The Natural Philosopher Class

[metacontent]

Does anyone else wish they could play a Natural Philospher type of a class?

 

Don't say Wizard! Wizards are not scientists!

 

Yes Wizards study, yes Wizards learn, but they learn magic, not natural philosphy. (or as we call it today: science)

 

Where did catapults and siege engines come from? Natural Philosphy.

 

Natural Philosphers are badass. I would love to play a classed based on that idea.

 

Try to imagine: Richard Feynman + MacGyver, and if your head doesn't explode you're not doing it right.

[Hellfell]

Anton Sokolov wannabe! Throwing grenades around and rocking an arquebus shotgun? yes please

Edited October 31, 2012 by Hellfell

[BasaltineBadger]

They don't make good adventurers. It's not like you are using siege engines and catapults while exploring dungeons.

[Thangorodrim]

I am not opposed to an engineer or tinker class ... it just needs to be thought out so it fits in the game world and provides a balanced addition to the game ... since we are unlikely to encounter sieges in this game we wouldn't need to worry about that aspect of the character (catapults and Trebuchets and the like) so that leaves them with some sort of exotic ranged attack (crossbow like or grenade like) or some sort of observational or repair function (alternate to the rogue/thief) ... if it were properly designed and balanced it could work and add a little extra dimension to the game ... if it is not ... The Horror ... The Horror

[FlintlockJazz]

Anton Sokolov wannabe! Throwing grenades around and rocking an arquebus shotgun? yes please

 

I was going to say, looks like the OP has been playing Dishonored! :D While I am not normally all for a tinker class, I like them but they only fit certain settings like Steampunk, a more mundane version that makes things like gunpowder greanades (similar sort of things did exist) may not be too out of place.

Edited October 31, 2012 by FlintlockJazz

[Kane_Severance]

Look at Walter from Breaking Bad to see a good example of a scientist using his knowledge in badass ways.

Edited October 31, 2012 by Kane_Severance

[Nomine Vacans]

Wizard - is a character class, natural philosopher - concept that could be applied to a wide variety of classes.

Given wizard may study magic as set of mystical rituals, but also can comprehend it as interactions based on universal scientific laws (Clarke's third law, btw).

In AD&D Druid's handbook one of druid's character concepts was natural philosopher, so I guess this mentality can be applied to almost any class. It's more about roleplay than game mechanics itself.

Edited October 31, 2012 by Comedian

[FlintlockJazz]

Wizard - is a character class, natural philosopher - concept that could be applied to a wide variety of classes.

Given wizard may study magic as set of mystical rituals, but also can comprehend it as interactions based on universal scientific laws (Clarke's third law, btw).

In AD&D Druid's handbook one of druid's character concepts was natural philosopher, so I guess this mentality can be applied to almost any class. It's more about roleplay than game mechanics itself.

 

I fully agree and endorse this post with the full backing of white rabbitness.

[Osvir]

For some reason I'm thinking (due to the mention of "siege") that a heavy armored Wizard might use spells akin to siege magic somehow

 

There's a pretty cool AP dude in LoL that has crazy range (for being League of Legends)

[Karkarov]

Wizard - is a character class, natural philosopher - concept that could be applied to a wide variety of classes.

Given wizard may study magic as set of mystical rituals, but also can comprehend it as interactions based on universal scientific laws (Clarke's third law, btw).

In AD&D Druid's handbook one of druid's character concepts was natural philosopher, so I guess this mentality can be applied to almost any class. It's more about roleplay than game mechanics itself.

 

I fully agree and endorse this post with the full backing of white rabbitness.

 

Yeap, great post. Summed up my feelings on the subject to a T.

Edited October 31, 2012 by Karkarov

[metacontent]

Wizard - is a character class, natural philosopher - concept that could be applied to a wide variety of classes.

Given wizard may study magic as set of mystical rituals, but also can comprehend it as interactions based on universal scientific laws (Clarke's third law, btw).

In AD&D Druid's handbook one of druid's character concepts was natural philosopher, so I guess this mentality can be applied to almost any class. It's more about roleplay than game mechanics itself.

 

The problem though isn't the studying aspect, the problem is the manifestation of power.

 

Wizards shoot lightening bolts from their finger tips, and turn people into newts.

 

Druids similarly cause thunderstorms through willpower or through communion with nature.

 

A Natural Philospher would have an entirly DIFFERENT dynamic, although the end results might be similar.

 

A Natural Philosopher might use a device to shoot lightening, or might seed a cloud with debris to cause a thunderstorm, but it is clearly a different way of acomplishing the task, and the task would have a different and probably less controlable result.

 

Yes, they both study books a lot, but that is where the similarities end in my opinion.

Edited October 31, 2012 by metacontent

[Metabot]

Philosophy underpins science and natural philosophy.

[Durinax]

I would just rather not have classes, make it classless (unless you build to make a typical class (which I usually do not do))

[rjshae]

I'm not sure about that as a PC class; it seems better suited for an adventure from a Burroughs or Verne novel. Perhaps as a contact or a patron though. Mayhap a some-time companion on certain side quests?

Edited November 1, 2012 by rjshae

[mcmanusaur]

Perhaps the cipher class might have some such elements? Well, maybe not a natural philosopher, but still.

[Nomine Vacans]

 

The problem though isn't the studying aspect, the problem is the manifestation of power.

 

Wizards shoot lightening bolts from their finger tips, and turn people into newts.

 

Druids similarly cause thunderstorms through willpower or through communion with nature.

 

A Natural Philospher would have an entirly DIFFERENT dynamic, although the end results might be similar.

 

A Natural Philosopher might use a device to shoot lightening, or might seed a cloud with debris to cause a thunderstorm, but it is clearly a different way of acomplishing the task, and the task would have a different and probably less controlable result.

 

Yes, they both study books a lot, but that is where the similarities end in my opinion.

And how using some sort of device would be different from casting a spell, if you know exactly how and why this spell working? Or vice versa,

for many people there's no difference between magic and technology, since they don't care about technological aspects. They just push the button and device works. We live in a world full of "magic", we just keep telling ourselves that "this can be explained by scientific laws". Yes it can be explained by science, but can each of us personally explain with scientifically accurate detail every technological marvel what surround us? We just take it for granted. Is it prevent us from using technology?

Once again, Clarke's third law:

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

[rjshae]

Once again, Clarke's third law:

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

That's not a testable conjecture, and hence it's non-scientific. I therefore reject your reality and substitute my own.

Edited November 1, 2012 by rjshae

[Aldereth]

Does anyone else wish they could play a Natural Philospher type of a class?

 

Don't say Wizard! Wizards are not scientists!

 

Yes Wizards study, yes Wizards learn, but they learn magic, not natural philosphy. (or as we call it today: science)

 

Where did catapults and siege engines come from? Natural Philosphy.

 

Natural Philosphers are badass. I would love to play a classed based on that idea.

 

Try to imagine: Richard Feynman + MacGyver, and if your head doesn't explode you're not doing it right.

 

Seems like a more accurate description is an engineer. I think if correctly implemented and scripted, it can be interesting. They maynot even have to build a separate class for what you want. eg, a rogue subclass that specialize in crossbow, firearms, alchemy (with nades), traps and crafting skill enabling the building of specialize ammo, traps and other contraption like a turret like ballister or cataput.

 

Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing an actual philosopher that specialize in speech with a combat system that integrate speech ability into combat that can affect the PC party as well as enemy morale.

[jivex5k]

I is scientistic.

[metacontent]

And how using some sort of device would be different from casting a spell....

 

It is different because we are not talking about microchips, we're not talking about satelites, or radio technology.

 

We're talking about actual physical machines. A physical machine that turns and cranks and rotates.

 

How can you confuse a Catapult with magic?

 

Even if the Catapult shoots lightening instead of big rocks, it is still infinittely different than someone who speaks magical words of powers, and then shoots a bolt of lightening from their fingertips.

[Nteger]

In regards to combat, what sorts of skills or abilities would this Natural Philosopher have? The thing about wizards is they study magic so that they can cast spells, and they only study magic because they can cast spells in the first place. Gaining knowledge and understanding about natural law doesn't directly help you unless you can develop methods or devices that incorporate that knowledge (technology). The thing technology has over magic is the user doesn't necessarily have to understand how something works in order to be able to use it. The same goes for many magical devices. Maybe if there were certain items that only the natural philosopher could use because they require extensive training and understanding, I could see it being a class.

 

Outside of combat, what would they be able to do better than a warrior, thief, or mage who is versed in the scientific method, other than being pretentious about it?

[Nomine Vacans]

It is different because we are not talking about microchips, we're not talking about satelites, or radio technology.

 

We're talking about actual physical machines. A physical machine that turns and cranks and rotates.

 

How can you confuse a Catapult with magic?

 

Even if the Catapult shoots lightening instead of big rocks, it is still infinittely different than someone who speaks magical words of powers, and then shoots a bolt of lightening from their fingertips.

You do understand that magic is the same integral part of P:E world (reality, setting etc.) as electromagnetism part of both our world and P:E? Why do you opposing one natural part of game universe (magic) to another (wich can be summarised as classical mechanics)? There is no point in comparing development of natural philosophy (and natural science) in our reality (where "magic", in supernatural meaning of this word, does not exist) with game reality (where existance of magic and divine is a proven fact).

Arcanum's magic/tech comfrontation was an interesting design, but it's not the only way to picture relations between magic and technology.

Edited November 1, 2012 by Comedian

[.Leif.]

I think therefore I fireball.

[Tsuga C]

With the heavy emphasis on souls and the spiritual, I don't think that this class is a "natural" fit for P:E.

[fortuntek]

I think therefore I fireball.

 

I lol'd :D

 

Am now imagining a new class concept... the "Cartesian." Only class that can properly use the Comfy Armchair item. Class restrictions include: combat, dialogue, making money, or doing anything except existing

Edited November 2, 2012 by fortuntek