Planescape: Torment successor announced. Set in Numenera universe.

[NerdBoner]

numenera setting has potential...

[alanschu]

Out of curiosity, how would people feel if they dropped the Torment name and simply referenced it in the Kickstarter?

 

 

I'd prefer it.

 

There's nothing stopping Project Eternity from delivering an experience we all find as memorable as Planescape: Torment.

 

 

Themes and ideas transcend games. What I loved about Planescape: Torment was it took me by surprise and did things I hadn't seen before. Making a second game and stating it's THE sequel and will be using the same themes seems contradictory to what I liked about Torment.

 

I'd prefer all my RPG games to have 90% of the things that Fargo described (vague things like well written characters. Really... *that* is a defining feature of Torment, so if you're going to do a game like that then it's a "Torment" game?).

 

I just feel like they'll constantly be having to determine "is this Torment quality?" over production that it'll ultimately undermine it. Doubly so if they allow as much fan involvement as they have with Wasteland 2.

 

 

Its a game based on the Torment concepts and narrative idea's so they need to keep the name Torment

 

The only unique concept I think you can identify as a "Torment theme" is the idea of looking at what it means to be alive and so forth. And that's not unique to Planescape: Torment. PST just did it really well. There's so much well done by PST that should be in a lot more RPGs as far as I'm concerned, and it has nothing to do with a "Torment theme."

 

 

I'm fine with them using the Torment name. Bioshock was used as the name for the spiritual successor to System Shock. If Fargo picked up the rights for "Torment," may as well use it.

 

See, for me, it meant I was measuring up how well BioShock would hold up against System Shock 2. It failed, and IMO took a game that was otherwise pretty decent and left me disappointed instead.

 

 

I didn't need any sort of frame of reference to compare Planescape: Torment to when I played it. It was unique and fantastic. Game mechanics are more easily shared (which is why I like Obsidian's pitch), but going from there is more restrictive IMO.

[Nightshape]

Not really anything to do with Torment, just a game with people who worked on some elements of Torment.

 

It's a bit attention whorey if you ask me.

[Mamoulian War]

Planescape: Torment was called that because torment was a central theme of the plot. Is this game going to have the same plot? It makes **** all sense to me personally.

 

Because torment can be described again only by the same plot... makes sense...

Edited January 22, 2013 by Mamoulian War

[Dream]

 

Planescape: Torment was called that because torment was a central theme of the plot. Is this game going to have the same plot? It makes **** all sense to me personally.

 

Because torment can be described again only by the same plot... makes sense...

Sorry if I don't have too much confidence in the writing abilities of a group of people who are just aping the story of their spiritual predecessor so they can use the same name and call it a "sequel."

[Mamoulian War]

 

 

Planescape: Torment was called that because torment was a central theme of the plot. Is this game going to have the same plot? It makes **** all sense to me personally.

 

Because torment can be described again only by the same plot... makes sense...

Sorry if I don't have too much confidence in the writing abilities of a group of people who are just aping the story of their spiritual predecessor so they can use the same name and call it a "sequel."

 

None of them ever called it a "sequel"...

 

And they did not give it the same name either...

 

You are forgiven...

Edited January 22, 2013 by Mamoulian War

[Oner]

Don't know about the Torment part, but after reading up on Numenera, I'm happy someone's making a game in that setting.

[Zoraptor]

Yeah, I don't think anyone should have concerns about the setting, those involved have shown they're very good at that part- it's mainly that the writers for this were mostly involved in the Plansescape part of PST, not the Torment part, so there's still the possibility of having a good setting but poor story execution.

[Tsuga C]

 

inXile will be developing a spiritual successor to Planescape: Torment set in Monte Cook's kickstarted Numenera universe.

Chris Avellone does not seem to be working on the project, although he gave his blessing and recommended several key figures currently involved.

Thoughts?

Truth be told, I'd be overjoyed with a true sequel set in the Planescape multiverse, but this just leaves me cold.  Heck, I'd even be happy with a re-release of the original game with modern 3-D graphics, a few new areas to explore, and digital re-mastery of the original soundtrack and dialogue.

 

Planescape is a setting that offered so much for a DM willing to take a chance and let the story flow to lands unforeseen and strip away the opaque veils of the planar philosophies to reveal all the glory or horror that lay beneath.  Sometimes both, heh.  It was a setting that deserved much more time and appreciation, a setting chocked full of all the goodness of an enthusiatic beer 'n' liquor-fueled college bull session and the personal insights and revelations--right questions asked with right tact and timing--could blossom forth in waves of weal and woe.  I miss that milieu.

Edited January 23, 2013 by Tsuga C

[Dream]

None of them ever called it a "sequel"...

 

And they did not give it the same name either...

 

You are forgiven...

They never disputed the interviewer when he called it a sequel multiple times. Also they did refer to Torment as a franchise (apparently one standalone game last century makes a franchise).

 

As for naming it the same: yea, they did. They've said multiple times they're going to name it Torment.

 

After many years the rights expired and allowed me to step in and put together a great team to make another title of its kind. We will improve on the mechanics and deliver a deep narrative story that is deserving of the name Torment.

So basically the only thing stopping them from making a game with a "deep narrative story" for over a decade was the fact they couldn't piggyback on the Torment name, but now that the rights have expired it's full steam ahead. My bad for feeling skeptical.

Edited January 23, 2013 by Dream

[Malekith]

 

None of them ever called it a "sequel"...

 

And they did not give it the same name either...

 

You are forgiven...

They never disputed the interviewer when he called it a sequel multiple times. Also they did refer to Torment as a franchise (apparently one standalone game last century makes a franchise).

 

As for naming it the same: yea, they did. They've said multiple times they're going to name it Torment.

 

>>>After many years the rights expired and allowed me to step in and put together a great team to make another title of its kind. We will improve on the mechanics and deliver a deep narrative story that is deserving of the name Torment.

So basically the only thing stopping them from making a game with a "deep narrative story" for over a decade was the fact they couldn't piggyback on the Torment name, but now that the rights have expired it's full steam ahead. My bad for feeling skeptical.

 

No, it was the fact that there was no Kickstarter back then

Edited January 23, 2013 by Malekith

[Dream]

 

So basically the only thing stopping them from making a game with a "deep narrative story" for over a decade was the fact they couldn't piggyback on the Torment name, but now that the rights have expired it's full steam ahead. My bad for feeling skeptical.

No, it was the fact that there was no Kickstarter back then

Kickstarter has been around since '09, and crowdfunding for even longer than that.

 

Besides the answer I quoted specifically states that they were waiting for the rights to expire.

[TSBasilisk]

Crowdfunding was around, but on a smaller scale. Only recently have there been large-scale successes proven it can fund video game production. Traditionally, developers are reliant on publishers for funds, and publishers will only green-light a product they think will sell. Not a ground-breaking product, or even a good one; just one that will sell. Factor in sky-rocketing costs from the graphics race, and they played it even safer. Niche genres suffer as a result, because they have a smaller following and thus buyer base; if the publisher thinks that making the game will cost more than they'll make in sales, why fund it? And isometric RPGs that make you question the nature of consciousness... it's hard to get more niche.

 

Consider this: As early as 2003, inXile purchased the rights to Wastelands, and in 2007 was making noise about producing a sequel. But it didn't happen, probably because publishers wouldn't touch an isometric RPG, even one about a nuclear holocaust. Fast forward five years, and suddenly publishers aren't the only way to fund their dream project. This also paves the way for them to have some more freedom in focusing effort on a story without a publisher pushing them for more "Wow!" factor.

 

After all, would you really want the Torment brand revived by a developer meeting the demands of a publisher who expects a Diablo-killer? Or Mass Effect-killer?

[BruceVC]

After all, would you really want the Torment brand revived by a developer meeting the demands of a publisher who expects a Diablo-killer? Or Mass Effect-killer?

Hell no, that just wouldn't be Torment.

[Dream]

I wouldn't want the Torment "brand" to be revived by anyone who's looking to just cash in on the name. If you want to make an RPG that takes place in a quirky setting and has a "deep narrative story" then go for it, but don't call it Torment just to stir up hype by association.

Edited January 23, 2013 by Dream

[BruceVC]

I wouldn't want the Torment "brand" to be revived by anyone who's looking to just cash in on the name. If you want to make an RPG that takes place in a quirky setting and has a "deep narrative story" then go for it, but don't call it Torment just to stir up hype by association.

 

 

To be honest this concern has been addressed by Brian Fargo in the interview. He explains that the new Torment will follow similar grandiose themes to Planescape like the meaning of life, extra-planetary entities, the ability to traverse the planes and allow  the character to visit bizarre and outlandish destinations. I am playing Planescape at the moment and this type of content encapsulates the Torment theme perfectly

 

So no need to worry

Edited January 23, 2013 by BruceVC

[Dream]

To be honest this concern has been addressed by Brian Fargo in the interview. He explains that the new Torment will follow similar grandiose themes to Planescape like the meaning of life, extra-planetary entities, the ability to traverse the planes and allow  the character to visit bizarre and outlandish destinations. I am playing Planescape at the moment and this type of content encapsulates the Torment theme perfectly

 

 

So no need to worry

That type of content encapsulates the Planescape theme perfectly, but it has jack **** to do with torment.

 

If you're making a spiritual successor then call it that, but don't tell me you're making the next Torment and then say "well it actually takes place in a different setting, doesn't have the same characters, won't have any actual links at all really to the last game, but since we're now calling Torment a 'thematic franchise' we feel it's accurate for us to call this the next Torment!"

[Oerwinde]

 

To be honest this concern has been addressed by Brian Fargo in the interview. He explains that the new Torment will follow similar grandiose themes to Planescape like the meaning of life, extra-planetary entities, the ability to traverse the planes and allow  the character to visit bizarre and outlandish destinations. I am playing Planescape at the moment and this type of content encapsulates the Torment theme perfectly

 

So no need to worry

That type of content encapsulates the Planescape theme perfectly, but it has jack **** to do with torment.

 

If you're making a spiritual successor then call it that, but don't tell me you're making the next Torment and then say "well it actually takes place in a different setting, doesn't have the same characters, won't have any actual links at all really to the last game, but since we're now calling Torment a 'thematic franchise' we feel it's accurate for us to call this the next Torment!"

Again, this is just like the Final Fantasy franchise. Every game has a different setting, different characters, even different game mechanics. But they are still Final Fantasy games because they have similar themes and re-use certain concepts and names. Basically they have the same "feel".

 

Essentially exactly what they are describing for this.

[BruceVC]

 

To be honest this concern has been addressed by Brian Fargo in the interview. He explains that the new Torment will follow similar grandiose themes to Planescape like the meaning of life, extra-planetary entities, the ability to traverse the planes and allow  the character to visit bizarre and outlandish destinations. I am playing Planescape at the moment and this type of content encapsulates the Torment theme perfectly

 

So no need to worry

That type of content encapsulates the Planescape theme perfectly, but it has jack **** to do with torment.

 

If you're making a spiritual successor then call it that, but don't tell me you're making the next Torment and then say "well it actually takes place in a different setting, doesn't have the same characters, won't have any actual links at all really to the last game, but since we're now calling Torment a 'thematic franchise' we feel it's accurate for us to call this the next Torment!"

 

 

I don't agree with you but I suppose this depends on what defines a Torment game for you. All the points I mentioned are what characterizes a Torment game for me, if a developer choses to build the story on those themes then I don't mind if the game is called Forgotten Realms: Torment, Dragon Age: Torment or Numenera: Torment. The world used just needs to be suitable for this type of narrative

 

They can create new characters and themes that you will get to love and cherish

[Theobeau]

Before this thread, I didn't know about the recent Fargo interview so thanks to the posters for for linking it. Like many here, a huge PST fan and was initially very intrigued and a little concerned by the contradictory and incomplete rumours swirling around that the game was going to be revived.

 

After reading the article I'm reassured that Fargo has acknowledged the concerns of term PST fans, has stated that he is planning to get WL2 more "out there" before switching focus to the new game and that he is aware of the suspicions among fans that devs are over reliant on Kickstarter to fund their projects (looking at some famous Brit developers here....)

 

Having done a bit of reading of the Numenera setting, it does sound like an idea setting for a in depth cRPG exploration of deeper philosophical themes relating to our purpose and existence.  Whether such a game needs to fall under the rubric of a Torment game is still unclear to me. 

 

It is though Planescape Torment is shorthand for a a cRPG experience that is well written, deeply character driven and philosophically and intellectually dense. Looking as it took me some 20 secs to type it out (!) I guess I can understand why it is easier to say (and market) such a title as "the spiritual successor to Planescape Torment".

 

As long as the new title doesn't actually devalue the original experience by over-doing the links to the original or overusing cliched references, call-outs (anyone see a Morte-style wise-cracking companion here) or easter eggs than I'll happily get involved with the inevitable KS project.

 

A case of watch this space.....

[Mamoulian War]

 

None of them ever called it a "sequel"...

 

And they did not give it the same name either...

 

You are forgiven...

They never disputed the interviewer when he called it a sequel multiple times. Also they did refer to Torment as a franchise (apparently one standalone game last century makes a franchise).

 

As for naming it the same: yea, they did. They've said multiple times they're going to name it Torment.

 

>After many years the rights expired and allowed me to step in and put together a great team to make another title of its kind. We will improve on the mechanics and deliver a deep narrative story that is deserving of the name Torment.

So basically the only thing stopping them from making a game with a "deep narrative story" for over a decade was the fact they couldn't piggyback on the Torment name, but now that the rights have expired it's full steam ahead. My bad for feeling skeptical.

 

 

But they never called it a sequel, it was the interviewers... That's a FACT...

 

Planescape: Torment != Numenera: Torment... Different names... That's FACT as well...

 

Your argument is thus invalid...

[Dream]

 

Again, this is just like the Final Fantasy franchise. Every game has a different setting, different characters, even different game mechanics. But they are still Final Fantasy games because they have similar themes and re-use certain concepts and names. Basically they have the same "feel".

 

Essentially exactly what they are describing for this.

 

Except the FF franchise was like that from the very beginning with a new game coming out every 1-2 years. Taking a game from the last century that never had a sequel and all of a sudden claiming that NOW it's a thematic franchise is slightly different.

 

 

 

But they never called it a sequel, it was the interviewers... That's a FACT...

 

Planescape: Torment != Numenera: Torment... Different names... That's FACT as well...

 

Your argument is thus invalid...

Really, that's your argument? That's really cute.

 

 

[alanschu]

But they never called it a sequel, it was the interviewers... That's a FACT...

 

Planescape: Torment != Numenera: Torment... Different names... That's FACT as well...

 

Your argument is thus invalid...

 

Channeling your inner Volourn?

 

A game with the themes he has listed (especially some of them.... "Well written characters?"  Really?) doesn't need to be called Torment.  It's a former CEO of a big game developer talking here: if he calls it Torment, he gets more money.  The same reasons that companies like Activision and Electronic Arts push sequels as much as they do.  The only difference is he's making a calling out to a different group (one that is more starved for their style of games) and will ask them to fund it.  Though it's becoming increasingly apparently that people actually have no issue at all with the big publishers pushing out sequel after sequel.  The only issue they have is whether or not they are pushing out sequels of games that they want.

 

There's no reason to expect that Project Eternity won't deliver on most (if not all) of the same themes that Fargo wants his Torment franchise to have (I think it will).  Project Eternity's pitch is superior because they leveraged the Infinity Engine as a frame of reference from a mechanical and presentation perspective.  The story and ideas that they are coming up with are new and creative.  It should be noted that Planescape: Torment used the Infinity Engine for its mechanics and presentation, with the story and ideas contained within the game being new and creative.

 

 

You can split hairs about is this really a "sequel" all you want, but by calling this Torment people are going to be picking it up hoping for an experience that is similar to Torment.  For myself, a large part of that experience was that it was new and creative and I had limited expectation.  Defining what it means for a game to be "Torment" and then stating that you will make a game that does the things that Torment does (including, paradoxically, breaking down RPG tropes which Torment has now contributed to).  My fear more lies in the self-critique of "Is this content we just made really Torment enough" rather than just going out and making the game that you want to make without constraints on what the content can be.

[BruceVC]

 

But they never called it a sequel, it was the interviewers... That's a FACT...

 

Planescape: Torment != Numenera: Torment... Different names... That's FACT as well...

 

Your argument is thus invalid...

 

 

 

.  It's a former CEO of a big game developer talking here: if he calls it Torment, he gets more money.  The same reasons that companies like Activision and Electronic Arts push sequels as much as they do.  The only difference is he's making a calling out to a different group (one that is more starved for their style of games) and will ask them to fund it. 

 

 

Alan thats a little cynical. Fargo is making games for our entertainment, revenue is probably his last consideration. He is also doing it for the kids, its all for the kids and the enjoyment on there little faces when they see the words "Torment " on the game as they take it out of the wrapping paper.

 

This whole thing about the importance of sequels can be confusing, but trust me if you worked for a large, international software company then you would see that its not just the fact that the game is a sequel but its the content that matters and resonates with fans 

Edited January 24, 2013 by BruceVC

[Dream]

Alan thats a little cynical. Fargo is making games for our entertainment, revenue is probably his last consideration. He is also doing it for the kids, its all for the kids and the enjoyment on there little faces when they see the words "Torment " on the game as they take it out of the wrapping paper.

 

This whole thing about the importance of sequels can be confusing, but trust me if you worked for a large, international software company then you would see that its not just the fact that the game is a sequel but its the content that matters and resonates with fans 

 

He runs a company; revenue is his first consideration, by far.