charismatic villains

[Failion]

One feature I like in jrpgs what you rarely see in crpgs. Is sexy, charismatic powerful villains. With love or hate personalities that the player encounters throughout the game. If they are well written and done they alone can encourage the player to play throughout the entire game. Alpha protocol had these characters like that cougar Russian chick. But it was kept very brief and you didn't really get to know her.

[Orogun01]

"cougar Russian chick"

 

yeah, I don't know if you're trolling or not but there's already a thread for villains.

[Atreides]

Fair enough. I'd rather not have villains obviously demonized to the point it becomes unintentionally comical. Two examples are the faceless demonic hordes of Darkspawn in Dragon Age and the English boxer in Ip Man 2.

[TrashMan]

Darkspawn are fine. They aren't demonized to the point of comical. They are besital.

 

 

And speaking of JRPG villains. I can't recall a singel one I would call "good".

Pretty emo bishonens do not make compellign villains for me. I kinda have trouble taking them seriously when they look like they spend most their day at a stylist and haird dresser, and when their plans and logic is so redicolously insane.

 

EXAMPLE:

"I'm gonna destroy the world because living is painfull. People die! So I will kill them all so they will never have to suffer the pain of dying!"

[HangedMan]

Darkspawn are fine. They aren't demonized to the point of comical. They are besital.

 

 

And speaking of JRPG villains. I can't recall a singel one I would call "good".

Pretty emo bishonens do not make compellign villains for me. I kinda have trouble taking them seriously when they look like they spend most their day at a stylist and haird dresser, and when their plans and logic is so redicolously insane.

 

EXAMPLE:

"I'm gonna destroy the world because living is painfull. People die! So I will kill them all so they will never have to suffer the pain of dying!"

I agree wholeheartedly. It is, more often than not, childish and absurd, rather than meaningful and well thought out.

[mcmanusaur]

"cougar Russian chick"

 

yeah, I don't know if you're trolling or not but there's already a thread for villains.

Make that five... in serious need of merging.

[Failion]

"cougar Russian chick"

 

yeah, I don't know if you're trolling or not but there's already a thread for villains.

Make that five... in serious need of merging.

 

Take it for what you will but Alpha protocol russian cougar chick is good example of point I'm trying to make. The infinity engine games have graphic limitations in character development. Hideo Kojima the developer of metal gear solid puts good use of cinematics, using the games graphic engine, in building his characters. Personally I'm hoping Obsidian make use of the technique with the game engine they are using that I believe shares flaws with the old infinity engine.

[Aldereth]

Darkspawn are fine. They aren't demonized to the point of comical. They are besital.

 

 

And speaking of JRPG villains. I can't recall a singel one I would call "good".

Pretty emo bishonens do not make compellign villains for me. I kinda have trouble taking them seriously when they look like they spend most their day at a stylist and haird dresser, and when their plans and logic is so redicolously insane.

 

EXAMPLE:

"I'm gonna destroy the world because living is painfull. People die! So I will kill them all so they will never have to suffer the pain of dying!"

 

I think the JRPG as well as anime are so focus on a certain age group / core market, anime that they almost inherrently use the emo-bad-boy thing as charming. Sigh, so much wasted opportunity over the years.

 

Personally, I think it is more interesting to create a villain who by the large has most of the attribute of a hero. Some one who is likeable, confident, ambitious, outgoing, intelligent, adhere to a personal code of honor, try to do right to those he call friends if not for a few fatal character flaws.that invariably make him a villain. eg. an all consuming ambition, twisted world view or value system, completely ruthless to his enemies. Some one the player can relate to and want to be friend with but at the same time very dangerous to cross or make an enemy of.

[Death Machine Miyagi]

I can't think of JRPG villains without thinking 'Sephiroth' and I can't think of a Sephiroth-clone as the primary antagonist of P:E without wanting to shoot myself in the head.

[Sacred_Path]

I'd like their charisma to rest on understandable motivations, goals you can empathize with but you don't agree on the means they use to achieve them. Or, I'd also like to see an antagonist that has all the qualities of a hero/ respected leader but you just happen to stand on different sides. Then you could try to negotiate a truce, play both sides for profit or do the paladin-y thing and just follow through with enforcing your side's interests (for god and country!).

[Brother Pain]

I have to join with the group that can't think of a single JRPG villain that's memorable.

 

That said, I do want charismatic villains. Though what I want even more are charismatic villains that I will actively hate, Whether because of their deeds, their incredibly annoying doucheness (for lack of a better word) or whatever else. Nothing is better than finally slitting the throat or putting a bullet in the head of a villain that's been a thorn in your side for a long time. Even better if you get the final word before you do so.

 

Handsome Jack, Darth Angral, Bann Vaughan, Beaumont, even Sean Darcy. These were all the type of villains that I didn't grudgingly respect, but was happy when I finally got to put them down. I didn't try to reason with them, didn't try to turn them to the light side, or to see it my way. They're the kind of thing a computer game can properly offer, since they can be kept alive, even as they're impeding you, sending you taunting ECHOs, leaving you to die, and so on. In my PnP experience, enemies like that tend to die a bit too quickly, and I can only remember one enemy that wasn't the big bad pissing me off like that and surviving (for a time) over some 20 years of PnP RPGs.

[rjshae]

I wonder if the developers will include any cut scenes featuring the main villains? That would be one way to give them more of a personality.

[Hormalakh]

Yeah seeeing Arronax in Arcanum in a cutscene really helped me picture him in my mind and later empathize with him.

[AGX-17]

 

One feature I like in jrpgs what you rarely see in crpgs. Is sexy, charismatic powerful villains. With love or hate personalities that the player encounters throughout the game. If they are well written and done they alone can encourage the player to play throughout the entire game. Alpha protocol had these characters like that cougar Russian chick. But it was kept very brief and you didn't really get to know her.

 

[sarcasm]Yeah that Kefka sure was sexy.[/sarcasm]

 

I have to join with the group that can't think of a single JRPG villain that's memorable.

 

Memorable and charismatic are not the same thing.

 

I can think of some charismatic antagonists and villains in JRPGs. Charismatic isn't the same thing as well-written, though.

 

I can think of a few charismatic, well-written JRPG antagonists.

[Corvus Metus]

If someone can't think of a single, memorable jRPG villain they haven't played very many jRPGs.

 

Off the top of my head; Magus from Chrono Trigger (who despite joining your party was never redeemed), Luca Blight of Suikoden II, most antagonists in the Suikoden series in general, Lucifer's portrayal in Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne (though you could argue he's not a villain), Mastema from Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey (see: Lucifer).

 

Hell, with the exception of Luca Blight, there isn't a single Suikoden villain that is actually evil.

 

Likewise, off the top of my head, the only villains in wRPGs I think are great are Irenicus, Kriea, and most of the named characters in Ceaser's Legion.

 

 

Anyway... I want a character I can sympathize with as an antagonist - but still want to kill.

[bonarbill]

It's a bad idea to mention JRPGs on this forums, because it results in some (fairly amusing) xenophobic attacks.

[Giantevilhead]

I definitely want a villain who can be extremely charismatic or likeable regardless of what their methods or goals are.

 

Kane from Command and Conquer is the perfect example of this kind of villain.

 

 

He's a sociopathic cult leader who lies to everyone, conducts terrorist campaigns against his enemies, and does horrible genetic experiments on civilians. But he's just so damn charismatic that you like him even when he's telling you to detonate a bomb that would blow up half of Europe.

Edited November 10, 2012 by Giantevilhead

[Felithvian]

Kane from Command and Conquer is the perfect example of this kind of villain.

 

I prefer the guy from your avatar. Megalomaniacal, sinister, strategically-minded and intelligent, Sandro is portrayed as a villainous conqueror Lich Lord.

[Giantevilhead]

But Sandro is not very charismatic. He relies on deception and sabotage rather than leadership skills. He's the kind of guy who pulls the strings from behind the scenes.

 

Although, unlike other villains, especially other necromancers, Sandro actually learns from his mistakes. He learned to keep his megalomania in check and the importance of having allies.

 

It's just too bad that Ubisoft screwed up the entire franchise and killed the old Might and Magic universe.

Edited November 10, 2012 by Giantevilhead

[BasaltineBadger]

Darkspawn are fine. They aren't demonized to the point of comical. They are besital.

 

 

And speaking of JRPG villains. I can't recall a singel one I would call "good".

Pretty emo bishonens do not make compellign villains for me. I kinda have trouble taking them seriously when they look like they spend most their day at a stylist and haird dresser, and when their plans and logic is so redicolously insane.

 

EXAMPLE:

"I'm gonna destroy the world because living is painfull. People die! So I will kill them all so they will never have to suffer the pain of dying!"

 

Contrary to your vast knowledge of the genre not every jPRG villain is Sephiroth. Lavos and Odio were pretty neat by the way.

 

@Failion

She was neither a villain nor Russian.

Edited November 10, 2012 by BasaltineBadger

[aluminiumtrioxid]

If someone can't think of a single, memorable jRPG villain they haven't played very many jRPGs.

 

Likewise, off the top of my head, the only villains in wRPGs I think are great are Irenicus, Kriea, and most of the named characters in Ceaser's Legion.

 

That is true.

 

On the other hand, PST, Arcanum, Jade Empire, Deus Ex (let's count it as an RPG, C&C and levelling was present) and VtM: Bloodlines also had kinda neat villains.

[Felithvian]

It's just too bad that Ubisoft screwed up the entire franchise and killed the old Might and Magic universe.

 

The people who support the products from Ubisoft are the real problem. Dark Messiah, Heroes V & Heroes VI bastardized the universe created by New World Computing.

Edited November 10, 2012 by Felithvian

[TrashMan]

Darkspawn are fine. They aren't demonized to the point of comical. They are besital.

 

 

And speaking of JRPG villains. I can't recall a singel one I would call "good".

Pretty emo bishonens do not make compellign villains for me. I kinda have trouble taking them seriously when they look like they spend most their day at a stylist and haird dresser, and when their plans and logic is so redicolously insane.

 

EXAMPLE:

"I'm gonna destroy the world because living is painfull. People die! So I will kill them all so they will never have to suffer the pain of dying!"

 

I think the JRPG as well as anime are so focus on a certain age group / core market, anime that they almost inherrently use the emo-bad-boy thing as charming. Sigh, so much wasted opportunity over the years.

 

I noticed that problem is far more common in JRPGs as opposed to anime.

I've seen some VERY good anime villains.

And animes without real villians.

 

Take a look at Monster, Planetes and such.

 

 

[ArkhanTheBlack]

From movies, good old Darth Vader and Hannibal Lector comes to mind.

Castor Troy from Face / Off was also pretty cool.

 

From games I'd say Gonzō Azai from G-senjou no Maou visual novel scared the hell out of me.

Dr. Mortis from Stefan Gagnes Excrucio Eternum mod for Neverwinter Nights was also brilliant.

 

That's pretty much all I can remember. In general game villains suck the most.

[AGX-17]

And speaking of JRPG villains. I can't recall a singel one I would call "good".

Pretty emo bishonens do not make compellign villains for me. I kinda have trouble taking them seriously when they look like they spend most their day at a stylist and haird dresser, and when their plans and logic is so redicolously insane.

 

EXAMPLE:

"I'm gonna destroy the world because living is painfull. People die! So I will kill them all so they will never have to suffer the pain of dying!"

 

Where is this example from?

 

There's no denying that Japanese game developers tend to value style over substance, but I can think of examples to counter yours, that actually exist: In the Super Robot Wars franchise, the first "villain" is a middle-aged, bearded scientist (not an emo pretty boy,) who discovers (from a "bigger bad" source,) that aliens exist and are plotting to attack the Earth, but his warnings fall on deaf ears, world governments consider him a crackpot (this game came out in the early 90s, no accusations of ripping off Mass Effect.) So with the help of his morally ambiguous benefactor from another world (an antagonist running a Xanatos Gambit that doesn't reach fruition until several more games into the series,) he organizes a massive scientific foundation which is a front for a militaristic rebellion using advanced technology (giant robots, of course!) to force the world to unite against him and militarize (this same technology is deliberately leaked to the newly formed world government.) Were he to succeed, he would be in control of that new pan-global military-industrial complex and prepared for invasion, were he to fail, the Earth's united forces would be in a condition capable of defending it from invasion (which is how it plays out if you complete the game.)

Edited November 11, 2012 by AGX-17