Suggestion: Merchant class?

[Ivan Bajlo]

probably too late to squeeze into the budget (maybe in expansion?) or someone already suggested it...

 

 

Basically a class for more senior gamers who want to finally become that fat merchant character who made fortune on them in every RPG they ever played.

 

 

You start with ridicules amount of gold you made by selling crappy overpriced equipment to adventures and buying their loot for pocket change and you got idea that you might make even more money by cutting out the middleman and going after the loot yourself!

 

Despite having ability to sell vegetables to Ogres and having money to buy best equipment possible, your combat abilities are so bad that even for rats in your basement you have to constantly hire new customers which enter your shop in order to buy cheapest sword possible.

 

In short merchant class would have unique ability to buy from almost any other NPC (named or generic) at discount prices and sell to merchants at nice profit (trading with other merchants would be at real price so you don't make or lose anything unless the game will have trading system which allows you to buy in one town and sell in another for more), also any artifact they get their hands on would bring them piles of gold since they are well connected. On the downside they must spend their money on personal bodyguard(s) or risk getting robbed (mo money mo problems, but at lest you make new cash fast without the need to kill dozens of enemies).

 

As such you are forced to hire some mercenaries and since famous adventures (NPC) cost a fortune (and don't really like you because you were ripping them of for years) and you being a cheapskate (and don't want to risk bankruptcy) decided to hire some crappy soldiers, rouges, novice mages... generic NPC is ok, although it would be more fun if we had individual soldiers which could be equipped by player using that huge amount of gold for first class gear only to be slaughtered in seconds by experienced enemy.

 

We would need some loyalty/morale/happiness system for mercenaries since they get paid weekly/monthly and depending on how well they are treated (lot of casualties, too long outside towns/taverns, lack of money, bad food...) they will act and might decided to desert or even flee if combat is going badly leaving player alone or worse deciding to rob the player themselves! Like in Mount & Blade morale would depend on the numbers also so while player could hire dozens of soldiers, mages, rouges it would be impossible to keep them (after all player is only greedy merchant not charismatic leader) so for large parties expenses would skyrocket (but since in most RPG your are drowning in money in late game that wouldn't be a big problem).

 

Mercenaries mix would also play a big role since foot soldiers only party would easily be ambushed or killed by traps, so player would still need to hire good rogue or ranger, as well as mage and priest.

 

In combat mercenaries would fight without player control using their own AI (besides basic commands attack, stand ground, retreat, again you are greedy merchant not strategic genius) which depends on their level what is the main purpose of merchant class - reducing amount of player burden but still leaving that cool frustration when battle goes wrong because you underestimated your enemy. Of course during combat player character would be parading around in shining armor collecting lot from dead enemies and finishing off those practically dead. Developing combat/magic skills would be discourage because you would need more and more money as your party becomes stronger = more expensive and developing yourself into weak fighter instead of better merchant would be pointless.

 

Mercenaries system could be used by other classes but expenses and crappy combat performance would make them useful only as canon fodder on very difficult quests but since loyalty/morale would start low for fresh troops (unless you get them drunk at tavern first ) they would probably run away at the start of the battle.

 

Reputation system would play big role because while doing favors and having good reputation would mean you could count on someone coming to your aid (like Mysterious Stranger from Fallout) if you get ambushed it would also cut into your profit margin while on the other hand having bad reputation and tons of gold would draw every bandit, thief and other adventures towards you. Maybe some quest which makes you enemy of another faction/race or if you refuse to pay big tax/tribute to someone and have to evade them?

 

Other possibilities that come to mind are adding trading wagon to your party which makes you extra money in each town you visit but slows you down and attracts even more bandits, Orc/Goblin war parties etc.

 

Of course player could just stick to trading in town and make absurd amount of gold in neverending game.

Edited October 29, 2012 by Ivan Bajlo

[Pipyui]

Where's the "tl;dr" option in your poll above?

 

I kid, but what it sounds to me like you described is a way to play the game, for those of us who hate fun.

As much as I enjoy being a masochist, I think I'll pass on being a merchant.

[Ivan Bajlo]

Where's the "tl;dr" option in your poll above?

 

added

 

I kid, but what it sounds to me like you described is a way to play the game, for those of us who hate fun.

As much as I enjoy being a masochist, I think I'll pass on being a merchant.

 

while I like playing godlike hero's I often find myself wanting to play the game again but then I remember that I would need to start all over again as some crappy character with crappy equipment and go around killing crappy enemies until I make enough cash for some quality gear and to get my stats up to acceptable levels which would allow me to survive in combat for longer then few seconds (enough to run away if its going badly )

 

and entire time I have to sell my lot at the fraction of what it is worth...

 

plus fighting big boss battles in which boss send dozens of his minions to their deaths to slow me down... I also want to be able to do that!

Edited October 29, 2012 by Ivan Bajlo

[Tamerlane]

Huh. I thought this thread would be asking about the role and position of the merchant class in PE society would be.

 

I don't even know if I'm disappointed or not.

[-Zin-]

Ivan... Having a lot of gold isn't a class restricting trait I can't even count the games where I've broken the economy by just playing as a hero. (In games like PE, heroes/villains are usually effortlessly famous and are important enough to naturally attract the attention of other wealthy people without thinking about it anyway) "I'm Commander Shepard, and this is my favorite store on the citadel." Blammo. Instant store discount.

 

If the player can purchase property, then it would just be easier to have that option available for all classes. I mean, take Fable 2. You essentially earn a few thousand in the start, then buy the first black-smith stall. You then set the taxes to super low, and then you buy out all the weapons from it before switching the store to max tax/profit while you're out travelling. As you travel to a new town, you sell your cheap weapons for normal prices to other shops not owned by you. You can even look at the quest log to see which towns currently have highest tax rates and will offer more for your weapons. After selling all the 'cheaply bought' weapons for a higher price, you now sit with a high income. Repeat the process until you have so much money you don't need to earn anymore. Now, you can buy all the shops and houses, and if you're a good guy, you lower the tax on everything as much as possible. The public now loves you and you're as rich as Scrooge McDuck!

 

I know that's Fable 2, but I think that's how you would make an economic system work. I wouldn't mind if there was a system like that, but I did wish Fable 2 would have a better story/better written characters with dialouge exchange. Now this is Obsidian, so I doubt there will be a problem there and they can have a similar system if they so want it, but I outright reject the premise of a class specific trait to mastering the economical situation of a fantasy setting. Needlessly restricting and it sounds like an entirely different game.

 

EDIT: Also, if you found this post fun/enjoyable to read, then I think you should just stop fighting it and work at the stockmarket already and leave this game alone. I tried to read what I just wrote and I'm already bored.

Edited October 29, 2012 by -Zin-

[Ivan Bajlo]

Ivan... Having a lot of gold isn't a class restricting trait

 

That is the whole point, you have tons of gold but you totally suck at combat so you have to carefully manage your party in order to finish the game but even if most of your merc party gets wiped out because you thought that dragon will be easy no need to load old save just recruit new guys and carry on (with "Dragon survivor perk - bonus when running away from big things ).

 

I know that's Fable 2, but I think that's how you would make an economic system work. I wouldn't mind if there was a system like that, but I did wish Fable 2 would have a better story/better written characters with dialouge exchange. Now this is Obsidian, so I doubt there will be a problem there and they can have a similar system if they so want it, but I outright reject the premise of a class specific trait to mastering the economical situation of a fantasy setting. Needlessly restricting and it sounds like an entirely different game.

 

Wow sounds like fun, unfortunately didn't find the time to play any of the Fable series games yet , but now i know what I'll play until Wasteland 2 and PE are finished.

[nikolokolus]

When did RPGs become the Sims?

[-Zin-]

Well, honestly, I think you're not the only one who has requested a fantasy game where you take up a way more passive role to a giant conflict.

 

I read on the Fable forums a lot of times, that many people wish they could do menial chores like carrying crates from the delivery ship to the local taverns, play a regular farmer tending to his farm, and occasionally having to hire heroes to fend off bandits from him farm, or just being a travelling merchant.. But it's definetly not a game I would want one of the greatest RPGs makers to make. I'm very happy with the standard RPG formula improved each time it's made, thank you very much

 

For instance.. Fable The Journey for kinnect actually took this idea to mind. You play a travelling gypsy riding a horse cart through a pleasant scenery. You spend most of your time looking at a horse's bum as you steer your caravan-wagon. There are some small periods where you leave the cart to do some fighting, but mostly, you just ride a horse-wagon This part was reported to be boring as sin however. Also, in Fable 2-3 you could get more normal jobs as a black-smith, bard, bartender, wood-cutter, or a baker to earn cash... but it's just repetetive and is a hated feature. But it's necessary to do it, or at least for a LITTLE bit until you can start doing some very smart investments/trading. But most people won't know about the money in trading because few are gonna play the game more than once, and they'll intuitively think in the first play-through that grinding-work is the best way to earn money. After the first play-through most people are most likely to think: "God. That was awful. I think I can live my life having never ever to play that game again (unless you like achievements like me). The main reason you want to do normal work in fable is because being a hero alone doesn't pay you very well. But I find that to be very flawed logic in game-design. I think that heroes travelling to ancient ruins and selling the relics should make you a lot of profit, but Fable 2-3 says: "Nah. If you earned too much gold from that 'boring' questing-business, then there would be no point to our way more boring job-mechanic." And that's the thing.. the jobs are boring as sin. You just put on your iPod and just look blankly at the screen as you earn money SLOOOOWLY... At some point, it's just better to buy some shops, set high income leave your xbox on for the night and let the income from rent slowly build up, but at least you don't have to play the game.. Then when you're playing again and want more purity level, you just lower the prices and have it like that from then on. You already got the money so and people will forgive you eventually..

 

Point is.. there are already some games out there that are mildly to what you want, but I rather just worry about saving/destroying the kingdom and somehow let the financial aspect sort of taking care of itself. Obsidian makes great stories and conflicts and I don't want too much boring normal stuff getting in the way of that.

Edited October 29, 2012 by -Zin-

[-Zin-]

When did RPGs become the Sims?

 

Since Fable 2-3?

Edited October 29, 2012 by -Zin-

[BasaltineBadger]

I don't really think that this idea fits what P:E is shaping up to be but there already greedy fantasy merchant simulator:

 

[Ivan Bajlo]

Well, honestly, I think you're not the only one who has requested a fantasy game where you take up a way more passive role to a giant conflict.

 

Not so much passive role to a giant conflict as passive on battlefield (not having to kill everything myself) for example I like the way I can create high charisma character in Mount & Blade (with poor combat stats) which allows me to recruit large merc party from the start so while I'm barely able to defend myself I have like 40-50+ soldiers under my command doing most of the work with me acting as commander. Initially it was fun developing character with powerful fighting skills but once you realize that as horse archer/lancer you can single-handedly defeat any army, all that killing gets boring especially constantly having to dodge spearmen/pikeman.

 

Of course having max of only 5 NPC makes things little more tricky, you can't really afford to have half of them die (although most RPG have some sort of raise dead, not sure if they will have permanent NPC deaths in some game mode) and say it was a good battle, hopefully there will be plenty of NPC to pick from.

 

And stop talking about Fable... I was planing to play NWN2 next, currently finishing Chapter 2 in Risen, I'm already badly behind in my gaming.

[Ivan Bajlo]

I don't really think that this idea fits what P:E is shaping up to be but there already greedy fantasy merchant simulator:

 

Not enough blood.

[BasaltineBadger]

I don't really think that this idea fits what P:E is shaping up to be but there already greedy fantasy merchant simulator:

 

Not enough blood.

 

You can explore dungeons if you'd like.

[Dawn_]

When did RPGs become the Sims?

 

Damn you Peter Molyneux !

[rjshae]

Merchant abilities could be implemented using talent trees, if the designers choose to take that route. Otherwise, I think you're pretty much stuck with tailoring a rogue using merchant-like skills (appraise, diplomacy, lore?).

Edited October 29, 2012 by rjshae

[Hellfell]

Age of decadence has a full fledged merchant class which can finish the game without fighting at all

[Juneau]

OP - Look at the Mount and Blade series of games. I've been playing them on and off for years. One of my games I was a big fat merchant who happened to own his own army/castle in the end.

 

Though it didn't much allow you to have multiple caravans etc.. It's a good game.

 

As for in this game. I dunno..... I think it could be a good idea BUT saying that I don't want them to cut back from what they promised to include it. As an expansion or something I would play it/buy it IF it was invested in.

[Aldereth]

I think the rogue class would pretty much cover the travelling merchant. But the bigger problem is that the plot would have to have a merchant/trade/business facet to support the merchant (sub)class and to make it interesting and I question how many people would be interested in roleplaying a merchant.

 

And let's not forget how useless gold is at late game in any cRPG,

[Ivan Bajlo]

OP - Look at the Mount and Blade series of games. I've been playing them on and off for years. One of my games I was a big fat merchant who happened to own his own army/castle in the end.

 

Played M&B way too much, only problem in M&B is lack of epic storyline, well any kind of storyline, but with all kinds of mods available you barely notice it.

 

But my post isn't so much about playing as merchant but as some kind of merc commander like I do in M&B but that wouldn't make a lot of sense in PE since game will be optimized for maximum party size of 6 so greedy merchant sounds a lot more fun (and gives you a completely different gaming style with less party micromanagement) and shouldn't be to complicated to add. Merc system is much more complex thing but since it could be used by any class it would add nice addition to the game giving it more depth (hire a merc to help your poor mage do some early quest without reloading hundred times and if merc dies no need to reload ), you would be able to chose between using your reputation to gain NPC companions or simply using cash which in turn could give more interaction options (other NPC who joined you for free don't like the idea that your paying lot of cash just because you wanted to recruit that uber mage and decided they want to be paid too! ), also ability to hire some generic NPC soldiers as canon fodder for though battles would allow to add some really epic battles into the game, your party of 6 plus 10-20 merc soldiers versus beholder... and beholder wins!

 

I don't like it when your NPC party becomes so powerful it can always win without any help, for truly epic battle there should always be a need for allies (who steal your experience and best loot ) so I do hope that in PE reputation system will at lest mean that when you go against impossible odds someone will join you to give you a hand (and sacrifice to save your life and allow you to loot their dead body ).

[Ivan Bajlo]

I think the rogue class would pretty much cover the travelling merchant. But the bigger problem is that the plot would have to have a merchant/trade/business facet to support the merchant (sub)class and to make it interesting and I question how many people would be interested in roleplaying a merchant.

 

But rogue can fight, disarm traps... whole point is to give completely different (challenging, you got gold but can't to anything yourself) gameplay style, basically after you finish the game in normal way and would like to play it again to explore other options without the need to micromanage each fight again... just sit back, relax and watch how that monster trashes your expensive merc force you so carefully assembled.

 

EDIT (forgot your second comment), as for plot/quests there is no need for to much change, maybe adding some class specific but any standard quest would still work normally with difficult choice of improving your reputation and losing money or overcharging the reward in order to have more gold to pay for better mercs.

 

And let's not forget how useless gold is at late game in any cRPG,

 

That is why merc system (I should have made separate topic for that) would make sense, something to do with all that gold... seems kind of logical that if had tons of gold (and fame) you could easily recruit extra troops, of course your NPC party wouldn't like it at all and if you decided to recruit too many merc for too long your party could split apart and maybe even battle each other especially if pick some really evil mercs for your good party (or wrong faction/rep). OTOH your NPC party members could tell you that your party has no chance to kill certain beast or storm that dungeon/castle (even refuse to follow you to certain death especially at low level unlike what we normally see in cRPG "we follow you blindly each time you reload the game after we all got killed") and that you should go to nearest town and recruit few mercs to help (or if you reputation is high enough there is faction party there to aid your quest).

Edited October 29, 2012 by Ivan Bajlo

[Huinehtar]

Since jobs and classes aren't really the same thing, and I found in an update that OE will distinct them, so a "merchant" class won't exist, but trading will be in for sure.

 

Why not the famous archetype: a thief being a fence (like the AD&D kit)?

[Archmage Silver]

I don't think I've ever played an RPG with a merchant class... and frankly, that's always been for a good reason. That class just doesn't work outside P&P games.

[Tsuga C]

No, thank you. I'm here for roleplaying and adventure, not taking inventory at the end of the month. I'll pass.

[Thangorodrim]

I wouldn't mind seeing a merchant skill that gives you better abilities at buying and selling and I wouldn't mind having some sort of shop perhaps as an expansion to your stronghold but I wouldn't want a merchant class ... although the thought of the unique items like the +4 purse of bartering and the belt of infinite bargains does give one pause

[Hormalakh]

Couldn't a rogue be a merchant sub-class? That's the way I've always seen merchants anyway, a bunch of bloody thieves and robbers....