Update #34: FIRST ART UPDATE

[IndiraLightfoot]

A frigging awesome update! That's the sh**, man! And, darn, those smelly Aragorn/hobo men of the woods with long, greasy hair keep pouring in!

 

These two Aumaua resemble an ogre mage with stage ambitions and a crazed companion of questionable repute who recently escaped from a shady travelling circus with Jenka-hopping bears and a strictly looney dress code. Me f**king like!!

 

A personal wish of mine is a more gritty-looking and ominous world. Somehow, those NPCs and the houses seem to be more RTS-material than mature RPG-stuff. Obviously, they are just protypes of prototypes, and music and lighting will make a huge difference if tweaked correctly, but still a very mild concern of mine.

 

P.S. I bloody hope that Rob will do all the updates from now on. Nuff said!

Edited December 5, 2012 by IndiraLightfoot

[Rob Nesler]

Hm, I'd be curious to know what your reasons for choosing Maya were. Do you require all your artists to use it, or are they free to use whatever package they like? I'm a modo user but its current lack of game art support is slightly annoying, but the awesome modelling tools make up for it. Mostly.

 

Oh also, does obsidian use outsourcing? Just out of curiosity. Worked well for Bethesda with Brink, 3 Point Studios are awesome.

Unity supports asset creation by Maya in a much friendlier way. Artist's are allowed to use the tools they feel most comfortable in for Modeling, UV's, etc., but the decision has been made that everything goes through Maya on it's way into the game. Certainly the animation assets will be created entirely in Maya, unless Motion Builder is needed for anything, but the same rule applies: Maya is the export platform for all assets.

[cyberarmy]

Whyyeee....!1!

 

Lovely and funny update. Really liked this one especially "large boned" wizard and "The Almighty +3 Medicine Ball Flail"! Now ı really want to see that in game as an easter egg now. Maybe a huge wereshark wielding it and wrecks us to eternity?

[Rob Nesler]

Ha, nice. Thank you for the update. But...

 

Cloth physics? WTF? That's a lot of detail for teeny tiny figures.

 

Love the artwork. That building looks almost old spanish in style. It just needs a clothes line and a TV antenna... oh, wait.

Our effort is to advance the visual experience to modern expectations, but still remaining close to the traditional expectations of game play. We are using a massive 2D image that is trivial to draw for desktops these days, if the data is managed properly. So there is graphics bandwidth left over for 3d assets to behave more realistically. Even if the motions are subtle, they will enrich the experience. Also, we don't want to use animator time to manage cape movement through all frames of all animations, if we don't have to.

[Jumble Murdersense]

Unity supports asset creation by Maya in a much friendlier way. Artist's are allowed to use the tools they feel most comfortable in for Modeling, UV's, etc., but the decision has been made that everything goes through Maya on it's way into the game. Certainly the animation assets will be created entirely in Maya, unless Motion Builder is needed for anything, but the same rule applies: Maya is the export platform for all assets.

 

Thanks for the answer! Is baking (normal maps) done in maya too? The recently released (beta) of Handplane has maya import / unity export, so bonus points if you guys use this (or some other method) to get 100% synched normals (assuming you'll be using tangent space normal maps, which is a pretty safe assumption)

[Rob Nesler]

do you think you guys could include the medicine ball flail in the final project? as like a hidden joke weapon?

I let designers manage these kind of decisions.

[Sedrefilos]

Everything looks just great. I was expecting such a detailed graphics work since they've done something similar in TOEE (and it was almost breathtaking when i saw that for a 2004 game), but now I'm reassured this is going to be great technically (cause i know for sure it will be awsome rpgilly ).

 

Keep up the great work and the updates coming

 

PS. I'd like to see an update from Chris Avellone some day soon tbh

[Rob Nesler]

Unity supports asset creation by Maya in a much friendlier way. Artist's are allowed to use the tools they feel most comfortable in for Modeling, UV's, etc., but the decision has been made that everything goes through Maya on it's way into the game. Certainly the animation assets will be created entirely in Maya, unless Motion Builder is needed for anything, but the same rule applies: Maya is the export platform for all assets.

 

Thanks for the answer! Is baking (normal maps) done in maya too? The recently released (beta) of Handplane has maya import / unity export, so bonus points if you guys use this (or some other method) to get 100% synched normals (assuming you'll be using tangent space normal maps, which is a pretty safe assumption)

Maya is one of the tools that we can use to create normal maps. We'll check out Handplane. Thanks!

[Rob Nesler]

Oh one last question: Why did you guys decide to change over to Maya? Especially, now that the artists have a learning curve to overcome, was there some greater benefit gained by using Maya? If I'm not mistaken Maya is better in building characters/creatures, but it's been a long time since I worked in 3D modeling.

 

Besides, I don't think Prosper works in Maya, so I wasn't sure if that was the reason or....

Unity has a much tighter integration with Maya, which is going to make asset iteration much quicker.

[tox1c5lug]

Wow, I am surprised by the level of detail.

[WorstUsernameEver]

For instance, see the Project Eternity thread over at Neogaf freaking about the concept art.

 

Granted, I would like to see more colorful and diverse styles of concept art from some different artists. The concept art and portraits that have been released for Wasteland 2 have been amazing. With time, I'd like to see more stuff like that for Project Eternity, as opposed to the black and white, character on blank backdrop drawings.

 

GAF is prone to exaggeration, but if the gist of it is that the art direction so far has proven to be uninspired, then I can't say I disagree. I understand that the devs are shooting for familiarity, but the concept art is indistinguishable from tons of other fantasy universes. I don't need super wacky, but I'm seriously hoping that they'll polish it up. It pales in comparison to titles such as Dark Souls and The Witcher 2 (titles that could be argued are set in a generic fantasy universe, but certainly recognizable at first glance), nevermind that so far, it doesn't even look on par to Icewind Dale, Baldur's Gate or Skyrim. It's at least better than Oblivion, though.

[alanschu]

It looks to me like they are in pretty heavy duty prototyping, which makes sense especially if they are ramping up on new tools. According to Rob's update, it looks like there is ONE concept artist actually doing concepting right now. Which means the concepts will be, well, concepts. As opposed to full on materials for marketing.

 

 

As awesome as the WL2 Ranger Squad concept art is to look at, I'd argue it's more important for a marketing/buzz piece than something reflective for in game. Until you're doing the prototyping in engine, it's still just out of game concepting.

 

 

I'm personally impressed that their already willing to show off in game assets even if they are WIP. At this stage I'm already pretty confident.

[Luridis]

if (headHat.Count == 0)

this.headHat = HatStyles.SmartAssHat;

 

Picture #1 makes me all waaa for two reasons. There's no lanterns above the doors! How do you expect me to have doors with no lanterns?! Less important is the lack of a green astroturf wipe-your-feet mat that makes you cuss like a sailor when you forget and step out on it in bare feet.

 

Picture #2 makes me all ho-hum. I mean seriously?! A wonder-wo(man) class? I'm not down with the whole twirling thing and golden lassos aren't my idea of sexy restraints.

 

Picture #3 makes me all whyyee?! The targeting circle doesn't appear parallel with the ground plane. And, the evil shrubs aren't pathing around the wall to get to him; they're just standing there lookin all shrubby.

 

Picture #4 WTF?! Christo Rendentor? Best to leave RL religions out of video games, you never know who'll be offended and burn down embassy. (Oh, yes I did.)

 

Picture #5 URRRR! OMG Michael Lee Aday! I love it.

 

Picture #6 Oh, come on! Aargh! I can clearly see the upper thigh, and there's no unicorn panties... or dolphins. I don't know what to think.

 

Picture #7 Well... mehh. It's different for a lemmings board, I'll give you that. But, I don't see enough places for the little critters to die.

 

 

All jokes aside, that stuff looks great Obsidian! And, as to Rob Nesler's potty-mouth, I've only one thing to say about that:

 

http://youtu.be/6GVCgTFw2Qk

[Gizmo]

The traversable environment is pre-rendered to a high degree of realism, but we’re using a modern 3D game engine: Unity, for 3D characters, creatures, effects and animated props to be rendered in real-time and to assemble it all together, seamlessly.

Nice looking concept art.

 

I've a question about the use of the engine: Since you are rendering to a high degree of realism, will the [2d] level art be rendered with a vanishing point that is respected by the scale of the 3d characters? (IE. since the character art is going to be dynamic 3D, will they be rendered smaller as they approach the horizon line?)

 

 

In the Infinity engine games, the characters [when simultaneously onscreen] were identically sized in the foreground and the background ~which could make them appear bigger than they should be in some screenshots. The interesting reverse of this is Populous 3, where the characters were 2D sprites on a 3d landscape, and two shamans on different hilltops could render out as the same size when one was very distant and the other close up.

Edited December 5, 2012 by Gizmo

[WorstUsernameEver]

It looks to me like they are in pretty heavy duty prototyping, which makes sense especially if they are ramping up on new tools. According to Rob's update, it looks like there is ONE concept artist actually doing concepting right now. Which means the concepts will be, well, concepts. As opposed to full on materials for marketing.

 

 

As awesome as the WL2 Ranger Squad concept art is to look at, I'd argue it's more important for a marketing/buzz piece than something reflective for in game. Until you're doing the prototyping in engine, it's still just out of game concepting.

 

 

I'm personally impressed that their already willing to show off in game assets even if they are WIP. At this stage I'm already pretty confident.

 

Andrè Wallin's artwork was there to wow people, not to really set the visual direction for the game. I don't even like Wallin's style (way too contrast-y, crashes all the detail away), but many people do.

 

That said, my complaint* wasn't really about how polished the concepts are (they're not, but they won't be used in game, so it's okay), but rather about the stylistical choices for clothing, equipment, and even the new races' look. It seems to take inspiration mostly from other common fantasy artwork, rather than from historical pieces of clothing, and, most importantly, you don't really get the sense that the characters are wearing what they're wearing due to the reasons people do in the real world: practicality, fashion, cultural mores, etc. I realize I'm not doing a great job at explaining it, and this can be argued to be partially just a gut feeling. Still, I thought it was important to bring this kind of feedback too.

 

It's exactly because there's a lot of time to polish that Obsidian's artists should hear about what people like and don't, and read examples of games with successful fantasy art direction, so that they can improve on this foundation. I still think the environment they showed earlier during the Kickstarter was very good by the way. There are layers to it, and a sense of a culture, both old and current. It's a place where people have lived, where people now are adventuring. You get all of that with a glance. It's not super-original, but neither are Dark Souls or Skyrim or The Witcher 2**, and being "original" shouldn't even necessarily be the point.

 

Anyway, what I'm basically hoping is that when the game will be released, character artwork/models will be on the same level of environments in terms of direction, if not in terms of polycount/3d detail.

 

* you weren't quoting me so I assume it was more of a general address to the people of this thread, but I still feel important to better explain my reasons

 

** overpraised a bit in terms of art direction, IMO, but still very very solid and occasionally stunning.. I'm just hoping that they stop with cleavage armor for the third title, that's just all kinds of silly

[alanschu]

It's still early (so yeah, now's the time for feedback), but I find myself pretty satisfied. The new race style looks interesting enough. I think it's a tricky balance between just getting stuff up, running and seeing what it's like (sounds like they already ran into some hurdles, which is a good thing at this stage), while being representative.

 

Curious what level of customization there will be too, which will lend itself some more flair and variety.

 

 

Could always give him some spiked shoulder pauldrons in the worst case!

[WorstUsernameEver]

Could always give him some spiked shoulder pauldrons in the worst case!

 

Eh, this reminds me that I'm kinda wondering how Obsidian will solve the visibility/clarity problems that will eventually crop up. It's pretty obvious that they don't want to go for the whole "strong silhouettes" school of thought, and equipment will be relatively down to earth.

[alanschu]

I am willing to accept that, due to the nature of the game's perspective, levels of clarity and distinction will be somewhat compromised.

 

At the same time, this can be an advantage. Everyone having the same body type is less ostensibly obvious if they are all small. This would allow them to spend more time in customizing what they do can do with the base body (rather than having to duplicate their work for different body types).

 

We already do this in Dragon Age (which makes some people upset, but c'est la vie), but I think it's much more noticeable in Dragon Age due to it's more detailed close up shots. In the Infinity Engine I don't think there's much level of caring.

 

Still, Torment had pretty unique and distinguishable character models too. I'm rambling now.... so bedtime for me.

[sesobebo]

I've a question about the use of the engine: Since you are rendering to a high degree of realism, will the [2d] level art be rendered with a vanishing point that is respected by the scale of the 3d characters? (IE. since the character art is going to be dynamic 3D, will they be rendered smaller as they approach the horizon line?)

 

this game will be rendered in parallel projection. things there stay of the same size regardless of where in space they are. there is no horizon line*.

 

*or rather - it's in the infinity - *ba dum tsss*

[Kronos]

Nice, it looks like the plan is coming together.

[Starker]

That said, my complaint* wasn't really about how polished the concepts are (they're not, but they won't be used in game, so it's okay), but rather about the stylistical choices for clothing, equipment, and even the new races' look. It seems to take inspiration mostly from other common fantasy artwork, rather than from historical pieces of clothing, and, most importantly, you don't really get the sense that the characters are wearing what they're wearing due to the reasons people do in the real world: practicality, fashion, cultural mores, etc.

 

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RealityIsUnrealistic

[cdx]

Like what I see! Except for the language.. that's bad:)

 

House is nice, like the style. Very close to historical, looks great and will be a good base for differentiation to any other non-traditional styles that appear in the game.

 

Models are great, I especially like the silhouette of the smaller figure. It finds a great balance of weight, avoiding thin-thin limbs like in the Wasteland 2 screenshot and the tree trunk legs / hands of most modern games.

 

New concept images are great, too, it's so nice that they are much more dynamic now. I guess it's not very helpful to the 3d modellers but they are real eye candy:)

 

As for the +3 medicine ball.. I strongly believe it should be in the game!

 

.. as a ceiling pendant.

[Frisk]

Great update! Stuff like this is exactly why so many of us hang around here every day, even though the game is a maybe a year and a half away.

 

Any chance of getting a few technical details, like estimated poly count for the character models ?

[Gizmo]

this game will be rendered in parallel projection. things there stay of the same size regardless of where in space they are. there is no horizon line*.

 

*or rather - it's in the infinity - *ba dum tsss*

And it's not a problem.

 

I was just curious about it when he mentioned rendered realism, and because you can see the deliberate perspective in their concept art.

*And that since the characters are [presumably] fully 3D, and not pre-rendered, it is possible to scale them down (in realtime) as they walk away from the viewer.

 

(However... I can see the potential problem when panning the view.)

Edited December 5, 2012 by Gizmo

[FrostPaw]

Thanks for the update, was a great read!

 

I'm curious though, is the game intended to be viewed at a fixed perspective as with infinity engine games or will the camera orbit?

 

I'm looking at that tower model and noticing all the doors are accessible from "this side" of the model. I was just wondering if that's because this is the only side that will be visible or if this was the more interesting side to show.