Armour & weapon designs - a plea (part III).

[Karranthain]

I must say that I am very, very happy with what we've seen so far :

 

 

 

 

 

 

The direction is decidely moving towards sensible and practical designs - which, in my opinion, should make the game stand out in a crowd of fantasy games.

 

Keep up the good work, Obsidian! We're waiting for more!

[Spiritofpower]

I think this thread has a very noticeable deficiency in terms of weapon pictures. Thus, I come bearing a remedy for this problem! Namely, the arming sword:

 

Actual museum piece here; it's the long one on the far right:

 

Here's a couple of guys using these:

 

And these are several pictures of a modern reproduction:

 

 

 

And these are pictures of a different type of sword, the "flame-bladed sword" otherwise known as the flambard, flammard, or flammenschwert.

 

 

 

 

[Woldan]

Here is my Coldsteel replica of the German ''Grosses Kriegsmesser'' - Great war knife. Its a two handed sabre-like ''sword'' from the mid 15th century that is labeled a ''knife'' because swords must have two cutting edges. This one has only one, therefore its not a sword and commoners were allowed to own and carry one back in the medieval age. Only knights were allowed to carry swords.  

Its my favorite type of sword knife and I'd LOVE to see similar looking blades in PE.
Its heavy but very well balanced, quick, and has extreme cutting power like a totally oversized two-handed machete, I imagine one solid hit would cut a man in half. 
 








And here is my bastard sword / one-and-a-half handed sword:

I must say that I am very, very happy with what we've seen so far
 
The direction is decidely moving towards sensible and practical designs - which, in my opinion, should make the game stand out in a crowd of fantasy games.

I totally agree, I'm very happy with the pictures Obsidian has showed us so far, all the artworks showing armors / pieces of armor were excellent.

Edited April 1, 2013 by Woldan

[Merlkir]

Here's a couple of guys using these:

Eeeee, not using very properly, I'd say. That edge on edge contact is hurting my soul.

[Tsuga C]

I totally agree, I'm very happy with the pictures Obsidian has showed us so far, all the artworks showing armors / pieces of armor were excellent.

I suspect that there aren't too many ne'er-do-wells hanging around in The Woldan's neighborhood. Chop, chop! He clearly understands the Three Esses of dealing with low-lifes: slice, shovel, and shut up.

[Gfted1]

What is that loop on the crossguard for? Is that knife intended to be mounted onto something?

[Woldan]

Thats a ''Wehrnagel'', its German, ''Wehr'' means to defend or protect, ''Nagel'' means nail/pin/bolt. So its name pretty much indicates what its purpose is, it protects the fingers from getting cut off by enemy blades sliding off the wielders blade when blocking/wrestling.
There were many wrestling techniques with swords where the wielders fingers could get hurt/cut off very easily, that eventually lead to the invention of the Wehrnagel, some decades later the basket-hilt was invented for maximum hand protection.
I've also heard that the Wehrnagel could be used to disarm the enemy when wrestling, but I'm not entirely sure how this worked.  

The only problem is I wield two handed swords with the left hand on top even though I'm right handed. No finger protection for me. 
 

I suspect that there aren't too many ne'er-do-wells hanging around in The Woldan's neighborhood. Chop, chop! He clearly understands the Three Esses of dealing with low-lifes: slice, shovel, and shut up.

Except the second ''S'' stands for ''swallow'' - I simply found it too uncomfortable to carry a shovel with me all the time .  
 
*edit*
 
More pictures! Polearms!    
 

Edited April 1, 2013 by Woldan

[Karranthain]

Amazing artwork, thanks Woldan!

 

I'd love to see pollaxes and halberds in the game.

[Merlkir]

Yep. It's been suggested that the more swords were starting to be used without shields (and the more throwing and locking techniques have been used), the more swords developed some kind of protection against blades sliding into the fingers. The early ones might've been made of leather. In fact, what's often referred to as "rainguard" might've been exactly that - a guard to protect your fingers. (perhaps protecting the blade against rain. But frankly, sword scabbards seem to have managed to do this quite fine before, so I'm not entirely sold on rainguards)

 

http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=6000&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

 

(The Hammaborg video is marked as "private" for some reason. :/)

[JFSOCC]

''Wehr'' means to defend or protect

I'd say repel is a better translation.

[Woldan]

Amazing artwork, thanks Woldan!

 

I'd love to see pollaxes and halberds in the game.

 

I too like it, just look at the reflections on the uneven surfaces of the armors, amazing details, the painter is a true pro and seems to know how armors look & work.  

 

And yes, I'm a huge fan of pole arms, I hope there will be some in PE, maybe with some rules for the special advantages and disadvantages. 

 

Which leads me to the next picture /request, I'd like to see the Flemish Goedendag in PE. Whats a Goedendag you ask? Well, Goedendag is a Dutch word and means ''Good day'' (Other sources say its a mistranslation and the word meant something like ''Spiked club'') and the weapon is a neat spear/club hybrid which was a very effective multi functional weapon, especially against knights.

It could be used as pike against cavalry, as blunt weapon against heavily armored opponents and as spear in formations. It was also a very simple easy to produce weapon.

 

 

 

 

 

Flemish soldiers armed with Goedendags: 

 

 

 

''Wehr'' means to defend or protect

I'd say repel is a better translation.

 

 

Thats indeed a better translation! Edited April 1, 2013 by Woldan

[Spiritofpower]

 

Here's a couple of guys using these:

Eeeee, not using very properly, I'd say. That edge on edge contact is hurting my soul.

I'm not really convinced blocking with the flat was how they did it, but I'm not going to argue the point here. I assume that that one was perhaps an exhibition shot by a photographer who thought edge-on-edge looked better, and insisted they do it like that. I mainly chose it because it looked good and illustrated the arming sword's size rather well. I've found that all across the internet intelligent people will insist repeatedly that blocking edge-on-edge is an absolutely terrible idea, but then they also say

 

Anyways, this time I give you one of the ever-popular Asian swords; the Jian!

 

Expecting katana? Too bad, jian time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And if you're wondering, yes, the last two are the same sword. Also, it was way easier to find these than it was to find decent arming sword and flammenschwert pics. Freakin' overhyped Asian swords...

[Jarmo]

Jian is just the kind of sword I'd expect Tolkien Elves to use. Instead of any silly curved elderscroll elvinisms.

Guess it'll be mostly spears and bows for the woodland hippies in Eternity... 

but even then, there just needs to be and ancient elven tomb, or it's no rpg as we know them.

[Merlkir]

Except people (like ARMA and others) have tried it and blocking edge on edge causes the sword edges to bite into each other, leaving chips and rather huge nicks. It's not entirely a dichotomy of "edge on edge" vs. "blocking with the flat" either, there's cutting into the flat (and thus deflecting), slding on the flat etc.

 

 

 

Here's a couple of guys using these:

Eeeee, not using very properly, I'd say. That edge on edge contact is hurting my soul.

I'm not really convinced blocking with the flat was how they did it, but I'm not going to argue the point here. I assume that that one was perhaps an exhibition shot by a photographer who thought edge-on-edge looked better, and insisted they do it like that. I mainly chose it because it looked good and illustrated the arming sword's size rather well. I've found that all across the internet intelligent people will insist repeatedly that blocking edge-on-edge is an absolutely terrible idea, but then they also say

[Merlkir]

Jian is just the kind of sword I'd expect Tolkien Elves to use. Instead of any silly curved elderscroll elvinisms.

Guess it'll be mostly spears and bows for the woodland hippies in Eternity... 

but even then, there just needs to be and ancient elven tomb, or it's no rpg as we know them.

 

That's an interesting position. While designing elven swords (Middle Earth elves) in the past, I definitely did look at Chinese swords for ideas. (but also at La Tene ones) I do however think the movie swords fit the way they designed elven culture better than any straight ones would. (and they're very beautiful designs, also quite functional)

 

http://merlkir.deviantart.com/art/TLD-Elven-doodles-140536680

http://merlkir.deviantart.com/art/Elven-Sword-Evolution-128393180

[Jarmo]

Though, in real combat it's possible you wouldn't have time to go through the whole thought process.

 

"Hmm... there seems to be a sword slashing my way, I guess I'd better either dodge or block, but in case I decide to block it's best to flat the blade so I won't ruin the prescious edge. Best hurry up in any case, the 0.1 seconds I have won't last forever..."

[Merlkir]

Though, in real combat it's possible you wouldn't have time to go through the whole thought process.

 

"Hmm... there seems to be a sword slashing my way, I guess I'd better either dodge or block, but in case I decide to block it's best to flat the blade so I won't ruin the prescious edge. Best hurry up in any case, the 0.1 seconds I have won't last forever..."

 

Of course you do whatever saves your life. You do underestimate training though, it's not a matter of a lengthy decision making process. You automatically do what you're trained to do. Parries with the flat come very natural to me, I'd have to be really surprised or out of balance to resort to a hard block on edge. (and I'm certainly not a warrior fighting for a living, having to take care of his tools of the trade. ) I manage though.)

[Jarmo]

 

Though, in real combat it's possible you wouldn't have time to go through the whole thought process.

 

"Hmm... there seems to be a sword slashing my way, I guess I'd better either dodge or block, but in case I decide to block it's best to flat the blade so I won't ruin the prescious edge. Best hurry up in any case, the 0.1 seconds I have won't last forever..."

 

Of course you do whatever saves your life. You do underestimate training though, it's not a matter of a lengthy decision making process. You automatically do what you're trained to do. Parries with the flat come very natural to me, I'd have to be really surprised or out of balance to resort to a hard block on edge. (and I'm certainly not a warrior fighting for a living, having to take care of his tools of the trade. ) I manage though.)

 

Granted. Though you might also underestimate how the well trained coreography of thrusts and parries can fly out the window when you realize it's actually your life on the line. Lot more adrenaline filled screaming and biting and hitting and blocking with whatever part of weapon or body that happens around.

 

But actual professionals with training and experience, the kind that's capable or keeping their cool.. yeah.

Would use the proper form, would not ruin their equipment by blocking stupidly. Probably not anyway.

[SophosTheWise]

 

 

[Karranthain]

On a (somewhat) related note, a video update on Torment's graphics :

 

 

I wonder whether we'll see a similar level of detail for characters in PE? Here's hoping, because it looks quite impressive (and it's apparently been made in a couple of days).

Edited April 2, 2013 by Karranthain

[Merlkir]

Considering their tech is probably borrowed from Obsidian, we just might. I like the cape physics.

[balladur's gates]

It would be great and really innovative that obisidian continues to develop  baroque, colourful, panached helms, elaborate doublets, spread the impression of late middle-age, early Renaissance where costums, armors and weapons were stylished and sophisticated.

 

Imagin a tall elegant and boisterous Landsknecht with a big swordfish, could be an awesome recruitable character.

 

here some pictures to stimulate your creations :

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 2, 2013 by balladur's gates

[Karranthain]

Let's add Tercios to the mix (Vaillan Republics maybe?) while we're at it :

 

 

[balladur's gates]

[Gorgon]

What is that. Empire stuff from Warhammer FB