Cursed Items

[TRX850]

Ever equipped a cursed item, then sworn and reloaded? I have.

 

Here's a new twist to consider though. Instead of curse effects that are annoying and potentially game breaking, what if they were mostly just embarrassing?

 

- Gender reversal

- Tourette-like Syndrome

- Minor Stinking Cloud that follows you around. Affects NPCs/Plot Characters and Negotiations.

 

But here's the kicker.

 

What if the curse doesn't take effect until X amount of time has elapsed? So you genuinely don't know it's cursed and have maybe stored it in your last save?

 

It would mean that spells like Identify and Remove Curse might have to be altered to allow a success rate that scaled with caster level instead of the blanket 100%. Identify could still reveal magical properties, but not necessarily curse properties, unless your caster level beat the curse level.

 

AND

 

What if the curse was dynamically calculated so that no two games had the same cursed items in the same locations? So walkthroughs wouldn't spoil the "fun" in advance.

 

AND

 

What if in rare cases, you had to perform a small quest and/or ritual to remove the curse, instead of casting Remove Curse or paying at a temple?

 

- 3 x skeleton knuckles and a quartz crystal, combine with a squirrels heart, and eat.

- Mix fairy dust with a potion of antidote, and drink.

 

That kind of thing. And you gain a little XP for removing the curse. It would add a little flavour and a new twist to a previous game element that was mostly pointless, because of the swear-and-reload option. (Or curse-and-reload option! <-- See what I did there? )

 

Thoughts?

Edited January 20, 2013 by TRX850

[Alexjh]

I do actually like cursed items, and if anything I think P:E could do with more of them relative to the IE games.  Not massively more, but at least a few, and more evenly distributed.

 

What I'd actually like to see is that in certain occassions a cursed item might be useful - to take your gender swap item - if you are trying to sneak into a city where the guards have been given your description, they wouldn't think twice about letting a woman through if they were expecting a man of a certain appearance and vise-versa.

 

Tourette one might be seen as offensive to people who have actualyl Tourettes though so you'd have to play that one carefully...

[TRX850]

Yes, it needs to be something labelled as game-specific. It could make for some memorable role-playing moments though.

 

 

While brokering a peace deal between warring nations, the King's personal aide-de-camp, Cuthbert of Winchester, was suddenly overcome by a rising sensation, and was overheard bellowing "Blow it out your ass! Aumauan scum!"  Thus marking the end of The Iroccian Age, and the beginning of Project Eternity.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Curses in CRPGs have been watered down as of late. You just chug some potion and then its over. That won't do. Curses should last for a lifetime and you need to get rid of it in some very logical, but horrific way. Like pouring lye on the corpse of the curser. Stephen King, I'm looking at you.

 

The same goes for poison. I think there's room for extremely strong potions that more or less kill you on the spot, or things that paralyze badly. I know there will be lots of reloads, but it certainly would enhance the RPG of it all. Imagine if Frodo did not get stung by Shelob by a potent poison. He just kept on going, hardly affected at all. That would have been boring, no?

Edited January 20, 2013 by IndiraLightfoot

[TRX850]

Well, I did consider the types of curses that might be appropriate, but ultimately it came down to considering a gamer's psyche, and that 95% of the time, even a veteran roleplayer will probably reload if they suspect it's going to take ages to cure.

 

It's one of the reasons why so many walkthroughs and item lists rage about cursed items. Either they were too heavily biased in one area, like bastard swords in IWD2 (I think?) or just too easy to cure.

 

I think the timer element is a good start at least. Sort of a ticking timebomb.

Edited January 20, 2013 by TRX850

[JFSOCC]

I tend to think of curses as blessings but with the wrong user.

Like Morrowinds boots of blinding speed. that's useful if you have blindsight and want to be fast. but if you're dependent on your eyes, then yes, obviously it's going to make you stumble, a lot.

Or a heavy sword which binds to your arm and unbinds with the right phrase. But you don't have the phrase,having killed the last guy who knew it. plus, the sword is too heavy for you and only drags you down. For the hill-giant you killed it might have been perfect.

Or a magical device which translates all your words to an arcane language which no-one understands anymore.

 

Items that under the right circumstances would be incredibly useful. But you are not the right circumstances.

[IndiraLightfoot]

My take is that getting rid of tough curses should be quests in themselves, coz TRX850 is of course right. The great majority of players would get annoyed.

JFSOCC: That's a milder kind of curse, cursed items with strange capacities for most players, but a blessing to a few. I like it!

[TRX850]

Items that under the right circumstances would be incredibly useful. But you are not the right circumstances.

 

That's not a bad idea.  You'd be stuck with it though. Unable to unequip the weapon/item, possibly for a long time.

[TRX850]

It brings me to a related point: Does the Identify spell undermine the Lore skill? Will there even be a Lore skill in P:E? If so, how will it be used?

 

If a Lore check was used for things other than learning item lore, what would they be?

[JOG]

I always found it strange that lore helps you to identify random items. Artifacts of legend yes, but where have you ever heard about that contemporary magic sword or that amulet from another world?

 

The lore skill's main application is social contacts: appropriate manners of the place your're in, and the people you meet. Matters of courtesy in different cultures also knowledge of history and folk stories and how they affect daily life. It allows you to fit into other societies (like a thief disguising as noble or a diplomat in a foreign country) and the understanding of historic backgrounds may help you to identify ancient writings, find secret doors, or recognize those strange bowls of fruit as offerings the tribal people make to terrible monsters.

 

Being able to identify the long-lost sword of Hrotgar Dragonbane because it's a very recognizable piece of ancient weaponcraft, and described in many old tales would be a nice side effect, if you find a newly forged mithral broadsword +1 / +5 vs dragons, though, you should only be able to identify the metal and the shape of the sword, and may be deduce that a dwarven craftsman (mithral) made it for a barbarian (broadsword) and that it's most likely of sentimental value, but unless there is some engraving describing the blade's purpose, lore won't be of much help to identify the enchantment.

Edited January 20, 2013 by JOG

[Nonek]

I'd prefer that cursed items be useful, very useful and that there use had no visible side effects at first, that they were not even stuck to the character. Yet with each use we are pulled more deeply into their possession, until we start to merge, perhaps then you could add the unremovable state. We could be ridden by dreams of the thing, and its uses would become more powerful not less, so that we rely on it like a crutch. Then at some point as we go to do something it does not particularly desire, we find we can't. "I can't let you do that Dave."

 

Then you figure out that the master/servant relationship has just changed, and it's time to seek out help or quest for salvation. maybe it's too late in the game however and you're doomed, or the symbiosis between you has become too deep, and the severing of those bonds hurts your character physically and mentally. Now that would be one hell of a choice and consequence.

[PrimeJunta]

Being able to identify the long-lost sword of Hrotgar Dragonbane because it's a very recognizable piece of ancient weaponcraft, and described in many old tales would be a nice side effect, if you find a newly forged mithral broadsword +1 / +5 vs dragons, though, you should only be able to identify the metal and the shape of the sword, and may be deduce that a dwarven craftsman (mithral) made it for a barbarian (broadsword) and that it's most likely of sentimental value, but unless there is some engraving describing the blade's purpose, lore won't be of much help to identify the enchantment.

 

There is a case to be made for a separate skill, which reflects your ability to identify and bestow enchantments. It would make more sense to connect your ability to identify magical weapons to your ability to craft them, for example, than to a catchall "Lore."

 

Maybe a master in Lore could identify an en-runed axe as The Valkyrie's Kiss, forged by Fane the Dwarf, forgemaster in Gubenheim, for the berserker Hrothfjellir Skullgrimsson to aid in his quest to slay Fastolf the Frost Dragon... but you'd need an enchantment master to divine that it provides frost resistance (30), +2 damage (+5 with armor penetration +10 against dragons).

[TRX850]

I'd prefer that cursed items be useful, very useful and that there use had no visible side effects at first, that they were not even stuck to the character. Yet with each use we are pulled more deeply into their possession, until we start to merge, perhaps then you could add the unremovable state. We could be ridden by dreams of the thing, and its uses would become more powerful not less, so that we rely on it like a crutch. Then at some point as we go to do something it does not particularly desire, we find we can't. "I can't let you do that Dave."

 

Then you figure out that the master/servant relationship has just changed, and it's time to seek out help or quest for salvation. maybe it's too late in the game however and you're doomed, or the symbiosis between you has become too deep, and the severing of those bonds hurts your character physically and mentally. Now that would be one hell of a choice and consequence.

 

Bonus points for 2001: A Space Odyssey reference.

 

Love your Avatar too btw. Another of my fave Sci-Fi films. Keep meaning to mention that.

 

I was thinking that this sounds a bit like an Intelligent Weapon crossover possibly? But yes, I do like the idea of useful vs devious vs dual-personality weapons and items.

 

Edit:

 

The main point was to eliminate the curse-and-reload moment from the equation by having a timer on the initial effect. You might still curse once you realise you've saved the cursed item in your last 2 or 3 saves, but at least it's not a traditional cursed weapon that severely penalizes combat or magic or social skills.

Edited January 20, 2013 by TRX850

[TRX850]

 

Being able to identify the long-lost sword of Hrotgar Dragonbane because it's a very recognizable piece of ancient weaponcraft, and described in many old tales would be a nice side effect, if you find a newly forged mithral broadsword +1 / +5 vs dragons, though, you should only be able to identify the metal and the shape of the sword, and may be deduce that a dwarven craftsman (mithral) made it for a barbarian (broadsword) and that it's most likely of sentimental value, but unless there is some engraving describing the blade's purpose, lore won't be of much help to identify the enchantment.

 

There is a case to be made for a separate skill, which reflects your ability to identify and bestow enchantments. It would make more sense to connect your ability to identify magical weapons to your ability to craft them, for example, than to a catchall "Lore."

 

Maybe a master in Lore could identify an en-runed axe as The Valkyrie's Kiss, forged by Fane the Dwarf, forgemaster in Gubenheim, for the berserker Hrothfjellir Skullgrimsson to aid in his quest to slay Fastolf the Frost Dragon... but you'd need an enchantment master to divine that it provides frost resistance (30), +2 damage (+5 with armor penetration +10 against dragons).

 

I was thinking about this too.

 

The problem in earlier games was the disproportionate number of skills per class, and their skill point allocation per level. If there was a rule of thumb that said if your class has access to 10 different skills on level up, you get maybe 5 or 6 skill points? Plus whatever ability bonus. Not sure if that's too high or low. I'm assuming the Chanter is an evolution of the Bard, but we haven't seen any details yet. Maybe they have an item lore bonus via their oral history skills?

Edited January 20, 2013 by TRX850

[maggotheart]

I think the problem with cursed items is that they're basically no fun (or annoying) and mostly everyone tries to avoid them and reloads if they can when they get one. How about having cursed items behave like the cursed shield in FF3/6: You choose to use a cursed item in order to eventually uncurse it and turn it into a good item. Unlock requirements could be a time limit or killing enough of a certain monster or whatever. This way it hands control of the experience to the player and rewards them for using the mechanic.

[TRX850]

The aspect I like is having the type of weapon or armour being randomly chosen by the game engine. You might sift through the aftermath of your vanquished foes, and grab a few weapons, including a +1 longsword, which turns out to be cursed 20 minutes later.

 

But on the next playthrough, there's no sign of that cursed longsword +1 at that location. But you did find an interesting halberd in the adjacent area, dropped by a gnoll chieftain. Alas, it turned out to be cursed.

 

But I think they could also randomly determine the type of curse, and how severe it is, just to keep it totally random with each playthrough. I think it would make it more interesting by *not knowing* what you're gonna get each playthrough.

 

I'm liking all your ideas too guys. Keep them coming.

Edited January 20, 2013 by TRX850

[Tomasp3n]

I think the best way to implement cursed items is to actually make the useful. For example in Baldurs Gate the Wizard at High hedge sold a ring (The hand of...some monster) which increased the users armot class and some resistances, but lowered others. That ring was always one of the first things I bought when I had the money. 

 

The way I see it, a cursed items should have serious drawbacks, but also some really nice bonuses. If you want to use it or not should be a choice, and preferably a pretty hard one. Items that drain your HP every time you hit an opponent in melee is probably not a good idea for a warrior, but a wizard could live with it if it had some nice other effects. 

 

I also like maggothearts idea about "uncursing" items. These items should have SERIOUS drawbacks, but be really powerful when their lust for power/blood is fulfilled. 

[Tagaziel]

I think that cursed items should be useful to an inventive player. In most games, curses are a synonym for broken items. P:E can subvert that, by eg. allowing to use cursed items in ways that actually benefit the player, such as giving a cursed robe/light armor that saps stamina to help them charge up their abilities (mortification of the flesh).

[IndiraLightfoot]

Cursed items I doubt people would want to find is things like in D&D way back: Boots of dancing. If you strapped them on, you had yourself dancing faster and faster til you died of exhaustion. In PE, no stamina anymore. Finito! That leads us to effects like: Enter an alluring portal, and "Poof" instant disintegration. I can see ironman mode peeps crying about that one!

[TRX850]

We need some examples of "useful" cursed items then. Items with a trade-off, where the perk benefits a class or play style, and the penalty might not matter so much.

 

That's one type of cursed item.

 

I still think the odd cursed item, with timer delay, that is a bit nasty, but allows you to mini-quest for the cure, should be an option too.

 

Pantaloons of Eternal Crotch Rot? Nooooooo!

[aVENGER]

Instead of finding purely harmful cursed items which would just result in the player reloading and not picking them up, I'd prefer if PE offered the player some incentive to actually consider using such items. Say, each cursed item could have some positive and some negative traits.

 

As a very simple example, take the Cursed Berserking Sword +3 from the original Baldur's Gate. It was a powerful weapon which could be obtained fairly early in the game, but it made the wielder go berserk and out of control during combat, unable to distinguish friend from foe. I'd like to see something similar in PE i.e. cursed items which have some serious drawbacks while simultaneously offering a few very tempting benefits.

[TRX850]

I remember that Cursed Berserking Sword. It was fun for a while, until Dynaheir or someone got whacked, but I get what you mean.  And the rage-and-reload thing is a very real problem, as mentioned, which usually means a design flaw, despite its initial creativity.

[maggotheart]

How about a set of cursed items that are tied to a quest - You find a cursed helmet, and while wearing it you get a sidequest to search for a sword, which is also cursed, and so forth, until you are wearing the entire cursed set which had been broken up when its previous owner was slain. Once the set is together you gain powers that more than offset the negatives of the curse. The quest then has you running off to get revenge on the descendants of those who killed the previous owner.

[IM GOD]

AND

 

What if the curse was dynamically calculated so that no two games had the same cursed items in the same locations? So walkthroughs wouldn't spoil the "fun" in advance.

 

This is possible. Though, it could lead to very generic curses on items, if they were even in at all. Unfortunately when you get into randomly generated content, you usually cannot go too far in depth with it. I am all for curses, though. As long as it is more embarrassing (as you said) or a minor inconvenience as opposed to being game-altering then it seems like a perfectly good idea. Hopefully there is some money in the budget for cool little things like that. 

[rjshae]

^^^^

Yup, you almost have to design an entire game around a cursed object for it to work well. Curses are much more interesting when they have a deep story behind them that the player can help resolve. Otherwise they're essentially just nuisance pranks.