefit rather than because they like it.  They cannot customize their helmet in the same way they did their character.

 

This is the type of thing that is better off as a game option just so you can see your characters faces if you wish.

 

Perhaps I'm seeing things, but I think it's an axe.

 

I think it's probably the combination of the two, for an instance, this is probably one of the most popular designs out of Morrowind :

 

 

And yet it obscures the face of the wearer completely. It's strikingly unique, however.

 

Of course, when it comes to PE, which will have very little in the way of character facial features customisation, having exceptional helmet designs is all the more important.

[Prometheus]

 Also, too many hoods. But other than that, it's fantastic.

I'm not sure, but I think they wear the same hood, just that the character's have choosen different primary/secondary colors. So it is more a "problem" that they equiped all the character's with the same item not that there are too many hood items.

[Lephys]

Perhaps I'm seeing things, but I think it's an axe.

There does appear to be an axe head in front of the character's right knee region, now that you mention it. It's very hard to tell, though.

 

Also, even if that's not a wand, I DO hope wands will be more like scepters (though maybe not QUITE as big as that possibly-axe-haft?), and less like tiny, fragile twigs. I really couldn't say why, but I don't like the idea of wands being magical, so it doesn't matter if they're just a strand of hair in your hand or something. I don't want to point at people like a fact on a chalkboard. I wand to brandish a friggin' magical conduit at people like it's a roman candle on steroids. Like there's real power coming out of it, and it actually requires a good grip to hold steady against that discharge.

[Walsingham]

It seems to me that the factors governing helmet design are:

 

Functional

• Materials available, govern the thickness and rigidity of the armour
• Weapons govern the style of the threat and whether a helmet is designed to stop the threat, or some subset of the threat (e.g. a knight's helm, vs a modern tankist's headgear)
• The industrial/artisan processes needed to shape the materials. So the culture may have access to iron, but it can't shape it easily, so it makes helmets out of bronze
• An emphasis on the 'warrior' culture. i.e. the Zulu had plenty of iron and leather, but refused protective headgear

Social

• 'Spare' weight delivered by materials or design gives rise to additional ornamentation
• This can be offset by sedentary wear, either official, or by stirruped cavalry
• Materials used are polishable metals like gold or brass, and feathers or horsehair.

~~
 

EDIT

 

What I mean by this is that given equivalent social structures and materials yu will get convergent designs of helmet. hence 'real world' designs make a lot of sense.

 

However, if you introduced materials which are lighter, stronger, or easier to work than real materials then designs may alter. A weak, easily worked materials would produce corrugated designs of great strength. A heavy difficult to work, but cheap material might produce common but very ugly and cumbersome designs

 

Similarly, if you change the threat then you change the armour. In PE we have magic. So some designs may be oriented to protect chiefly against magic. You might have something like ringmail, made of interlocking sigils!

Edited November 20, 2013 by Walsingham

[SophosTheWise]

By the way, has anyone of you seen the gameplay footage from Deep Down for PS4?

That's armour porn! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIRUImPWaOo

[Merlkir]

The Japanese seem to consistently get European armour right. What the hell? :D Looking at recent western RPGs, it's a bit of a shamefur dispray.

[Karranthain]

It seems to me that the factors governing helmet design are:

 

Functional

• Materials available, govern the thickness and rigidity of the armour
• Weapons govern the style of the threat and whether a helmet is designed to stop the threat, or some subset of the threat (e.g. a knight's helm, vs a modern tankist's headgear)
• The industrial/artisan processes needed to shape the materials. So the culture may have access to iron, but it can't shape it easily, so it makes helmets out of bronze
• An emphasis on the 'warrior' culture. i.e. the Zulu had plenty of iron and leather, but refused protective headgear

Social

• 'Spare' weight delivered by materials or design gives rise to additional ornamentation
• This can be offset by sedentary wear, either official, or by stirruped cavalry
• Materials used are polishable metals like gold or brass, and feathers or horsehair.

~~

 

EDIT

 

What I mean by this is that given equivalent social structures and materials yu will get convergent designs of helmet. hence 'real world' designs make a lot of sense.

 

However, if you introduced materials which are lighter, stronger, or easier to work than real materials then designs may alter. A weak, easily worked materials would produce corrugated designs of great strength. A heavy difficult to work, but cheap material might produce common but very ugly and cumbersome designs

 

Similarly, if you change the threat then you change the armour. In PE we have magic. So some designs may be oriented to protect chiefly against magic. You might have something like ringmail, made of interlocking sigils!

 

I've touched upon the matter of culture influencing the designs in this topic : http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/64287-cultural-equipment/?do=findComment&comment=1361958.

 

I hope that at least some of the things that you've mentioned will be factored in; that is a lot of work, granted. But I think it makes for a very believable world.

[Karranthain]

By the way, has anyone of you seen the gameplay footage from Deep Down for PS4?

That's armour porn! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIRUImPWaOo

 

The Japanese seem to consistently get European armour right. What the hell? :D Looking at recent western RPGs, it's a bit of a shamefur dispray.

Love it, the armour looks amazing :

 

 

 

Makes for a very distinctive look. And it's a mainstream title too.

[Jarmo]

Japanese don't consistently get european or any other armor right, or anything else even. 

It's just a recent trend/fad/meme by a couple of games. An appreciable one, but still.

 

Hope it spreads over before dying...

[Merlkir]

Japanese don't consistently get european or any other armor right, or anything else even. 

It's just a recent trend/fad/meme by a couple of games. An appreciable one, but still.

 

Hope it spreads over before dying...

 

It's not exclusive to gaming. I think Japanese devs share a certain mentality with anime companies and others producing art - that history makes for good base design. If you look at Ghibli films, a lot of Miyazaki's designs are straight out of European history. Armour and architecture especially. Of course, they add a layer of Japanese weirdness, but look at Nausicaa, Earthsea etc. Or the recent Berserk movies - while the main hero designs are quite outrageously fantasyish and demonic, the background guys (and Griffith for the most part) are all in historical looking European armour.

 

I could go on. The point is - even when doing over the top fantasy stuff, the Japanese seem to draw more from actual historical designs than European or American designers. You know, it's like they actually looked at real armour, instead of rehasing their childhood DnD memories mixed with american football gear.

[Mor]

Is it possible that European/American armour/weapon designs seems like "rehashing their childhood DnD memories mixed with american football gear" because it was done so many times before that they try to distinguish them-self by trying a more stylized exaggerated approach? which is exactly how I perceive anime style in relation to the Japaneses armour/weapon/people design.

Edited December 3, 2013 by Mor

[Karranthain]

 

Japanese don't consistently get european or any other armor right, or anything else even. 

It's just a recent trend/fad/meme by a couple of games. An appreciable one, but still.

 

Hope it spreads over before dying...

 

It's not exclusive to gaming. I think Japanese devs share a certain mentality with anime companies and others producing art - that history makes for good base design. If you look at Ghibli films, a lot of Miyazaki's designs are straight out of European history. Armour and architecture especially. Of course, they add a layer of Japanese weirdness, but look at Nausicaa, Earthsea etc. Or the recent Berserk movies - while the main hero designs are quite outrageously fantasyish and demonic, the background guys (and Griffith for the most part) are all in historical looking European armour.

 

I could go on. The point is - even when doing over the top fantasy stuff, the Japanese seem to draw more from actual historical designs than European or American designers. You know, it's like they actually looked at real armour, instead of rehasing their childhood DnD memories mixed with american football gear.

 

 

At this point, I'm beginning to suspect that most of them are either too lazy to do proper research or perhaps believe that "we can do better" and discount historical designs altogether. 

 

And we're left with "DnD memories mixed with american football gear" most of the time, sadly. How many recent titles had designs that you'd recognize without knowing the context that they appear in? I'd say only Witcher games qualify.

[Merlkir]

If anyone's not familiar with Berserk, btw, the movies are a bit hard to follow if you've not read the manga. Still, the battle scenes are awesome. Larger than life heroes and good looking "historical" extras.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Npm9sk9fCR8

[Osvir]

I came here with a different purpose but when I saw Merlkir's post I had to react to it somehow... BERRRRSEEEEEEEEERRRRK!!!!!!!!! <3

Back to topic, some Wizard stuff and magical wear/armour and whatnot... COATS!:

 

[Karranthain]

Some interesting Gaelic designs (for the Glanfathans or Dyrwoodans perhaps?):

 

The Claymore (possibly the most cool looking greatsword ever):

 

 

Gallowglasses and Kerns :

 

 

 

 

And a bonus: