Interview with Josh Sawyer on Design and Mechanics

[Shevek]

We have our method of picking locks for our kinds of locks. Perhaps advanced locks in PE could be a bit more intricate and thus picks in this world may be thinner and more susceptible to break. Who knows...

[Monte Carlo]

Can we ram a bag of black powder into the mock mechanism and blow the mutha up instead?

[Tamerlane]

Can we ram a bag of black powder into the mock mechanism and blow the mutha up instead?

I loved how KotOR 2 handled lock bashing, making it feasible but with the risk of destroying the contents of a container.

 

Kinda trivialized door locks, though...

[Monte Carlo]

If they have firearms in the game they really need to consider the fact that we'll want to use them to shoot at locks.

 

I never played either of the KotOR games, but liked the NWN2 mechanic that was similar. All containers and locks, unless especially armoured / complex / magical should be destroyable.

[Huinehtar]

Thanks Sensuki for sharing this interview!

 

Concerning "great women/men" of History, leading revolts (with success or not), I recommend the "Book of Ash" (or "Ash: A Secret History") written by Mary Gentle, it's a great SciFi/Fantasy story (even if Mary Gentle herself consider these novels more as SciFi than Fantasy, that I agree), concerning some kind of utopia/"alternative past" in the late middle ages.

[septembervirgin]

Hey, I just sort of thought *some* people didn't want bundles of skeleton key disintegrating lockpicks to add a 1:1 bonus to lockpicking skill. So there it is. If you genuinely love the idea, love it further. If you're just leaping to the defense of a concept that really shouldn't arise as a reality, go for that too.

 

I guess I'm the only one who doesn't like the idea of ablative lock picks.

 

As to lock picks being made on the sly, hey, I guess they're not bought in *stores* then? I sorta imagined it would be like security spikes. If lockpicks are being made, there's probably a tradition to making them, and craft technique improves over time. Given no real shortage in iron (unless there is a shortage in iron) and given that some lockpicks are likely to be superior in quality to other lockpicks, the superior lockpicks would be chosen over inferior lockpicks.

 

But any set of rationales could be given to having icicle lockpicks. I really don't care to defend my position any further, as imagination can be berated at length without agreement. And I am obviously not the only one who feels that lockpicks shouldn't be self-eliminating -- if there's not just one Furry in the world, there's at least three were-tigers. So I can use "we" with impunity, even if I'm impugned as royalty for using the term. It's not really the royal we, just an assumptive we.

Edited October 28, 2012 by septembervirgin

[Karranthain]

If they have firearms in the game they really need to consider the fact that we'll want to use them to shoot at locks.

 

I never played either of the KotOR games, but liked the NWN2 mechanic that was similar. All containers and locks, unless especially armoured / complex / magical should be destroyable.

 

I would've liked that. But I hope that the ammo won't be plentiful enough to render that choice a no-brainer.

[Slumpy]

In the spirit of taking a single developer comment and blowing it up out of all proportion, I was interested in finding out about Josh's taste in music. I would personally like to see those influences feed into the soundtrack of the game.

 

I'm also interested in the concept of saints in a world where gods are a matter of fact rather than faith. It seems like a bunch of work has already been done on world background and history - that's the stuff that I'm looking forward to, more so than mechanical details.

[Sensuki]

I haven't seen Justin mention anything that wasn't classically based so far

[Shevek]

If they have firearms in the game they really need to consider the fact that we'll want to use them to shoot at locks.

 

I never played either of the KotOR games, but liked the NWN2 mechanic that was similar. All containers and locks, unless especially armoured / complex / magical should be destroyable.

 

Well, we had acid sprays and fireballs before and couldnt use those.

[Monte Carlo]

^ That's a very good point, perhaps they could change it with a context box for that ability?

[JFSOCC]

Also, the "mechanic tools" analogy is faulty. Someone who isn't a master mechanic can, in fact, break master craft mechanic tools. And that's what we're discussing here.... a character with 75 lockpicking skill trying to use a tool to pick a lock that is otherwise beyond his skills to pick. Who's to say that he's not breaking that lockpick because he's using it wrong?

if he's using it wrong it shouldn't confer a bonus.

and I can tell you that I absolutely hated the oblivion lockpicks.

[Rabain]

I thought I'd put a link to some of the Hudson River School art, mentioned as inspiration in the interview. A lot of the images have a similar feel to the screenshot we got, I have to say I like it.

 

http://www.metmuseum...urs/hd_hurs.htm

[Jaesun]

All containers and locks, unless especially armoured / complex / magical should be destroyable.

 

Agreed that was a great thing. But also the high chance items within will break if you are not using a skill that should not cause damage to the items inside.

[Ieo]

I thought I'd put a link to some of the Hudson River School art, mentioned as inspiration in the interview. A lot of the images have a similar feel to the screenshot we got, I have to say I like it.

 

http://www.metmuseum...urs/hd_hurs.htm

 

Interesting. I wondered what that meant, and I had never heard the term "artistic fraternity" before. I'm still waiting for more cool stuff from the Obsidian artist who originally did the first Sagani pic.

 

As a side comment about the lockpicking business--did the mage spell Knock have a chance to fail? I never actually used it...

[J.E. Sawyer]

I approach the design of mechanics with a desire to create an interesting choice for the player. Standard pass/fail checks (randomized or threshold) don't typically involve any element of choice; the choice you made was part of a character building process that took place far removed from the challenge currently in front of you. In most circumstances, this means that once you're at the challenge, you either can make the check or you can't. There's not any choice to make. If you have a consumable resource that can cover a marginal shortfall, then you do have a choice.

 

Realism is important to me, but it is of secondary importance to producing good gameplay and choices within gameplay. Realism is valuable because it can a) provide an intuitive basis for how a mechanic works and b) it can prevent the player from being distracted/annoyed by something that doesn't make sense. I keep verisimilitude in mind when designing mechanics, but I generally try to "back" the realism into the gameplay rather than trying to make good gameplay out of a realistic simulation.

[Monte Carlo]

Josh how difficult would it be to implement destroyable doors / locks / items?

[Grand_Commander13]

I agree that realism and good gameplay must be made to work together, which is why I love the idea of a consumable resource to make up the shortfall in skill. All I'd quibble is making the consumable resource for lockpicking actual lockpicks. It could be an aspect of the character's soul energy that they need to pay to recharge, etc... Just not lockpicks.

[Ignatius]

Thank you for this. I love hearing Sawyer talk about this stuff. He's a smart dude.

[Slumpy]

I agree that realism and good gameplay must be made to work together, which is why I love the idea of a consumable resource to make up the shortfall in skill. All I'd quibble is making the consumable resource for lockpicking actual lockpicks. It could be an aspect of the character's soul energy that they need to pay to recharge, etc... Just not lockpicks.

 

I like the skill + consumable idea a lot as well, and I'm with you on the specific example of lockpicks too. There must be a load of skill areas that don't have an obvious 'consumable' aspect to them (picking pockets? haggling? lock picking!?). Would you restrict this mechanism to skills that use tools, or go with something other than physical resources?

[AW8]

Thanks Sensuki, I like the mechanic of augmenting skill shortfalls with equipment, i.e. "buying" the difference in resources.

 

I do know that we want to allow the player to account for a marginal shortfall in skill requirement with resource consumption. E.g. if you need a 75 to pick a lock but you have a 65 Lockpicking skill, you can still open the lock for a cost of 10 lockpicks. This wouldn't apply if the skill is too far from the requirement (e.g. a 45 Lockpicking skill would be too low), but it does allow for a little more flexibility.

Yeah, me too. Sounds more fun than "You can pick this lock" or "You can't pick this lock" with nothing inbetween.

 

I loved how KotOR 2 handled lock bashing, making it feasible but with the risk of destroying the contents of a container.

 

Kinda trivialized door locks, though...

Yes, an improvement over KotOR where Security was (if I recall correctly) absolutely pointless!

 

For P:E, lockbashing would add yet another way of opening a chest, at the expense of some of the items inside. And the problem with bashing open doors could be solved by making locked doors sturdy enough that you can't bash them open. That would make more sense too - why would someone lock a weak door in a dungeon if a trespasser can simply break the door down?

Edited October 28, 2012 by AW8

[Stun]

On the other hand, if a mage's lightning bolt can fry multiple armored enemies to goo, then why can't it break the hinges off a door?

Edited October 28, 2012 by Stun

[Ignatius]

On the other hand, if a mage's lightning bolt can fry multiple armored enemies to goo, then why can't it break the hinges off a door?

 

Your wizard blasts the lock with a bolt of lightning. The lock melts and the door is now welded shut.

[Stun]

Or he casts disentigrate on the door. The door is now gone.

[Orogun01]

Or he casts disentigrate on the door. The door is now gone.

And then the cops know it was a mage, with you being the only other mage in town aside from the court adviser you get -10 reputation with that town.