Enemy Activity besides bashing you in the face

[Frenetic Pony]

Here's something about every IE game, every enemy just sits there and waits for nothing until you come along and bash them in the face.

 

It might be nice to see them doing other things. One obvious oversight was no alert from noise, drawing enemies out via aggro was a very effective strategy. Having one that sees you yell, and draw others seems needed so you can't clear out an entire building/cave of them by aggroing one by one.

 

But beyond that having the enemies do something little might be interesting. Have patrols wandering around, drinking ale, sleeping, etc. Just to give them a bit of life beyond targets waiting for you to stomp on them, and maybe have some interesting combat scenarios. Patrols might be bad for someone scouting with stealth, or easy to get past if they're sleeping. Maybe the enemies aren't armed and have to rush over to get their weapons? Catching them all at once by charging straight in might be better in that scenario. A lot of little stuff could be done.

[TRX850]

I can imagine a hobgoblin camp where they're sitting around playing drinking games, or rock-paper-scissors.

 

(or maybe that should be rock-parchment-dagger?)

[Malevolent]

Having drinking games and down time would be amazing.

 

Imagine the strange, mundane, and hilarious dialogues you might be able to interrupt. Perhaps if you successfully sneak into something of these encampments during their downtime and get a certain distance in, it can trigger a dialogue window?

[Lephys]

What would be great is if they used the same tactics on you. Luring and all that. Like a surprise party gone terribly wrong, 8D.

 

Not that that hasn't ever been done before in an RPG. It would just still be great.

 

But, as to what they're doing when you come upon them, I think that's an excellent area to implement the "your specific actions can produce all manner of effects" idea. Maybe they're sitting around talking about something, and if you actually listen for a minute instead of running in and killing them, you hear valuable information (treasure, creature movements, clues to some stash or artifact or weapon, incriminating info on some noble guy in town, etc.). But, it's a time-sensitive thing. They don't just strike up a conversation about super useful info the second you come upon them, so you don't really know until you say "Hey, they're talking about stuff... I wonder what all they talk about." Sort of like... combat exploration.

 

When exploring the environment, you're often given clues as to secret doors, or you see a path that looks reachable/traversable, even if you don't know where it leads. I think it would be interesting for combat situations, rather than just "when/how should we attack?"

[JFSOCC]

What would be great is if they used the same tactics on you. Luring and all that. Like a surprise party gone terribly wrong, 8D.

As long as I can respond alternatively when I see it. I'm always pissed off when I see a betrayal coming from a mile away and HAVE to go through it if I want to proceed with the game, and then the game shouts in your face "HAH YOU IDIOT YOU DIDN'T SEE THAT COMING DID YOU!?"

[TrashMan]

Stuff like drinking, using enviroment objects, sleeping...all of that can technicly be added with a bit of scripting and randomization

 

Actual AI is a bit trickier.

 

Have hobogoblins act like the organized, militarized bunch that they are. Let the mform a shield wall and chuck javelins at you. Let their commander yell orders.

Have dragons use their abiltiy of flight to butcher you from the skies and keep away from your swords and axes, laughing all the way at the stupid human that challened it.

Have sea-dwelling creatures try to drag you into the water, where they have the natural advantage.

 

In other words, the devs should think about how a specific enemy would act and then implement it.

Is it cowardly? Organized? Smart? Animalistic? Patient? What abilities does it have?

 

Have the enemy act as one would reasonably expect - do that and there's no need for HP bonuses and excessive scaling.

[HansKrSG]

Many good ideas here. I like it. Just have to add that I am very in agreement with JFSOOC, I really hate it when I feel forced to trust an npc that I understaned from the start is bad business to get further in the plot, and then when the inevetable betrayal comes along, the devs have written it as you are an idiot for trusting the npc in the first place. Damn irritating.

[rjshae]

Sensible group AI behavior is probably difficult to implement because there are so many interactions to take into account; increasing as n-squared. But it might be reasonable to implement a type of cooperative AI based upon the nearest neighbor's behavior. I.e. find your nearest neighbors within a certain radius, see what they are doing, then give a percentage chance to cooperate with one of them. If the neighbor is badly damaged, the character could counter-attack his attacker. If the nearest neighbor is charging an opponent, then join in the charge. If the nearest neighbor is an archer that is being melee attacked, battle the opponent so the archer can withdraw. &c.

[Helm]

Here's something about every IE game, every enemy just sits there and waits for nothing until you come along and bash them in the face.

I always loved it when the super mutants scratched their butts while waiting. I thought that was quite amusing. ^^

[Osvir]

Stuff like drinking, using enviroment objects, sleeping...all of that can technicly be added with a bit of scripting and randomization

 

Actual AI is a bit trickier.

 

Have hobogoblins act like the organized, militarized bunch that they are. Let the mform a shield wall and chuck javelins at you. Let their commander yell orders.

Have dragons use their ability of flight to butcher you from the skies and keep away from your swords and axes, laughing all the way at the stupid human that challened it.

Have sea-dwelling creatures try to drag you into the water, where they have the natural advantage.

 

In other words, the devs should think about how a specific enemy would act and then implement it.

Is it cowardly? Organized? Smart? Animalistic? Patient? What abilities does it have?

 

Have the enemy act as one would reasonably expect - do that and there's no need for HP bonuses and excessive scaling.

Liking your post mate, just want that to be highlighted. Perhaps not for this thread~ don't want "Flying Enemies" to be forgotten. Harpies could perhaps try to lift you up and drop you, and if they do, you die (unless you can create some "Cushion" spell, before they fall into it). Or place a strong Aumaua to catch them xD Idunno.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Not to mention creatures messing with our minds or getting into our dreams, there will be ciphers and souls after all.

[Lephys]

Sensible group AI behavior is probably difficult to implement because there are so many interactions to take into account; increasing as n-squared. But it might be reasonable to implement a type of cooperative AI based upon the nearest neighbor's behavior. I.e. find your nearest neighbors within a certain radius, see what they are doing, then give a percentage chance to cooperate with one of them. If the neighbor is badly damaged, the character could counter-attack his attacker. If the nearest neighbor is charging an opponent, then join in the charge. If the nearest neighbor is an archer that is being melee attacked, battle the opponent so the archer can withdraw. &c.

 

True, but if you have it as a series of branches (and only "ping" for changes in factors every few seconds or so, so enemies aren't changing tactics every .2 seconds), it shouldn't be too much trouble for modern computers. It could still be pretty basic stuff, really. It's just being checked/computed really, really fast.

[Kaz]

Maybe the enemies aren't armed and have to rush over to get their weapons?

 

This crossed my mind before. I can see a thief sneaking into a storage room and sabotaging some of the enemy arsenal by drenching it with a corrosive potion or something, which would force the enemy to rely on their dinky side arms. It would be a fun little way for a stealth oriented party to weaken the enemy.

Edited January 22, 2013 by Kaz

[AGX-17]

So, basically, you're asking for Bethesda's Radiant AI which caused so many problems in so many games, and likely will for the foreseeable future?

Edited January 22, 2013 by AGX-17

[Osvir]

Dishonored's AI. Great for both combat and stealth. Is that "Radiant" as well?

Guard 1: Has one path
Guard 2: Has another path

X = Interaction
Y = Taking a piss
A = Time
B = Player interaction

When they intersect (X) their own paths = Guard 1 & Guard 2 talks or just stops and stares at each other. Perhaps waving their arms indicating that they are talking, if you are close enough perhaps you can hear some grunts and in the [Dialouge Tab] you can read a dialogue. Also a great time to pass quickly by, as they are distracted.

When Guard 1 or Guard 2 walks on trigger Y = Doing something, admiring a painting, taking a piss. Standing still, looking at something else, allowing the player to pass or take them out non-lethaly as they are "alone". Being able to pick up bodies and then place them somewhere.

B = Throwing a rock, making them look that way. Confusion spells, switching clothes and being able to talk to the Guards as well (Undercover-Mode).

Faction Activity

* Minor Faction: The Goblin Tribe you slayed in Chapter 1 had friends, and is now back and are pillaging the lands in rage, attacking villages and trying to find you. So in Chapter 2, Goblins are rougher. Player Action versus Player Consequence. In Dishonored the Guards become rougher in my opinion, playing a Very High Chaos path, though having 4-5 Guards on you in Dishonored was pretty rough by itself. 

* Major Faction(s): With or without your intervention, Factions weighing war on each other over the course of time. Besieging towns etc. etc. so if you don't do anything about it you could find yourself in the middle of a battle, whilst you are traveling from one location to another. Or one Faction won, and is now controlling more cities. You'd be unknown. Of course you could just aid one side from the Shadows, from Business or by Battle. Or perhaps just plain simply, do nothing and pursue another goal/path/profession/Faction instead of engaging in the war (Like joining the Druids). Stay out of it or stay into it. Witnesses could tell a story of a band of warriors appearing from nowhere and took out everyone (which could make both Factions somewhat join forces to find out who you are, still at war with each other ofc). Or just nothing about you, if you didn't engage in it.

Chapter by Chapter enemy activity. What do they do in Chapter 1, did they react to your passing and now does something different in Chapter 2?

Enemy Adventurer Gangs
Dynamic, having rivalry Quest trees. Either you meet them on your way, or perhaps you meet them as they failed a difficult dungeon and went and died. Or you meet them by accident on the road and fight them off. Dynamic Enemies that travel the lands, similar to how a faction could fight another faction. But in some ways the single Assassin doesn't wait for you to go to sleep in a specific city, but actively hunts you and you could perhaps even notice something stalking in the Fog of War if you pay attention (being very difficult to see).

Monster Enemies
Depends on the Monster. Dreams. Shadows. What kind of activity do they have? Soul draining. Soul invading. Infecting. Could a monster infect someone with a disease and it could spread into a city?

[Utukka]

I always viewed this as a nonissue and here's why.

1) I assume they were doing something before hand rather than just waiting for me in that room.

2) I'm following a story, this is NOT a living world, these people are *destined* to be in there at that time, patrolling this area, guarding this area, it doesn't matter if one dropped a deuce beforehand, his part in this story is to be in that room or region at this time based upon w/e ingame reasoning/"my actions".

3) Yes it makes sense for them to call for help, but it's like when you attack a place in BG or any other game, wouldn't it be more effective to fall back and attack as a whole group rather than come at you in pairs/small groups? The entire castle/cave/hall/whatever, would come to life if a group of 6 people were blasting through yet it would be near impossible for a party to kill an entire "army" at one or two fights. Unless of course the developers intent was to let you steamroll everything.

 

The point is, you're roleplaying within their story which requires certain things for balance/narrative. I have no problem striving for more realism or more choice, but regardless, your outcome is what the developers have determined is the correct outcome for said path.

Edited January 22, 2013 by Utukka

[Hormalakh]

One game that did this particularly well was Thief. You got a lot of universe exposition from guards just talking to each other. Not all of it was game relevant, but it made the game so much more alive.

 

"Hey, you going to the bear fights tomorrow?"

 

It's a great way to give some exposition to players who are interested.

[TrashMan]

So, basically, you're asking for Bethesda's Radiant AI which caused so many problems in so many games, and likely will for the foreseeable future?

 

 

I find even that superior to brainded enemies with no AI or personality to speak off

[JFSOCC]

One game that did this particularly well was Thief. You got a lot of universe exposition from guards just talking to each other. Not all of it was game relevant, but it made the game so much more alive.

 

"Hey, you going to the bear fights tomorrow?"

 

It's a great way to give some exposition to players who are interested.

I prefer interactive story telling to exposition dialogue most of the time. One of those games which I thought had a great visual narrative was Riven, that game told you so much without speaking a word. (save at some key parts)

You'd be able to deduce Gehn was a megalomaniacal bastard simply from the temple he build, and the glass panes showing his worship. Or a chair with buttons which allowed him to sacrifice people he didn't like to the local wildlife. (from an elevated position as behoves a lord or a god.)

 

that said, a little exposition is perfectly fine, especially as the alternative is ever silent and professional guards.

[Hormalakh]

The whole world should be an exposition. It shouldn't be limited to "guard conversations" nor solely to "images you find on a wall." I was just trying to fit this exposition idea to the topic at hand: enemy activity.