Trudging Through the Mere - NWN2OC

[Luridis]

I played NWN1, and all three expansions, loved them. I finally picked up NWN2 and I don't think I'm going to finish...

 

It's been a long arduous slog since about half way through the 2nd act. I mean, it's got enemies piled in like Diablo 2 and it's not nearly as fun to kill them. Between the concealment, immunities, resting and just gobs and gobs of hit points that take hours to burn down, every fight is like 15 minutes for me. Then, I turn the corner and it's another group that has me sitting with my chin in my hand saying, "would you just die already so I can get to the next part of this!"

 

Before you ask, no I don't bring wizards/sorcerers, trying to get them to behave, with the party AI controls given to us, is a lot like trying to herd cats. They either do their best to get focus fired or stand they're trying to cast spells when their defensive casting is off. Which, by they way, I had turned on the last zone, and seemed to shut off of it's own accord. I've even tried turning casting off, forcing them to use ranged weapons and only casting when I order it manually. But that, just makes them run to and fro until they've finally managed to drag 6 more enemies into the fight, which of course quickly dispatch the unarmored caster.

 

I keep running into script errors of downright screwball behavior as well. During the siege on crossroads I had both NPCs and friendlies just standing their during the battle, animations frozen, etc. I'm running with four 4.5GHz cores and 16GB RAM with an XMP profile, I dunno what the problem is. Half the time I run into real issues trying to get abilities to queue, and have yet to figure out how to use taunt in combat.

 

After playing most of the game, I think that too much had been laid on that older Aurora architecture. Granted, it may have been all they had to work with but, it just feels like everything is lagging behind processing somehow. I don't know what else to make of it when I click a destination and all of a sudden I seem to teleport across the board. (Really annoying when it does that and drops you in a dialogue trigger and now the camera pans back and fourth across a zone.)

 

Anyway, I give up... going to youtube to watch the cut scenes. Did any of you find the pace just a munch to slow for a CRPG?

Edited January 23, 2013 by Luridis

[Nightshape]

Nope, I didn't use party AI - I turned all that stuff off.

 

I enjoyed NWN2 way way more than NWN.

 

Perhaps it's just the party combat system and the reliance upon AI. I'd suggest turning off AI and using pause to issue command queues.

[Bester]

it just feels like everything is lagging behind processing somehow.

 

And that's 2013. When the game first came out, I had a totally new pc and I couldn't run it smoothly enough to play it. Then 2 years later I got an even newer PC and tried it - still wasn't good enough. I think I tried one more time later and it still wasn't at max fps. I'm not sure any pc can run it, maybe the technology will appear in 10-20 years.

[BruceVC]

Nope, I didn't use party AI - I turned all that stuff off.

 

I enjoyed NWN2 way way more than NWN.

 

Perhaps it's just the party combat system and the reliance upon AI. I'd suggest turning off AI and using pause to issue command queues.

 

This is exactly what I did, enabling the AI made the combat more difficult and frustrating for me.

 

I also preferred NWN2 more than NWN1.

[TMZuk]

I found NWN2 a buggy monster with a terrible UI, and awful effects to boot.

 

It was also rushed and unfinished, leaving a "this could have been so much better" feeling in me.

 

That being said, the campaign was way better than the travesty of a single-player campaign that was NWN1. NWN2 had interesting companions, and a far better story line. And, NWN2 had the Mask of the Betrayer expansion which were downright amazing. Amongst the very best of CRPG campaigns ever.

 

So I lived with the terrible mechanics, because first and last, it was an RPG to me, where NWN1 was mindless hack and slash.

[Luridis]

I don't know, I think maybe it doesn't run entirely properly on Windows 7 as well.

 

And yea, the NWN1 OC sucked, but I think maybe after SoU came out I stopped starting there. Hell, I'm still not sure what Waterdhavian means anyway...

[Rostere]

If you don't count the bugs in the original release, I thought it was a very solid game, at least miles better than NWN 1. The graphics engine in the unpatched version was quite broken, but IIRC it became better with patches. Like someone stated before, just turn off party AI and you'll be fine - it's really quite like Baldur's Gate in 3D. Do you have trouble managing your party in BG as well? If that is the case, you will probably learn everything you need simply by playing more party- based RTwP games.

[Volourn]

The OCs are equal. MOTB was the ebst NWN campaign with HOTU being 2nd. NWN had tthe best overall apckage though. I still play NWN and still working on a module. NWN2's mod scene was alcklustre and a failure.

[HoonDing]

Chapter 2 of NWN2 was very good, the rest was mediocre at best. Final dungeon was decent as well.

[Zoraptor]

NWN2 had far too many trash mobs, and playing with the party AI on at higher difficulties or with lower patch numbers/ no expansions (iirc they added the 'scaled casting' option that stopped people Abu Daziming a stray kobold later) was... not a great experience. One of the games that would have been better if it were about ten hours shorter, so long as that ten hours was chopping out all the trash mobs in the orc caves, warehouses etc. Having said that it was technically flawless for me when I played last year on Win7/64 and my specs are an order of magnitude behind those of the op, and it was overall an enjoyable experience though not a patch on MOTB in either gameplay or storyline.

 

Obligatory, NWN2OC >>> Paint Drying >>> NWNOC, FACT!

Edited January 23, 2013 by Zoraptor

[HoonDing]

NWN1 OC >> NWN2 OC because of hilarious low INT/CHA half-Orc barbarian dialogue and appropriate reactions by pretty much every single NPC in the game.

[Big Bottom]

People seem to love the NWN2 expansion 'Mask of the Betrayer', still haven't got round to playing it meself.

[rjshae]

There are also some pretty good free modules you can get for NWN2. For example, there is a port of Icewind Dale, plus a remake of Baldur's Gate is in the works.

[Azure79]

I played through the campaign twice. I could never get the camera to exactly where I wanted it even with the later camera options. The only other thing that bothered me was how you couldn't move party members independently across a map and how your main character would teleport to the front of any given dialog sequence. It was maddening when playing a less melee focused character or your stealth character was discovered and suddenly your entire party teleported to that location.

 

Otherwise I enjoyed the OC overall and of course MotB was great.

 

I also played with the AI off most of the time. I found certain spell effects too dazzling to the point I couldn't tell what was going on, on the screen sometimes.

[Luridis]

It may be too that I just don't like D&D mechanics in CRPGs without more modifications to the mechanics. I was really happy to read Josh's update today. They seem to be focused on building mechanics that work well in the digital realm for P:E.

[BruceVC]

It may be too that I just don't like D&D mechanics in CRPGs without more modifications to the mechanics. I was really happy to read Josh's update today. They seem to be focused on building mechanics that work well in the digital realm for P:E.

 

 

It sounds like the issue is exactly what you have mentioned, you don't understand the D&D ruleset so a game that uses it is confusing and daunting. I grew up playing AD&D so it makes sense to me but I can understand your concern.

[Malekith]

I don't know, I think maybe it doesn't run entirely properly on Windows 7 as well.

 

And yea, the NWN1 OC sucked, but I think maybe after SoU came out I stopped starting there. Hell, I'm still not sure what Waterdhavian means anyway...

Go  to the game options-graphics. In the quality options disable all of them except normal map terain. The lag will lessen or even disapear completely

[IndiraLightfoot]

I think NWN1 with expansions was alright. I actually liked the 1st expansion better than the Underdark and that plane trip. However, it's no secret I'm a big fan of NWN2: I mean, the camera was wonky and the bugs were many in the beginning, but I truly loved much of the campaign itself and the characters. I've played the OC like 20 times, easy. I know, it's crazy, but I am a big fan of D&D too, so it was no chore, just pure fun. Sometimes the combat was way too easy and a clickfest, and many areas felt empty and rushed, but it was the companions and the feel to it which I loved (thanks, OEI!). Well, and then came MotB, and it was love at first sight. Everything about it was great. It was like Planescape torment, a more mature take on NWN2, and the companions were outstanding. Kaelyn the Dove was my favourite.

 

Being a part of the modding community there myself, I can say that it was the best I've been in. Those forums were fantastic, so many great and helpful people there, I made many friends there. Some of them were NWN1 veterans, but many were new to modding back then, like I was. Try some mods out: They are fewer than NWN1's, but many of them are really very good.

Edited January 24, 2013 by IndiraLightfoot

[Luridis]

 

It may be too that I just don't like D&D mechanics in CRPGs without more modifications to the mechanics. I was really happy to read Josh's update today. They seem to be focused on building mechanics that work well in the digital realm for P:E.

 

 

It sounds like the issue is exactly what you have mentioned, you don't understand the D&D ruleset so a game that uses it is confusing and daunting. I grew up playing AD&D so it makes sense to me but I can understand your concern.

 

I understand the rules fine... they just do not play smoothly in a CRPG. I've mentioned the problems in other threads: the very nature of the "round", bizarre buff lengths, silly miss rates with concealment, etc. What's worse, is that the AI definitely doesn't understand the rules and does all sorts of flaky and annoying things.

[BruceVC]

 

 

It may be too that I just don't like D&D mechanics in CRPGs without more modifications to the mechanics. I was really happy to read Josh's update today. They seem to be focused on building mechanics that work well in the digital realm for P:E.

 

 

It sounds like the issue is exactly what you have mentioned, you don't understand the D&D ruleset so a game that uses it is confusing and daunting. I grew up playing AD&D so it makes sense to me but I can understand your concern.

 

I understand the rules fine... they just do not play smoothly in a CRPG. I've mentioned the problems in other threads: the very nature of the "round", bizarre buff lengths, silly miss rates with concealment, etc. What's worse, is that the AI definitely doesn't understand the rules and does all sorts of flaky and annoying things.

 

 

Okay but then take the AI off and spend more time choosing what your characters should do in combat when you use pause. I really don't remember major issues in combat when I did this, so I don't agree that the D&D ruleset is not appropriate in a CRPG.

[Leferd]

With the re-release on GOG, I may have to consider replaying again. The complete package was equal parts brilliant and infuriating. The interface, controls, and general gameplay was frustrating- though mostly through the legacies of the underlying Aurora Engine. Many of the npcs were engaging; Bishop, Sand, Qara, Khelgar, Torio; the trial scene was well done; everything about MOB. I've only dabbled a little bit of SOZ, and none of MOW.

[Luridis]

 

 

 

It may be too that I just don't like D&D mechanics in CRPGs without more modifications to the mechanics. I was really happy to read Josh's update today. They seem to be focused on building mechanics that work well in the digital realm for P:E.

 

 

It sounds like the issue is exactly what you have mentioned, you don't understand the D&D ruleset so a game that uses it is confusing and daunting. I grew up playing AD&D so it makes sense to me but I can understand your concern.

 

I understand the rules fine... they just do not play smoothly in a CRPG. I've mentioned the problems in other threads: the very nature of the "round", bizarre buff lengths, silly miss rates with concealment, etc. What's worse, is that the AI definitely doesn't understand the rules and does all sorts of flaky and annoying things.

 

 

Okay but then take the AI off and spend more time choosing what your characters should do in combat when you use pause. I really don't remember major issues in combat when I did this, so I don't agree that the D&D ruleset is not appropriate in a CRPG.

 

What I wrote was, "they don't play smoothly in a CRPG."

 

'they don't play smoothly in a CRPG' != 'D&D ruleset is not appropriate in a CRPG.'

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

It may be too that I just don't like D&D mechanics in CRPGs without more modifications to the mechanics. I was really happy to read Josh's update today. They seem to be focused on building mechanics that work well in the digital realm for P:E.

 

 

It sounds like the issue is exactly what you have mentioned, you don't understand the D&D ruleset so a game that uses it is confusing and daunting. I grew up playing AD&D so it makes sense to me but I can understand your concern.

 

I understand the rules fine... they just do not play smoothly in a CRPG. I've mentioned the problems in other threads: the very nature of the "round", bizarre buff lengths, silly miss rates with concealment, etc. What's worse, is that the AI definitely doesn't understand the rules and does all sorts of flaky and annoying things.

 

 

Okay but then take the AI off and spend more time choosing what your characters should do in combat when you use pause. I really don't remember major issues in combat when I did this, so I don't agree that the D&D ruleset is not appropriate in a CRPG.

 

What I wrote was, "they don't play smoothly in a CRPG."

 

'they don't play smoothly in a CRPG' != 'D&D ruleset is not appropriate in a CRPG.'

 

You are nitpicking over semantics.

 

Anyway, you have heard my opinion

[Luridis]

Am I disagreeing that what you wrote is the same as what I wrote in both form and essence? Absolutely... Unless of course, in the case that you did not write what you actually meant. I essentially wrote that D&D rules are not well suited for CRPGs. I understood your statement to mean D&D mechanics are not acceptable for CRPGs. <shrug> Perhaps my own statement wasn't clear, I don't know...

 

I don't derive any satisfaction out of this sort of back-and-fourth. However, when I feel like I'm being misinterpreted, or that someone is trying to put words in my mouth, I will argue that point.

Edited January 25, 2013 by Luridis

[Maria Caliban]

I didn't like it when it came out. I'm not interested in playing it with a newer rig and patches at this point.

 

I'm trying to figure out what about the OC was so much better than the NWN 1 OC. The trial? The companion characters had more dialogue but I couldn't relate to or care about any of them.

 

Oh, and the death of Farmgirl companion to bring in Badass!! companion felt like something out of a comic book.