KNOCK KNOCK!?

[Osvir]

SMASH!

EDIT: This post made me Wizard :D also, read this whole update thread and this post.

Edited February 6, 2013 by Osvir

[IndiraLightfoot]

Yes to all, it just seems fitting in a game with Orlan detectives snooping about in cities. It would make cities even more versatile. And imagine bashing in the door to that orphanage with your maniac barbarian in the dead of night, having him howling: "Me need pap already!!!"

[PrimeJunta]

But Isabel necessary on a bicycle?

[OliverUv]

And for the love of god, if my unlock spell isn't working that should only be because "A wizard much greater than you has enhanced this lock" - and make damn sure there's such a wizard! There was a huge thread a week back where people raged over having their prepared spells / powers / ideas arbitrarily made irrelevant because a level designer didn't want to bother with that being possible.

[Roenel]

No to all, it wasn't present in IE games!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Yes it was. You could try to force any lock or door based on your strength in baldur's gate. It rarely worked.

 

That's how I'd like to see PoE to do it, you should be at a severe but not overcome-able disadvantage if you don't bring someone with appropriate thieving skills.

[TRX850]

If they have a "Knock" spell for wizards, maybe it should use the equivalent of a wizard's Spellcraft or Concentration skill in place of a Rogue's Open Lock skill when rolling against DC, instead of Knock auto-succeeding every time.  Let the Knock spell scale with level.

[general_azure]

Is this about the unlock spell for casters or the ability to actually, physically knock on doors instead of having to break and enter when you want to talk to someone inside? o.0

[rjshae]

SMASH!

 

Who is it?

[Somna]

If they have a "Knock" spell for wizards, maybe it should use the equivalent of a wizard's Spellcraft or Concentration skill in place of a Rogue's Open Lock skill when rolling against DC, instead of Knock auto-succeeding every time.  Let the Knock spell scale with level.

Knock auto-succeeded on mundane locks and weaker Wizard Locks because it used a precious spell slot -- which meant a lot more in PnP than it did in BG. 

 

This just gave me a different thought though.

[Osvir]

 

 

 

SMASH!

 

Who is it? 

It can be any creature or being but for a concept;

 

this guy:

 

And he could be ripping through the halls of this place:

 

Smashing in doors, something that's difficult to handle and you could either lay out traps to stop it in its way and take it down like that or run to an area where it would be easier to face it.

 

Conceptually. Similarly, it could be you. Like Tucky said (in the post linked in the OP) that you could knock on a door, thus making someone walk up to it: Kick it in and knock the guy out. Brilliant idea.

Edited February 6, 2013 by Osvir

[Bartimaeus]

Before smashing stuff, I'd like to see being able to lock doors/containers if applicable...(obviously, locking the contents of a stash hidden under a rock in the wilderness wouldn't work)...but knocking, I think, would be great. Barging into everyone's homes and most of them being O.K. with it besides the one grumpy old man who tries to kill you who's apparently obviously crazy is a little ridiculous. Smashing doors/chests...don't care too much either way.

Edited February 6, 2013 by Bartimaeus

[LadyCrimson]

I say yes to smash, mostly because I don't typically like lockpicking (if it's a mini-game anyway). So I like there to be other options to open most locks (it's fine if there's a few that can't be brute-strength forced).

 

Lockpicking

Magic casting

SMOOSHING

[some guy]

I went with yes on doors and Knock Knock, but I'm not so sure about chests. Those rogues gotta have something to do after all.

[Jaesun]

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/63308-update-41-dd-dwarves-and-doors/page-4

 

Similarly I think "Fighters simply existing" can be turned around to "Rogue's simply existing". What if I don't have a Rogue to open doors for me? Why should I have a Rogue to open doors for me? Why could I not have a Wizard that has all the magical capabilities to remove the Lock from existence/disintegrate/Melt the locking mechanism with Fire Spells/Divination or whatnot?

 
Rogues have bonuses to opening locks, but other classes can take that skill as well.  We won't include spells or abilities that make invested skills obsolete.

I'm fine with that.

[general_azure]

Well, since the skill to open locked stuff seems to be available to all classes anyways (with a bonus to rogues).... just go ahead and call it "break lock" instead of "pick lock", and make it use whatever is higher between your str and dex values. Now all you berserker types can imagine you smashed that thing to pieces, while it's still business as usual for rogues. 

[AGX-17]

As ususal, lockbashing makes any lockpicking skills worthless. Furthermore, a broken lock is less likely to open than a functional one.

Edited February 7, 2013 by AGX-17

[LadyCrimson]

As ususal, lockbashing makes any lockpicking skills worthless. Furthermore, a broken lock is less likely to open than a functional one.

For crates/chests etc. you can always create a risk of damaged/broken items via smashing. eg, sometimes not all the items survive the smooshing.

[Lephys]

As ususal, lockbashing makes any lockpicking skills worthless. Furthermore, a broken lock is less likely to open than a functional one.

 

Yup yup. Unless you abstractly make it ALWAYS more difficult to bash a lock than to pick it (i.e. a lock with 50 difficulty could be picked by a skill of 50 in lockpicking, but would require the equivalent of a skill of 80 in lockslaughter (lockbashing, ). Of course, the fact that all classes can pick up lockpicking in P:E, and that Rogues will always have a bonus, pretty much accomplishes the same thing already. *shrug*

 

For crates/chests etc. you can always create a risk of damaged/broken items via smashing. eg, sometimes not all the items survive the smooshing.

 

True, but then you've created a chance that someone with absolutely no skillpoints invested could smash a very difficult lock and come out of it with all (or the vast majority) of the contents of the chest, even though Locky McPickerton over there who's spent 15 levels worth of skillpoints on his lockpicking skill could BARELY pick the same lock and get all the stuff inside.

 

To be fair, you'd have to make specific items in each container break and become useless (or extremely less useful/valuable) when a lock was broken as opposed to picked. Which, then, you might as well just balance what loot the lock is impeding you from, and what loot it isn't (leave anything you would've had obtainable through bashing outside locked things, and only put the stuff you would've only left unbroken when the lock were picked inside locked things.

Edited February 7, 2013 by Lephys

[Ffordesoon]

Knocking on doors sounds nice, frankly. It's always a bit weird to come to a locked door and immediately have to pick the lock to see what's inside.

[Osvir]

As ususal, lockbashing makes any lockpicking skills worthless. Furthermore, a broken lock is less likely to open than a functional one.

 

It wouldn't have to, what if the Spell School which allows the Wizard to [unlock] requires 15 levels spent (Just like Lephys says the Rogue spent 15 levels to get that good at lockpicking). In essence,

* [Wizard Unlock] = Invested Skill Path,

* [Rogue Unlocking] = Invested Skill Path.

* [sledgehammer] = Breaks some chests, some doors?

* [Wild Sprint] = Takes down some doors after a couple of times?

 

I agree with LadyCrimson that chests are a different deal, and totally follows a different rule.

 

Some = Wooden/Weak Doors/Chests. Obviously. Stone/Steel Mythical Doors/Chests in some Ancient Prison or Ancient Temple might not be that easy or even possible (in essence: Indestructible). Not to mention possibility for stuff like "the God of Doors", or "the God of Treasures" (Chests) which could simply just make bashing into "Nope".

 

What types of Doors will there be? Magical Barriers that has to be shut down by a Wizard's Magic? (By Spell or Scroll or Item)

 

Would a Fire Barrier in a Doorway be consider a "Door"? Would I be able to use an Ice Spell on that? Granted, if anything like that is in the game.

[JFSOCC]

I went with yes on doors and Knock Knock, but I'm not so sure about chests. Those rogues gotta have something to do after all.

I got a metal chest from the 1600's in our house (family heirloom) One of big-ass chests too.

There is no way in the world you can bash it in.

[some guy]

 

I went with yes on doors and Knock Knock, but I'm not so sure about chests. Those rogues gotta have something to do after all.

I got a metal chest from the 1600's in our house (family heirloom) One of big-ass chests too.

There is no way in the world you can bash it in.

What about if you use a shotgun?

 

Actually, since this game will have some early gunpowder rifles and pistols, have there been any mentions about bombs and such?

[IndiraLightfoot]

Some guy: I love this idea! 

 

Using guns on locks on doors and chests seem reasonable and exciting. And it most likely would come with some danger (ricochet, traps), and it is loud business. Also, a little ammo would be wasted.

 

I've added it to the thread "Ideas not to be forgotten" in General Discussions.

 

EDIT: I actually wrote this post a few hours back, but for some reason it disappeared.

[JFSOCC]

 

 

 

 

I went with yes on doors and Knock Knock, but I'm not so sure about chests. Those rogues gotta have something to do after all.

I got a metal chest from the 1600's in our house (family heirloom) One of big-ass chests too.

There is no way in the world you can bash it in.

 

 

What about if you use a shotgun?

 

Actually, since this game will have some early gunpowder rifles and pistols, have there been any mentions about bombs and such?

 

 

I don't think a black powder gun would work, but putting enough black powder in the lock might. I do believe it would damage the content, however.

[GrinningReaper659]

Yes to all.

 

The whole "allowing locks/doors/chests to be bashed or opened with magic makes lockpicking, and by extension rogues, worthless" is a ridiculous argument. If that logical implementation of alternate ways to open things makes the rogue class worthless, then you're not doing rogues right.

 

Creating a task that you've decided can only be completed by rogues (even if all classes can do exactly what rogues do at a less effective level) makes no sense. I'm just so looking forward to seeing a 20 strength barbarian fumbling with a lock at half the lock's skill level because he doesn't have a rogue buddy to help him through the door... or even better some high level archmage doing the same thing because there's no way that magic could be used to pick the lock, or create a magical door right next to the door he needs to get by, or obliterate the door with fire, and the list goes on.

 

No, we need to make the doors indestructible to make sure that rogues are necessary to bring along in the party (assuming you want loot from chests and don't want to spend a ridiculous amount of time trying to unlock doors with your druid's lockpick skill).

 

IMO, some doors/chests should be easier to break than their locks are to pick, and some doors/chests should be harder to break than their locks are to pick. Some doors could be completely unbreakable by anyone in your party, depending on your party composition and level. Doors and chests should be bashable, because it just makes sense; it's being specifically withheld in order to make a certain class artificially more valuable. A minotaur charging you and bashing down the doors you close along the way, as I believe was one of @Osvir's suggestions? Sure, why not; although I do think that bashing a door with your body should cause you some damage...

 

As for the usefulness of rogues, I think it's safe to say that they could have a lot of usefulness without needing to create it with this mechanic. For example, the ability to unlock and re-lock things, to listen at doors, to sneak, backstab, pick pockets and do myriad other things better than other classes can do them, which does make sense. On the subject of not being able to bash chests open, we might as well say that killed enemies can't be looted because it would take away from the rogues pickpocket ability. Your barbarian has to attempt to pickpocket all enemies instead (at reduced skill level) before killing them if he wants anything they're carrying.

 

Some sort of knocking on doors mechanic so that you don't have to break into everyone's home to get quests, etc. sounds great.

 

TLDR: Yes to all. The idea of making doors, chests, etc. indestructible in order to create more artificial value for rogues is, to me, a very poor gameplay decision.