EA lives in a different reality

[Tale]

Citadel doesn't expand the actual story in any way, it's just character exploration.

 

Leviathan is the DLC for ME3 that has story implications. And there are people already worried about what it might mean for ME4.

[alanschu]

Citadel doesn't expand the actual story in any way, it's just character exploration.

 

Leviathan is the DLC for ME3 that has story implications. And there are people already worried about what it might mean for ME4.

 

Fair enough.  My point was to just illustrate that the content was still core to LOTSB success.  It just means that Citadel is more easily accounted for (i.e. ignored) for whatever ME4 attempts to do (the endings are 10000x bigger fish to fry than Leviathan).

Edited March 20, 2013 by alanschu

[Raithe]

I have to admit LOTSB certainly had that something that clicked. The mixture of mission and character, fun banter (case in point, the crack about omni-gel and door locks), dialogue (with some choices), the use of companions, and the actual story all worked well together.

 

Arrival on the other hand had a couple of interesting ideas, but then actually felt like one long run-n-shoot corridor* with no actual choices to make in any of the brief dialogue and the actions you chose had no real effect because it was always going to end the same way. Since you were solo there was no fun companion banter over what was occuring and it made it feel even more like a straight shooter rather then any element of rp.

 

* And yes, I know, pretty much all of the ME missions across the series are really a straight corridor run, but they don't always feel like a straight point a to point b process. Arrival just didn't have the atmosphere/trick that avoided it showing.

[alanschu]

I guess Arrival serves as something of a counterpoint to my idea that content is the bigger focus?

 

I actually haven't played either of the DLC, but the idea that all parts of the DLC make up a significant part (whether they be "never before done" or not).

[Raithe]

Hm, Arrival was an odd sorts I have to say. It had pretty much two locations ; the bataarian prison, and the science asteroid outpost. And neither of them really had any character, and you couldn't get a sense of feeling the locations because you were pretty much zooming through shooting constantly. There wasn't any real feel for pause or moment to get into what the locations were, just blitz through with guns blazing. Then you have a brief conversation with Harbringer doing his all "you can't understand us allmighty reapers" and then boom, Shepard destroys the Alpha Relay and wipes out the system.

[Chilloutman]

Well I still dont know what was so bad about Datadisks. I mean I was completely fine with Lord of destruction Datadisk for D2. It got new  Act, 2 new classes and tons of new items/game mechanics. And I just paid once for it. I mean I know why its important for developers to gain more cash for next project so they work on their old one (no need for new engine, mostly content related) and gain more cash for next project. EA doesnt care about funding next project, its all about money making. It will never expand IP (intentionaly) or bring anything valuable for its price. I mean I am ok buying game and know that there will maybe be datadisk. But buying game and knowing that I am buying half of the product already and second half will be delivered in 10 DLC. and 2 DLC togather have same value as Datadisk for D2.... not my cup of tea. I still want to play through ME1-3 but I am waiting for some Megaedition with all DLCs and without Origin. Until that I am not spending a single penny on EA games.

[Halaster]

I think there's a big risk if we only take the loudest feedback (since there's always a group that's very loud about every BioWare game.  I stopped going to BioWare's forums when Obsidian came online because it was frustrating me back then).

 

 

I don't recall it being "always" like that to the same extent. I think it reached a new scale with DA2. Sure there was grumbling about ME2, but overall what the game lost in RPG elements it gained in shooter fluidity and character writing, so overall people were willing to let it go. RPG or not, it was undeniably fun. The fact that at the time, BioWare seemed to have a second, more 'core' RPG product line in the form of DA:O, probably also played a part in muting any widespread ME2 whining.

 

Do you not agree that from DA2 on (specifically when the devs starting saying on the BSN what changes were coming relative to Origins), ie the point of a very noticeable swing away from RPG mechanics and into console action-adventure - was the point when the whining really changed in depth and reach?

[Amentep]

I agree that Arrival wasn't as well received (and potentially too significant to the main story).  Somewhat interestingly, though, ME3's start still "worked" for me because I was under the impression he was grounded due to his affiliation with Cerberus in ME2.  (I knew nothing about Arrival until after ME3)

 

For me, though, that doesn't work since the end of the ME2 doesn't indicate that Sheppard is going back to work with the Alliance at all.  I pretty much did not know what had happened between the end of ME2 and beginning of ME3 and nothing in the game really made it make sense (I went online to try and figure out what I was missing).

 

Luckily the face import bug made my Sheppard look different so I pretended it was different character.

[alanschu]

 

For me, though, that doesn't work since the end of the ME2 doesn't indicate that Sheppard is going back to work with the Alliance at all.  I pretty much did not know what had happened between the end of ME2 and beginning of ME3 and nothing in the game really made it make sense (I went online to try and figure out what I was missing).

 

I agree it doesn't indicate that Shepard is going to go back to the Alliance.  I guess it was just one of those things that I interpolated while playing the newer game (cognitive dissonance avoider or something).  So, yes, I didn't know that Shepard was going back to the Alliance, but it was easy enough for me to accept that he did between the games.

 

 

 

 

I don't recall it being "always" like that to the same extent. I think it reached a new scale with DA2. Sure there was grumbling about ME2, but overall what the game lost in RPG elements it gained in shooter fluidity and character writing, so overall people were willing to let it go. RPG or not, it was undeniably fun. The fact that at the time, BioWare seemed to have a second, more 'core' RPG product line in the form of DA:O, probably also played a part in muting any widespread ME2 whining.

 

I'm thinking back to NWN OC, KOTOR's consolification, as well as Jade Empire (when I left) console exclusiveness.  At which point I ended up here.

 

DA2 (and ME3) is probably the loudest, sure, but the BSN has always suffered from "we're a very large online community" (similar to Blizzard's forums) which meant the signal to noise ratio tends to be quite low, in my opinion.

 

 

Do you not agree that from DA2 on (specifically when the devs starting saying on the BSN what changes were coming relative to Origins), ie the point of a very noticeable swing away from RPG mechanics and into console action-adventure - was the point when the whining really changed in depth and reach?

 

I didn't follow DA2 on the boards.  I stopped following the BSN as an employee, after a brief stint of support for DAO where I was inundated with waves of petulant rage.  Some guy once sent me a PM stating how he wished I was aborted as a fetus so that someone competent could have QA'd Dragon Age: Origins, because it was obvious we only did a half assed job of finding and fixing serious and obvious issues with the game.  After 2 weeks of dealing with throngs of posters that were acting like that, I had to tell the guy I was helping out that I was done and doing other offline work.

[Amentep]

The disconnect for me between ME2 and ME3 didn't destroy the game for me, but I felt like I was missing something (which since I don't have a way to get DLC, I was already feeling put out about).

 

My experience with BSN is similar to Alan's, I remember the complaints about the NWN Official Campaign being rather loud (although many respected the fan creating game aspect of it). 

 

There was a lot of hate for Jade Empire in my time there.  The fact it was on XBOX first, for it not being a medieval fantasy setting, for not being real-time with pause, for it being "racist" that a North American company was making a game set in "China", for picking character looks that were based off "chinese action film bad-guys with no understanding of Chinese culture", for putting "ninja" and "samurai" in a game set in "China", for creating a new language and more.  It wasn't a pleasant time to be there and I was primarily a lurker.

 

Mass Effect generated a lot of "Bioware is going to become a FPS company and ditch role-playing games" as I recall, too.  I don't think any of the Bioware games haven't received a significant amount of flak; I think DAO did better in pre-release than many of the others.

 

That said, it was the "Bethany should be romanceable" threads that ultimately made me abandon the forums even as a lurker.

 

(As a side note, I don't mind DA2 being action-RPG oriented.  I loved JE and ME.  I think it would have made more sense to release it as a "Dragon Age: Sidestory" than as DA2 though because of the expectations).

Edited March 28, 2013 by Amentep

[alanschu]

 

(As a side note, I don't mind DA2 being action-RPG oriented.  I loved JE and ME.  I think it would have made more sense to release it as a "Dragon Age: Sidestory" than as DA2 though because of the expectations).

 

I actually agree, though that ship has sailed so we have to roll with it haha.

[Nonek]

Why do you think that Bioware inspire such rabid obsession, if you don't mind me asking Mr Schu? Their output has always been (to me) fairly middle of the road, and yet the few times i've been on their social network, (to log in the Dragon Age's and purchase Mass Effect 2 dlc's) the disturbing nature of the fanbase has always struck me as rather severe. Is this somewhat analogous to the fan frenzies we see for girl/boy/Bieber bands, that are a "safe" object of idolisation?

[alanschu]

I think for many (including myself), the games strike an emotional chord.  I think this is why many were so let down by the ending of Mass Effect 3, because they were so emotionally invested in the setting/characters/Shepard/whatever else.

 

It started in its roots with BG1 which was a good PnP adaptation IMO, but BG2 is where the characters really started to shine (it's also what introduced the romances), and as such that level of emotional investment is what many seek from the games.

 

I think those that still get that are typically happy, while those that don't get that feeling (for whatever their reasons may be) are the ones that feel more angered/dejected.

 

 

That's my "I have given this about 5 minutes of analysis" response.

[Halaster]

I stopped following the BSN as an employee, after a brief stint of support for DAO where I was inundated with waves of petulant rage.  Some guy once sent me a PM stating how he wished I was aborted as a fetus so that someone competent could have QA'd Dragon Age: Origins, because it was obvious we only did a half assed job of finding and fixing serious and obvious issues with the game.  After 2 weeks of dealing with throngs of posters that were acting like that, I had to tell the guy I was helping out that I was done and doing other offline work.

That's shocking ... I spent a bit of time on the BSN and my impression was that until DA2 info 'leaked' it was fairly civilized. Entire threads like "you know you've been playing too much dragon age when..." (and posts like "your real dog dies, unfed for 3 weeks") went on for dozens of pages and weeks on end without a single troll or killjoy (and not because they were moderated out like now). The strategy section was chock full of people who had been rummaging around in the toolkit and were eager to share good builds, excited that a +1 modifier to X was better than a +2 modifier to Y etc. It really had the atmosphere of an indie forum. Seems I must have missed a lot of vile stuff. I do remember Jade getting some flack, although it seemed to stem largely from people who didn't play it on principle (console action - boycott), unlike DA2 'haters'.

[alanschu]

I'd probably agree that DAO was less divisive than DA2 was in general.  I found DA2 polarizing, where there were those that disliked it and those that still liked it, and they both pushed themselves to the extremes because internets.

 

It probably also depends on timing and just where one happens to be (no one goes to Tech Support forum to tell me I am awesome).

[Calax]

I'd probably agree that DAO was less divisive than DA2 was in general.  I found DA2 polarizing, where there were those that disliked it and those that still liked it, and they both pushed themselves to the extremes because internets.

 

It probably also depends on timing and just where one happens to be (no one goes to Tech Support forum to tell me I am awesome).

Probably because it didn't feel like the sequel. It could still use the Brand, but it shouldn't be a direct sequel, like you said.

 

I think it'd be interesting to see the games industry run by gamers who wanted to make money, but also could have a little bit of personal indulgence for "chance" projects. Right now our developers are scared of trying to sell a new IP simply because names bring in a fanbase. If there was somebody in charge who wanted to be more friendly to his customers, and was willing to take chances on newer IP's you'd probably see a few changes in how that company was viewed.

 

I do think we're gonna see some interesting things happen in EA with Ricatello leaving.

[NOK222]

I was on BSN since it's founding, I started seeing the shift when they released Awakening. Then it got worst from there, culminating into the Dragon Age 2 fiasco.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

BSN was always insane. It wasn't until Awakening and DA2 that it went from annoying friendly neighbor crazy to mutilate your genitals and rape your dog crazy.

[Orogun01]

I also was there since it's inception since they migrated the DA forums there. It wasn't a place open to much discourse and debate, it got to the point that you had to wade through a sea of inane post to find a small gem to which if you responded it would only end up in the sea again.

[Nordicus]

I was on BSN since it's founding, I started seeing the shift when they released Awakening.

 

BSN was always insane. It wasn't until Awakening and DA2 that it went from annoying friendly neighbor crazy to mutilate your genitals and rape your dog crazy.

 

Awakening? What did that expansion do to the community to change it?

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Awakening? What did that expansion do to the community to change it?

IIRC it was pretty half-assed, had quite a few plotholes, and never got patched to fix the multitude of bugs. It didn't generate near the sheer amount of negativity that DA2 did, but it got the ball rolling.

[NOK222]

 

 

Awakening? What did that expansion do to the community to change it?

IIRC it was pretty half-assed, had quite a few plotholes, and never got patched to fix the multitude of bugs. It didn't generate near the sheer amount of negativity that DA2 did, but it got the ball rolling.

 

 

I'm still waiting for my vigilance and black armor fix. I remember when Woo said they were "unfixable". Sighs...

[babaganoosh13]

 

 

Awakening? What did that expansion do to the community to change it?

IIRC

it was pretty half-assed, had quite a few plotholes, and never got

patched to fix the multitude of bugs. It didn't generate near the sheer

amount of negativity that DA2 did, but it got the ball rolling.

 

I'm still waiting for my vigilance and black armor fix. I remember when Woo said they were "unfixable". Sighs...

 

Edited March 29, 2013 by babaganoosh13

[Zoraptor]

Neither did I. It wasn't the most memorable of experiences but it had new(ish) ideas that differentiated it from the base game in a more 'constructive' way than many of the ideas in DA2 managed. I might have felt differently if I had paid an expansion rate for it but since I got the Ultimate Ed it was a nice bonus at the end of the game. I did have a very annoying bug where the interface/ inventory stopped responding a few times though.

[NOK222]

The dlc where you go into the deep and fight that many armed monster was fun though.