Weapon familiarity.

[Giantevilhead]

Some games have systems where the more you use a certain weapon or the more enemies you've killed with a certain weapon, the more effective it becomes. I think it would be interesting if Project Eternity included such a system for weapon, armor, and magic.

 

There are some obvious effects to weapon/magic familiarity like increased damage, hit chance, attack speed, etc. Similarly, greater familiarity with armor increases protection and reduces penalties.

 

There would be other effects like special abilities/attacks/spells that are easier to perform or has extra effects based on familiarity. Perhaps there could even be abilities/attacks/spells that actually require a certain amount of familiarity with a certain weapon/armor/spell.

 

The most obvious advantage of a familiarity system is that older equipment/spells remain viable throughout the entire game. A new weapon or armor may be more powerful than the one you have but since you're less familiar with them, you can't use them as effectively as your old equipment.

 

Certain weapons/armor/spell could also be easier to master than others so you can choose between a weapon/armor/spell that starts off weak but quickly increases in effectiveness/power due to faster familiarity or a weapon/armor/spell that starts off strong but takes a long time to master.

 

Additionally, there could be two layers of familiarity, one associated with the weapons/armor/spell you're using and one associated with the type. For example, when you use a dagger, you don't just gain familiarity with that specific dagger but also with all daggers or all daggers of that type. Of course, familiarity with specific weapons/armor/spell increases much faster than familiarity with type and you can gain familiarity with type by using more weapons/armor/spells of that type. They could convey different advantages and disadvantages. For example, having greater familiarity with the fireball spell makes fireballs cheaper, more powerful, faster, and less damaging to allies, but having greater familiarity with explosive type fire spells can allow you to create spell combos or more effectively resist/counter explosive type fire spells cast by enemies.

[AgentOrange]

Seems like a system that would be better suit for loot fest games, like Diablo. I don't like the idea of feeling as though my equipment or spells are never as good as they could be, simply because I don't use them all the time in every situation. I think investing points into weapon and spell schools is enough.

Edited October 29, 2012 by AgentOrange

[Soranor]

And there's another problem. You find a great new weapon, now you either lose the familiarity bonus or the great new weapon. Choosing weapon/armor proficiencies are enough limitations on equipment choice already.

[Giantevilhead]

Seems like a system that would be better suit for loot fest games, like Diablo. I don't like the idea of feeling as though my equipment or spells are never as good as they could be, simply because I don't use them all the time in every situation. I think investing points into weapon and spell schools is enough.

 

Except it's the opposite of a loot fest concept. You're actually encouraged to keep older equipment instead of constantly trying to trade up your equipment for better versions.

 

And there's another problem. You find a great new weapon, now you either lose the familiarity bonus or the great new weapon. Choosing weapon/armor proficiencies are enough limitations on equipment choice already.

 

That's the whole point. It's a system meant to keep weaker weapons/armors/spells more useful later in the game so you're not just throwing away a +1 sword for a +2 sword, then throwing that +2 sword away when you find a +3 sword, and so on.

[Nerei]

If the game is going to be anything like Baldurs gate then weapons do not really get thrown away casually, I usually stuck with weapons like Varscona until pretty much the end.

Also while the concept is interesting how are you going explain that I cannot replace a +1 longsword with a +2 version? There might be slight length and balancing differences but overall they should not be "that" different. I would also expect a master swordsman to be able to compensate for this quite fast.

 

Overall while I agree that going from a dagger to a lucerne hammer would be a major difference and might take some time to adapt to, it should still be fast if you are good at using the weapons and the a good user should adapt really fast from one longsword to another.

For such a system I would actually say that simply sticking with on like in the elderscrolls is better (ignoring individual weapon familarity), the more you use a weapon the better you get at using that type of weapon (if you got 97/100 in using longswords swapping from one to another should be easy and fairly fast).

Edited October 29, 2012 by Nerei

[rjshae]

While an approach like this is interesting, it may be too much of a detail to be worthwhile implementing. However, if it was included, I could see weapon type familiarity being implemented as an 'Accomplishment' with some suitable benefit (such as a bonus [or non-penalty] to special attacks like disarm or feint).

[Halric]

D&D Has a similar system that was the "Lengendary" items supplement for 3.5

 

It was built on the concept that some rare and powerful items actually gained levels with the character, but it wasn't guarenteed and the player had to make sacrifices for greater item power through rituals and the like (Some involved taking penalties to abilities). Sometimes, such rituals required certain conditions or reagents that were difficult to obtain like having to use the sword to kill a powerful demon or a rare gem not native to the prime material plane.

 

These items spawned fun side quests to make your weapon or armour truly lengendary, and you felt like your character was a central part of the history of the item.

 

We all pick up items like Varscona and read the history, but what if your character was the one who made the item so powerful in the beginning? It's an interesting concept.

[wanderon]

Too limiting for my liking - I tend to lean towards multiple weapons - in games where different weapons had different effects (blunt,slash, pierce) and different enemies/armor had different resistances to them I often had warriors carrying one of each and switching according to foe. Same thing with other weapon effects (fire, cold etc) vs enemies with rersistances or vulnerablity.

 

I don't want to keep the same weapon all game even if it gets a little better I want to find better stuff as I move on.

[Juneau]

Won't it all depend on how they do the story?

 

I mean if the story is about you being in the wrong place at the wrong time(right time for us gamers) starting of as an everyman/woman. Throw in the leveling system.

 

And you are in a position where you're character probably knows "something" So, gaining proficiency at another weapon/magics etc.. as you also gain the occasional new sill ability sounds like it could be an obvious choice for the way the game plays.

 

But thats just my opinion. I think weapon proficiency is a good idea (edler scrolls style - where you retain the general knowledge of each weapon/skill type)

 

 

Throwing it out there : Fable style weapons???

Edited October 29, 2012 by Juneau

[Huinehtar]

It reminds me some options from AD&D 2 Revised. An interesting rule that could be illustrated by some side quests like Arcanum's weapon mastery quests.

 

Or something like Dakkon's Blade in Torment.

[GhostofAnakin]

The one issue I have with this idea is that sometimes you're kind of stuck with a limited selection of weapons early on, so you're sort of forced to increase your ability in those. Then when you come across a better weapon-style later on, there's no point in using it since you're already much better with the other weapon.

 

Just an example of my current BG2 play through. Shortswords are plentiful in Irenicus' dungeon. I don't recall seeing a flail until D'Arnaise Keep's great Flail of the Ages. So until I got a chance to get the Flail for the Ages, my character's proficiency with flails would be zero, while his proficiency with the shortsword would be pretty good by that point. It would sort of make finding the Flail for the Ages irrelevant since I can't really use it with much proficiency anyway.

 

IMO, the scarcity of certain weapon types early on would be one of the bigger reasons I prefer players having the choice where to put skill increase points, rather than it being based on player weapon usage.

[Giantevilhead]

The familiarity bonus would not be so great as to make newer stuff useless. The point would be to make older weapons more on par with newer weapons, not to make them better. That rusty shortsword you get at the beginning of the game is never going to be as powerful as a +10 vorpal great ax of doom no matter how much familiarity you have with it.

[AGX-17]

Seems like a system that would be better suit for loot fest games, like Diablo. I don't like the idea of feeling as though my equipment or spells are never as good as they could be, simply because I don't use them all the time in every situation. I think investing points into weapon and spell schools is enough.

 

No, quite the opposite. Loot oriented games are all about tossing gear as soon as something better comes along, because something better always comes along. So often that there would be no benefit to such a system as this. The entire point of a concept of familiarity with a weapon is that it rewards the continued use of a weapon which may be outclassed by newer gear.

 

There's a New Vegas mod called "Signature Weapons" (http://newvegas.nexu....com/mods/43557) that basically does this, though it is easily exploitable since it doesn't prevent them from using it with, say, an AMR or Brush Gun. The idea behind the mod was to make low-tier weapons like .357 revolvers/rifles, laser weapons, 9 and 10mm guns and so on viable throughout the entire game by implementing a type of experience system for the weapon itself.

Edited October 30, 2012 by AGX-17

[Wulfic]

I would be more interested in something like in Skyrim. I love the system that if you are using a sword in combat you get properly rewarded for doing so. For example in BG it was strange that ur character used the whole time 2h sword and you still can invest points into axe or mace.

[Tamerlane]

I would be more interested in something like in Skyrim. I love the system that if you are using a sword in combat you get properly rewarded for doing so. For example in BG it was strange that ur character used the whole time 2h sword and you still can invest points into axe or mace.

On the other hand, if I spend a whole bunch of time swinging an axe at mother****ers, I'm probably gonna be pretty damn good at swinging a hammer at mother****ers.

 

Aside from that, it can feel awkward and... pigeonhole-y.

[BetrayTheWorld]

Well, the thread seems to be trending away from this idea OP, but I'm not one for going with the grain, so I'll speak up. I actually like your idea, but I think it would need to be implemented properly, and in the reverse of the example you gave.

 

For instance, I DO think you should be rewarded for using studded leather armor from start to finish, even though through in-game happenings your stats later came to a point where wearing regular leather would have been more statistically beneficial. But I think if this were done, more weight should be placed on the "type" familiarity than on the "individual item" familiarity. Though, both certainly have a place in this idea.

 

Obviously this wouldn't be the case with spells. I'm all for having spells weighted to the individual spell itself. You're a magic-missile happy mage? Great, you get REALLY good at flinging those things. Doesn't mean you're going to get that much more familiar with throwing a big fireball, even though both are evocation.

 

Anyhow, good initial idea. If handled and adjusted properly on a situational basis, I'd like to see it in game.

[Aldereth]

I personally like the idea of increased familiarity and any idea that promote players to develop a signature weapon. I mean, would we think less of Dirty Harry if he gave up his S&W for a M4 carbine? What if King Arthur gave up Excalibur for a +5 flaming vorpal sword? However, with the history and culture for cRPG especially in the North American market, this is going to be a tough sell. We love our gears. Look at the generally negative replies thus far.

 

 

Personally I love to see a combat system would have 2 component for damage+effects. The damage + effects from weapon skills and the damage + effect from weapon. This way, one may even throw class restriction for weapon out the window IF PROPERLY BALANCED. Can wizard use a long sword, yes if he has basic skill but he is doing standard damage.

[SophosTheWise]

Seems like a system that would be better suit for loot fest games, like Diablo. I don't like the idea of feeling as though my equipment or spells are never as good as they could be, simply because I don't use them all the time in every situation. I think investing points into weapon and spell schools is enough.

 

Not at all. In the Pathfinder RPG (which is essentially D&D 3.75) there is Weapon proficiency for example.