Morrowind...aka WTF happened Bethesda

[Nordicus]

Nah. I never played an ES game for more than 10 hours max (and haven't bothered with Skyrim at all) and they suck like ****. I wasted the $50 max I've spent on the entire series. L0L

Clearly your insightful comment deserves the most eloquent, most constructive, the longest and most heavily edited of replies, nothing less can possibly stand on the level of your comment. Your ability to deconstruct and analyze text is simply peerless.

 

Thus I present to you this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ontsY_fOC3g

 

[Humodour]

MW was/is a horrible game. Then again, it's an ES series game so that is just a given.

Morrowind is considered one of the greatest RPG of all time for many, so I interested in why you think it is a terrible game?

 

Because it has no story, atmosphere, or overarching plot.

 

Morrowind is just a sandbox. It's fun for a while, but then you suddenly feel really dirty once you complete the main quest and realise the game is more shallow than a toddler's wading pool full of pee.

 

The best part of Morrowind was the dwarven ruins.

[alanschu]

I liked Morrowind, but it really struck me as the first game I played that I considered a "single player MMO"

[Volourn]

"Clearly your insightful comment deserves the most eloquent, most constructive, the longest and most heavily edited of replies, nothing less can possibly stand on the level of your comment. Your ability to deconstruct and analyze text is simply peerless."

 

Only troll here is the person who can't accept a differing opinion. MW simply isn't a good game. You crying about my opinion and posting attack videos and trying to demean me as a human being won't change a single thing about MW.

[old school fool]

Morrowind, when it came out, was by far the best attempt yet at creating a discrete world, not just a game. Everything about it felt Invented and crafted, while at the same time freeform. The gameworld's internal logic was extensively thought-out (example: The Telvanni mushroom towers, that you couldn't get into unless you could levitate because, naturally in that game world, the Telvanni were all mages and could all levitate) The entire world rewarded exploration and curiosity, and was filled with hidden secrets that you discovered the way you should in an open-world game, through exercising this curiosity. The lore was by far the best of the series, and the character interaction, crucially, had interesting and sometimes amusing gameplay applications--for example Crassius Curio, the perfectly named lech and leader of one of the Great Houses, refuses to advance you in the house until you take off all your clothes for him. Virtually every gameworld object could be interacted with--the devs understood something critical about sandbox games, that the more the player can interact with, the more they are immersed. Not to mention the massive amount of factions, the tons of little sidequests in every nook and cranny, the differing interpretations of the various factions, the very respectable amount of skills, abilities, armors and weapons, and just the sheer amount of locations in the game. And perhaps most importantly, it gave PCs the ability to use the Z-axis in gameplay, via Levitation and Jump, vastly increasing the player's combat and exploration options.

 

Unfortunately, Todd Howard, rather than deepen the faction interactions, fix the AI problems created by giving the PC access to the Z-axis, and maintain the wild inventiveness of the creatures, races, and lore, decided to cash in with Oblivion, creating a dumbed-down, hand-holding, boringly conventional northern European forest-land with some flashy updated graphics and combat mechanics, but having fewer skills, of which even fewer had a meaningful effect or gameplay use, only a third of the factions, none of which interacted with each other in any meaningful way, and the oldest and most hackneyed "Close ye the gates of HELL," plot you could ever imagine.

 

Skyrim, in terms of world variety and PC skill applicability, was a modest step back towards what Morrowind had, but the Z-axis is forever gone, because the developers just can't handle you breaking their precious combat encounters with it. Imaginatively it's still comparatively bland, and the faction and quest design still fall woefully short, because, well, Kirkbride and Rolston are gone, and there ain't no replacing them.

[WDeranged]

Only troll here is the person who can't accept a differing opinion. MW simply isn't a good game. You crying about my opinion and posting attack videos and trying to demean me as a human being won't change a single thing about MW.

 

I actually agree, Morrowind really isn't a good game, so many half arsed systems and mechanics all jumbled together by desperate developers from a dying company...it's a good job the story and world are the most engrossing thing I've ever experienced in a computer game.

 

Morrowind is an archaeology simulator, it's not for everyone.

 

snip

 

Not to nitpick but it's actually the Y-axis that we lost, if anything Skyrim is aaaall about the Z-axis

Edited November 15, 2012 by WDeranged

[Tagaziel]

Because it has no story, atmosphere, or overarching plot.

 

Morrowind is just a sandbox. It's fun for a while, but then you suddenly feel really dirty once you complete the main quest and realise the game is more shallow than a toddler's wading pool full of pee.

 

The best part of Morrowind was the dwarven ruins.

 

It does have a lot of story, atmosphere and an overarching plot. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[Drowsy Emperor]

Except it doesn't bother to devote even 5 minutes to explaining any of those, instead leaving it all up to the player to piece everything together.

 

Unless a game is intentionally ambiguous, which Morrowind is not, there's only one way to describe a game where a player has to go out of his way to experience the story and that's - lazy.

[Orchomene]

Rats are easy in Morrowind. The real plague is cliff racer. I hated those critters.

[Tagaziel]

Except it doesn't bother to devote even 5 minutes to explaining any of those, instead leaving it all up to the player to piece everything together.

 

Is a lack of hand holding really a problem?

 

Unless a game is intentionally ambiguous, which Morrowind is not, there's only one way to describe a game where a player has to go out of his way to experience the story and that's - lazy.

 

How is Morrowind not intentionally ambiguous?

[Nordicus]

Only troll here is the person who can't accept a differing opinion. MW simply isn't a good game.

Oh I can accept a differing viewpoint, this is about how you present yours. There are plenty of other people in this thread that don't care for Morrowind, did you see me being a jerk to them?

 

For this whole thread you've presented yours as "The Elder Scrolls series sucks. That's that", as something widely agreed upon, or factual, and now, that you are forced to occupy a defensive position, you say "hey, opinions, what's the big deal" and then right after "MW simply isn't a good game". Flip-flopping much?

 

Oh indeed, it simply isn't, that's why it gets remade in both Oblivion and Skyrim as mods. It is so bad that people make the time to remake that massive game world.

 

Don't keep pokin the hornet's nest and maybe you won't get stung by an ***hole hornet such as me, and then victimize yourself

 

You crying about my opinion and posting attack videos and trying to demean me as a human being won't change a single thing about MW.

There ain't no tear on this cheek my good man. Only a smug grin Edited November 16, 2012 by Nordicus

[Drowsy Emperor]

Except it doesn't bother to devote even 5 minutes to explaining any of those, instead leaving it all up to the player to piece everything together.

 

Is a lack of hand holding really a problem?

 

Unless a game is intentionally ambiguous, which Morrowind is not, there's only one way to describe a game where a player has to go out of his way to experience the story and that's - lazy.

 

How is Morrowind not intentionally ambiguous?

 

You're (deliberately or not) presenting the issue as an extreme: "its either the way I like or its hand holding". That's not how thing are, between Morrowind story buried in miles of meaningless dialog and scattered books and literal hand holding there are a thousand ways to tell a compelling story.

Morrowind's is literally, the most annoying, indirect and lazy way possible. I don't have 100 hours to waste going through samey brown dungeons and brown world looking for tiny morsels of story here and there.

 

 

Intentionally ambiguous as in being purposefully left open to interpretation, like you could ponder over the Wander's quest from Shadow of the Colossus or Nameless one's fate in Torment etc.

That's simply not the idea behind MW, or any Elder Scrolls game. They're a fantasy Grand Theft Auto (and you could even make some parallels with factions and gangs in those games) with a main quest for the sole reason that there needs to be one.

 

I can understand that people like, or even love the "do what you want" sandbox gameplay of ES games. But selling them as good storytelling in any shape or form is just unrealistic.

Edited November 16, 2012 by Drowsy Emperor

[melkathi]

 

You're (deliberately or not) presenting the issue as an extreme: "its either the way I like or its hand holding". That's not how thing are, between Morrowind story buried in miles of meaningless dialog and scattered books and literal hand holding there are a thousand ways to tell a compelling story.

Morrowind's is literally, the most annoying, indirect and lazy way possible. I don't have 100 hours to waste going through samey brown dungeons and brown world looking for tiny morsels of story here and there.

 

 

Intentionally ambiguous as in being purposefully left open to interpretation, like you could ponder over the Wander's quest from Shadow of the Colossus or Nameless one's fate in Torment etc.

That's simply not the idea behind MW, or any Elder Scrolls game. They're a fantasy Grand Theft Auto (and you could even make some parallels with factions and gangs in those games) with a main quest for the sole reason that there needs to be one.

 

I can understand that people like, or even love the "do what you want" sandbox gameplay of ES games. But selling them as good storytelling in any shape or form is just unrealistic.

 

Allow me a bit of nitpicking here and a bit of counterarguing there.

 

"literaly the most annoying" Causes of annoyance are a personal matter. I found annoying the railroading of DA2, especially all the 3rd act. I have frankly never been as annoyed by a story as that act. So let's write this one off to personal opinion.

"The most indirect" May be something negative for you, but as this thread shows, is exactly what the people who enjoyed it loved about it. So what is the point you are trying to make with this comment?

"The most lazy" Is an interesting assumption. You assume that indirect story telling requires no effort and that spreading clues and information over a vast world is proof of a slacker.

 

You state that you have not the time or inclination to search through Morrowind for all the information that makes up the story. Yet you pressume to then judge whether the story is ambiguous or not.

The idea of Elder Scrolls games is the open world exploration - how that affects whether a story is ambiguous or not, I must confess is beyond me.

 

I can understand that you did not enjoy the game, but selling yourself as the person who can judge who's opinion on the game's story (not storytelling, there is a difference even though you gloss over it) is good or not is just unrealistic... no, that is not the word that goes there. Though it would make for better trolling to use your adjectiv against you, I think the word I am looking for is "absurd".

 

Morrowind: a sandbox game with a story that is very straight forward but rewards those players, who spend the time delving deeper, with further layers that make it the one story that Bethesda got right.

But you seem to prefer to have the attitude you accuse others of having: "I don't like it therefor its crap"

I'd say pot meet kettle, but I am not sure who in this thread would be the kettle counterpart to your pot.

[WorstUsernameEver]

The basic Morrowind plot was all presented in fairly simple, to-the-point dialogue and cutscenes. Uh.

[Drowsy Emperor]

Look whenever anyone tells me that I just have to delve in deeper to really get it, I'm inclined to call bull****. I played Morrowind for about 20 hours and the game had nothing to show for it, especially in the story department. If by good design you mean the story beginning with an NPC telling you to "level up more and come back", having to spend hours of mostly running around doing nothing while waiting to get served with the next piece of exposition then all I can do is shrug.

 

The result is me not actually caring about the story at all because the game fails at piquing interest, giving me a reason to care about the world, characters - anything.

 

Not to mention the ever growing list of dialog options that makes it harder and harder to actually tell important information from gibberish, a crappy journal that doesn't help you sort through what you already know.

 

In fact to get anything out of Morrowind you have to work and work hard at it. Same as in every Bethesda game, because they're all half baked - otherwise they wouldn't need mods to fix everything from the interface to the world map.

 

Its really not that hard to conclude that people at Bethesda are just lazy. Or inept.

 

Btw if you took the above as anything more than a personal opinion then you're just silly.

Edited November 16, 2012 by Drowsy Emperor

[Volourn]

"Oh I can accept a differing viewpoint, this is about how you present yours. There are plenty of other people in this thread that don't care for Morrowind, did you see me being a jerk to them?

 

For this whole thread you've presented yours as "The Elder Scrolls series sucks. That's that", as something widely agreed upon, or factual, and now, that you are forced to occupy a defensive position, you say "hey, opinions, what's the big deal" and then right after "MW simply isn't a good game". Flip-flopping much?

 

Oh indeed, it simply isn't, that's why it gets remade in both Oblivion and Skyrim as mods. It is so bad that people make the time to remake that massive game world.

 

Don't keep pokin the hornet's nest and maybe you won't get stung by an ***hole hornet such as me, and then victimize yourself"

 

Keep crying. It won't change the fact that someone hates your precious MW. It sucks. deal with it. You aren't impressing anyone. L0L Saying MW is bad is poking the hornet's nest b/c the truth hurts fanboys.

 

Keep uyp the good work in your horrible defense of a crappy game. Just remember that commenting about me won't change how bad your precious MW is..

[Drowsy Emperor]

Agreeing with you is doing nothing for my reputation.

[Volourn]

Why are you were about reputation? It's the internet. If I worried about reputation,I woudln't get the chance of seeing butthurt overr others' having different opinions and that's the best part of the internet.

 

As a not so wise internet site stated, if you have a game you like, someone out there hates it, and you have to suck it up and deal with it.

[alanschu]

But the people that hate it are wrong!

[Drowsy Emperor]

Why are you were about reputation? It's the internet. If I worried about reputation,I woudln't get the chance of seeing butthurt overr others' having different opinions and that's the best part of the internet.

 

As a not so wise internet site stated, if you have a game you like, someone out there hates it, and you have to suck it up and deal with it.

 

It was a joke you fruitcake.

[WDeranged]

Intentionally ambiguous as in being purposefully left open to interpretation, like you could ponder over the Wander's quest from Shadow of the Colossus or Nameless one's fate in Torment etc.

That's simply not the idea behind MW, or any Elder Scrolls game. They're a fantasy Grand Theft Auto (and you could even make some parallels with factions and gangs in those games) with a main quest for the sole reason that there needs to be one.

 

I hate to disagree, intentional ambiguity is the crux of Morrowind's main quest, it's not just about looting some dungeons and running off to Dagoth Ur to kill the big bad. I've pondered over the guilt of the Tribunal and the true fate of Nevervar (and the Dwemer) just as much as The Nameless One..more in fact.

 

 

I know you said that having to dig for plot is bull**** and in a GTA game I'd agree but I stand by my opinion that Morrowind is an archaeology sim and really not for everyone

[Felithvian]

I've never seen a game with so many sects & religions. Morrowind surely offered a profound religious debate.

 

This game belongs to the golden era of the computer platform.

[Drowsy Emperor]

Intentionally ambiguous as in being purposefully left open to interpretation, like you could ponder over the Wander's quest from Shadow of the Colossus or Nameless one's fate in Torment etc.

That's simply not the idea behind MW, or any Elder Scrolls game. They're a fantasy Grand Theft Auto (and you could even make some parallels with factions and gangs in those games) with a main quest for the sole reason that there needs to be one.

 

I hate to disagree, intentional ambiguity is the crux of Morrowind's main quest, it's not just about looting some dungeons and running off to Dagoth Ur to kill the big bad. I've pondered over the guilt of the Tribunal and the true fate of Nevervar (and the Dwemer) just as much as The Nameless One..more in fact.

 

 

I know you said that having to dig for plot is bull**** and in a GTA game I'd agree but I stand by my opinion that Morrowind is an archaeology sim and really not for everyone

 

Well since its you who's saying it I'll give the game another go some day and slog through the not-so-favorable first, second or even third impression.

[WDeranged]

Intentionally ambiguous as in being purposefully left open to interpretation, like you could ponder over the Wander's quest from Shadow of the Colossus or Nameless one's fate in Torment etc.

That's simply not the idea behind MW, or any Elder Scrolls game. They're a fantasy Grand Theft Auto (and you could even make some parallels with factions and gangs in those games) with a main quest for the sole reason that there needs to be one.

 

I hate to disagree, intentional ambiguity is the crux of Morrowind's main quest, it's not just about looting some dungeons and running off to Dagoth Ur to kill the big bad. I've pondered over the guilt of the Tribunal and the true fate of Nevervar (and the Dwemer) just as much as The Nameless One..more in fact.

 

 

I know you said that having to dig for plot is bull**** and in a GTA game I'd agree but I stand by my opinion that Morrowind is an archaeology sim and really not for everyone

 

Well since its you who's saying it I'll give the game another go some day and slog through the not-so-favorable first, second or even third impression.

 

You're right on the money about every Bethesda game since but if you think history is wai kewl then Morrowind really does have something unique to offer as far as computer game plots.

 

The mechanics however are pretty crappy, mods are required, there's no real game to Morrowind without them in my opinion...even with all the holes blocked up the gameplay is still very "meta", it's just a Vvardenfell Wiki with swords

Edited November 17, 2012 by WDeranged

[HoonDing]

Morrowind indeed has a pretty standard "save the world" story (but with a twist). Daggerfall had a much better main story, the entire intrigue unravelled slowly and there were people actively trying to screw your character over if at one point you chose to trust the wrong person.

 

And if your reputation with one of the factions was too low, you'd get assassins after your hide.

 

Biggest flaw, though, is multiple endings that in the end had no effect on the game world whatsoever because even in 1996 Bethesda realized that people would want to continue playing after the main quest. Remember all the clamour when your character "died" at the end of Fallout 3.