Steam Sux! andor Rox!

[Zoraptor]

Since this is pretty much the antithesis of vide(a)o game news and I'll be able to dig it up every 60 odd days...

You haven't been clear outside of "it's got no competition," but the
whole point of Steam is to allow you to have everything under one canopy
because it's far easier than remembering a hundred different passwords
for a hundred different digital distributors.

The 'whole point' of steam is to allow you to have everything under one canopy? Not to, for example, make GabeN money?
 
If you want the potted version of the reason I dislike steam it's that it wants to act as a gatekeeper over an open system, has monopolist power and provides no actual benefit over what being on a PC already provides. If steam did not have steamworks and did not latch itself lamprey like onto 3rd party games I would not care about it in the slightest.

 

And I already have my PC games under one canopy, it's called 'my computer' (or Cyrus to be technical, precursor to Xerxes)

I also want to say that its one of the first  international gaming
companies,  I know of, that has implemented download servers in South
Africa so we get excellent speeds. Yip Steam is my friend

If it's the same situation as here (and it is) it's ISPs mirroring steam's servers to save on international bandwidth, rather than anything to do with steam itself. I can, on occasion, get unmetered downloads from GOG because they've been cached as well, and that ain't due to GOG, it's my ISP saving $$$.

[BruceVC]

Since this is pretty much the antithesis of vide(a)o game news and I'll be able to dig it up every 60 odd days...

You haven't been clear outside of "it's got no competition," but the

whole point of Steam is to allow you to have everything under one canopy

because it's far easier than remembering a hundred different passwords

for a hundred different digital distributors.

The 'whole point' of steam is to allow you to have everything under one canopy? Not to, for example, make GabeN money?

 

If you want the potted version of the reason I dislike steam it's that it wants to act as a gatekeeper over an open system, has monopolist power and provides no actual benefit over what being on a PC already provides. If steam did not have steamworks and did not latch itself lamprey like onto 3rd party games I would not care about it in the slightest.

 

And I already have my PC games under one canopy, it's called 'my computer' (or Cyrus to be technical, precursor to Xerxes)

>

I also want to say that its one of the first  international gaming

companies,  I know of, that has implemented download servers in South

Africa so we get excellent speeds. Yip Steam is my friend

If it's the same situation as here (and it is) it's ISPs mirroring steam's servers to save on international bandwidth, rather than anything to do with steam itself. I can, on occasion, get unmetered downloads from GOG because they've been cached as well, and that ain't due to GOG, it's my ISP saving $$$.

 

 

Okay I am glad you made this post so we can focus on the virtues or deficiencies of the service

I am obviously in the rox camp for the  reasons I mentioned. They include

 

• A local presence in South Africa so downloads are really quick
• The ability to get easy download access to a variety of games that at times are discounted
• Steam has helped indie developers to distribute there games, and in some examples didn't charge initially for it (  see link http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/07/25/how-project-zomboid-was-saved-by-steam-desura-and-fileplanet/ )
• I bought Red Orchestra 2 from  Game Stop and when I wanted to download it the software linked the download to Steam. This game is  30 GB in size so  you can imagine how long this would have taken if I had to use international sites

Steam for president !!!! But I also support Uplay, Origin and other gaming download sites  

[Oerwinde]

I don't really care about Steam aside from the cheap games and relatively easy user interface for the store.

[Dream]

The 'whole point' of steam is to allow you to have everything under one canopy? Not to, for example, make GabeN money?

What? You could describe every single thing under the planet that way. We're talking about what purpose Steam serves for the consumer.

 

If you want the potted version of the reason I dislike steam it's that it wants to act as a gatekeeper over an open system, has monopolist power and provides no actual benefit over what being on a PC already provides. If steam did not have steamworks and did not latch itself lamprey like onto 3rd party games I would not care about it in the slightest.

No benefit? What about an easy overlay to chat with and keep track of your friends, a simple way to track all your games and provide access to them at any time, cloud storage of your saves, and a ****load of other quality of life features.

 

And what negatives come from it being a "gatekeeper over an open system" exactly? I can still mod my games, I can still play offline, I can still do pretty much everything I could before except now I also have access to a ton useful features that weren't available to me previously.

 

And I already have my PC games under one canopy, it's called 'my computer' (or Cyrus to be technical, precursor to Xerxes)

And what happens if your computer takes a **** on itself or you decide to get a new one. I guess now you have to hunt down all the discs, downloaders, and passwords required to get all your games back.

 

Sounds fun.

[melkathi]

And Zoraptor is successfull

Only took three and a half hours for someone to get annoyed

 

 

For me Steam turned out not to offer the user friendly service I would require, so while I own games on the platform, I will choose to buy on GoG instead whereever possible. I have been moving country rather often lately and Steam does not like that, locking me out of my Steam wallet every time. To unlock the funds in my Steam Wallet for use, customer support kindly explained to me that I would need to make a completly new purchase / add funds to my wallet with a new credit card from the new location each time I move. Simply put: "Pay us so you can access the credit you have with us".

Erm... no thanks.

I moved country four times in the past two years and will move again before the end of this year. I am not going to open up a new bank account, get a new credit card just because Steam decided that "In the past you paid with a credit card from a different country than your current IP. Make a purchase with a credit card from your current country to remove the region lock on your account."

[BruceVC]

And Zoraptor is successfull

Only took three and a half hours for someone to get annoyed

 

 

For me Steam turned out not to offer the user friendly service I would require, so while I own games on the platform, I will choose to buy on GoG instead whereever possible. I have been moving country rather often lately and Steam does not like that, locking me out of my Steam wallet every time. To unlock the funds in my Steam Wallet for use, customer support kindly explained to me that I would need to make a completly new purchase / add funds to my wallet with a new credit card from the new location each time I move. Simply put: "Pay us so you can access the credit you have with us".

Erm... no thanks.

I moved country four times in the past two years and will move again before the end of this year. I am not going to open up a new bank account, get a new credit card just because Steam decided that "In the past you paid with a credit card from a different country than your current IP. Make a purchase with a credit card from your current country to remove the region lock on your account."

 

Now this is a legitimate and annoying concern with Steam, it was obviously implemented due to fraud but I can understand the exasperation nonetheless. Sorry to hear that Melk  :

Edited February 23, 2013 by BruceVC

[Nonek]

Not too much of a hassle for me lately, then again i've had it in offline mode since November last year. Don't use it for any function other than the playing of games, so it's not so intrusive, still rage when it tells me I can't access my content at this time but that doesn't happen in offline mode. Prefer GOG and would rather support their business model, but with New Vegas and other must haves on Steam only, well they've got me by the short and curlies.

[Rosbjerg]

For me and my friends it's a godsend - it's made it much easier for us to keep in touch (we live all over the country) and it's a great way to quickly play a game together - plus we use steam chat as a sort of instant messaging system / Skype.. That and when games are on sale I can get 'em at half price of what I can usually find here in Denmark. So I'm definitely in the Rox! camp.

[Hurlshort]

I used to have legitimate gripes with Steam, given that their offline mode was messed up and I had a spotty internet connection.  But they have vastly improved that so I enjoy it as a service.

[greylord]

I run a minimal machine, meaning I kill any program not currently needed.  Steam is just an added program that insist on running for no purpose normally...even offline mode, steam doesn't normally need to come up just to run a game...they just put it in. 

 

Same goes for many other install programs though, but like someone said, GoG is still the way to go on the d/l front IMO.  Less intrusive overall.  They may not have as large a selection, but they don't make intrusion part of their business model.

 

I also am a console gamer, even the PSN doesn't require to be on to be in "offline" mode.  It also has similar items as steam as I recently had a PS3 die on me, and I was able to redownload everything lost on that PS3 to a new PS3.  Even the PSN, XBL and the console download programs overall are friendlier than Steam but offer similar services.  Of course XBL costs more so I suppose you could consider that a detriment and Steam may be better than that.

 

I'm just annoyed at STEAM running in the background as I am a minimalist as far as computer programs running.

[alanschu]

I like Steam, but am not married to it.  In general I love digital distribution, and love some of the convenience features that Steam has (particularly its overlay).  I also like that I can (usually) add it to non-Steam games as well.

 

It's not without costs, however.  It's just that the setbacks it has are ones that don't affect me (I don't care to sell used games, nor do I have restrictive download caps, and I'm always connected anyways).

Edited February 23, 2013 by alanschu

[Keyrock]

I like Steam, but am not married to it.  In general I love digital distribution, and love some of the convenience features that Steam has (particularly its overlay).  I also like that I can (usually) add it to non-Steam games as well.

 

It's not without costs, however.  It's just that the setbacks it has are ones that don't affect me (I don't care to sell used games, nor do I have restrictive download caps, and I'm always connected anyways).

Yeah, for me the pros of Steam outweigh the cons.  I like the convenience.  I would chose GOG over Steam if all things were equal, but GOG doesn't offer Linux support yet, so if a game has Linux support then I won't even consider GOG unless their price is much cheaper, as I'd rather be able to play a game whether I'm booted into Windows or Linux.

[mkreku]

I hated Steam in the beginning (and I still feel a certain animosity against it regarding their European pricing), but then I realized that I own over 100 games on it.

[WDeranged]

I love Steam for the sales but I do ultimately feel like I'm renting the games, when we can finally transfer digital licences (in general, not just Steam) I'll feel far better about digital distribution.

[ShadySands]

I try to avoid Steam whenever possible but I do have a small handful of games on it. I like digital distribution but I don't particularly care for Steam's implementation as none of it's features appeal to me personally (achievements, friend lists, cloud saves) and I have had some bad luck with the always online before (sporadic connection and offline mode not working properly). I also have Origin and Uplay installed on my machine and while I don't care much for them either they don't bother me as much because I only have have a 2 games in Origin and they are EA games and 2 games in Uplay because they are Ubisoft games but I have 5 games in Steam and none of them are Valve games.

[Katphood]

I like steam, and guess what folks! I'm buying a new rig tommorow and I can finally harness it's true potential! 

[LadyCrimson]

I hated the concept of (only) digital distribution, period, for a long time. And very early versions of Steam were the suxxor to a point I uninstalled it. But when New Vegas was Steam only, I tried it again and after a while, I got used to it. The program has improved so it doesn't annoy me so much. For a long time all I had on Steam was FNV. Then I started buying a few things on sale. Then new releases. I'm always in "offline" mode unless I'm purchasing/downloading something (when I'm done DL'ing, I go right back into offline mode). I will choose GoG first if I can, and a physical disc over either if it's possible. But I've learned to live with Steam. Still don't love it. Most games I buy on Steam (sales) end up hardly played anyway.

 

I still very much dislike the concept of digital being the only option in the gaming (and other) markets (vs. a physical copy). But a lot of that is from a general complaint about losing the walk-in store in general as a good option. Oh and since I'm not into the social/online connection thing, having my games "all in one place" means jack to me.

[Humanoid]

(I don't really care to repost my specific complaints about Steam from that other, big thread. This is more about explaining why I feel the way I do about Steam.)

 

How "evil" is Steam? I feel as a company they're about equivalent to Google - they engage in some vaguely creepy crap that I'm not entirely comfortable with, but nothing so bad as to provoke real hostility. I'd rather they not do what they do, but I tolerate it. Unlike Google though, I'd feel it's safe to say their service is far less essential - they didn't pop up to solve a problem that needed to be addressed - as opposed to being stuck in a world of, er.... AltaVista (or more recently, Bing). Steam's existence, more-or-less some occasionally cheap games, does not provide enough benefit to trade-off against its downside.

 

 

TL;DR: My problem with Steam is that it's an unnecessary, no matter how minor, evil. It's not a massive imposition, but neither has its introduction made my computing experience any better than what existed before.

[pmp10]

I was never fond of steam ever since the beta wouldn't allow separate install locations.

And that unlisted ~20% tax on my first steam store purchase didn't help the matters none.

So if other publishers want to follow in Valves shoes and make their games exclusive to proprietary distribution platforms I'm fine with it.

[BruceVC]

I

 

I still very much dislike the concept of digital being the only option in the gaming (and other) markets (vs. a physical copy). But a lot of that is from a general complaint about losing the walk-in store in general as a good option. Oh and since I'm not into the social/online connection thing, having my games "all in one place" means jack to me.

 

In South Africa walking into a store and buying a hard copy is still common, personally I like the tactile experience of buying games or books in stores but digital distribution also makes practical sense at times

[Mamoulian War]

 

• I bought Red Orchestra 2 from  Game Stop and when I wanted to download it the software linked the download to Steam. This game is  30 GB in size so  you can imagine how long this would have taken if I had to use international sites

 

And this is the reason, why I do not like Steamworks, why in the hell you have to download 30GB from the internet, when you just bought the disc?

[BruceVC]

 

 

• I bought Red Orchestra 2 from  Game Stop and when I wanted to download it the software linked the download to Steam. This game is  30 GB in size so  you can imagine how long this would have taken if I had to use international sites

 

And this is the reason, why I do not like Steamworks, why in the hell you have to download 30GB from the internet, when you just bought the disc?

 

 

Sorry I meant to say I bought the digital copy from Game Stop online. Not a physical copy But its still a big download, the biggest I have ever seen

[Mamoulian War]

 

 

And copy paste from another thread...

 

 

 

I actually like Steam..

Which is cool, I really

don't have a problem with people liking steam, my problem is pretty

much entirely with steamworks as I have a problem with the unlevel

playing field, shift towards lock in and closing of an open platform,

all of which are ultimately very large problems.

 

The

rest is just frustration at, well, steamtards. The sort of people who

celebrate lack of choice because the only choice is one that they like.

If I were appointed God For A Day I'd never in a million years do the

reverse and wave my hand to make steam disappear yet many steam fans

would clearly be happy to force everyone to use steam just because they

like it and anyone with other preferences can go asterisk themselves, an

attitude that for anything other than steam would be widely deplored.

It's unimaginable that you'd get hordes of people advocating only one

flavour of ice cream or milkshakes or one make of car or one television

provider, yet only one flavour of PC game supplier? OH GOD ITS HEVAN, to

quote the great philosopher ~aphatmc.

 

Anyway, bored now, next steam rant in 60 days.

What

exactly is so bad about Steam though? You can still mod games, still

play offline, hell it doesn't even limit people playing the same game on

the same account at the same time (as long as one is playing offline).

About Steam as a distribution model is nothing wrong, the problem is Steam as DRM, because people who do not like some "features" of Steamworks do not have possibility to play Fallout: New Vegas on PC for example...

[Zoraptor]

 

 

• A local presence in South Africa so downloads are really quick

 

 

That isn't steam- if you clicked the link I made you'd see that the server(s) are not run by steam (valve), but by your countries ISPs as a way to minimise international bandwidth costs. They'll also cache stuff to minimise those costs as well, and it isn't kotaku being brilliant if you're pulling its info down super fast because it's cached, it is your ISP saving money.

And Zoraptor is successfull

Only took three and a half hours for someone to get annoyed

meh, some people just hate other people disliking something they like. See it a lot with steam, people insisting that offline mode works 100% fine because it works for them, insisting that support is brilliant because they've never had a problem and that anyone who has had a problem is lying. Occupational hazard, but at least it isn't in a general interest thread now.

What? You could describe every single thing under the planet that way. We're talking about what purpose Steam serves for the consumer.

Don't blame me bro, you said the "whole point", not "the reason I like it" or similar. Please try to be more accurate in future, ta.

 

No benefit? What about an easy overlay to chat with and keep track of your friends, a simple way to track all your games and provide access to them at any time, cloud storage of your saves, and a ****load of other quality of life features.

Yep, no benefit. There are other programs I can use to do all of those things, no need for steam, hence no benefit.

 

And what negatives come from it being a "gatekeeper over an open system" exactly? I can still mod my games, I can still play offline, I can still do pretty much everything I could before except now I also have access to a ton useful features that weren't available to me previously.

They were available to you previously, you've just bunged a middleman in the, er, middle who OKs everything you do and everything that is released. If you cannot see why that is a problem you need only look at MS and windows- a far less militated and far more open system. Free IE? Nice microsoft, providing an alternative to Netscape that just happens to have a bunch extra, exclusive features that actually already exist. Extensions to Java? Ta MS, adding extra features out of the goodness of your heart and not at all to Embrace Extend and Extinguish. Ta Valve, adding mod support, something that PC games have had for ages, I'm sure you ain't trying the E3 strategy Gabe learned at MS because you've got a beard and like knives and reply to emails and aren't really interested in money just in being super awesome. In reality rather than fantasy steams's extra services are provided because they are lock in features to try and make steam default and necessary, not for any other purpose. It's just cannabalisation (or E3) of existing PC stuff, not anything new.

 

And what happens if your computer takes a **** on itself or you decide to get a new one. I guess now you have to hunt down all the discs, downloaders, and passwords required to get all your games back.

If I get a new one I do exactly what I did last time I got a new one, either put the old disk into the new computer or image it to a portable (which costs less than a full price game does here for a whole new disk). I also have backups (!!!) of my HD. Even when I did have a HD crash it wasn't a problem and I lost precisely nothing. I don't have any asbergian need to have my HD full of games, just the ones I'm playing will do, anyway. Good thing about no gatekeepers (understandably, not something you'd think about) is that I don't have to go running to Uncle Steam to reverify or redownload anything at all, in most cases I can either copy the files back or double click the installs, nothing else required, and it doesn't matter if the internet is down or I've just moved house or whatever either. It's sweet, glorious freedom, not indentured servitude to the Lord Your Gabe.

 

And, at the end, if you bought all your games from Impulse or Gamersgate you'd achieve the same 'benefit' as it ain't a steam benefit, it's a general DD benefit.

Edited February 23, 2013 by Zoraptor

[BruceVC]

 

 

• A local presence in South Africa so downloads are really quick

 

That isn't steam- if you clicked the link I made you'd see that the server(s) are not run by steam (valve), but by your countries ISPs as a way to minimise international bandwidth costs. They'll also cache stuff to minimise those costs as well, and it isn't kotaku being brilliant if you're pulling its info down super fast because it's cached, it is your ISP saving money.

 

I don't this is the case, none of the listed ISP for South Africa is the one I use. I am sure this is a case of Steam approaching certain ISP and allowing them to host the Steam software repository , of course it benefits both parties but I think this is a value add so that customers in certain countries get quicker speeds?

Edited February 23, 2013 by BruceVC