Arsenal in Project Eternity.

[rjshae]

Surely role play is a good place to start? The type of character who uses a raipier is going to be different to one that uses a longsword or warhammer, whereas one who uses a raipier might also use a dagger or a short bow. As such weapons could be grouped under general notions of play-style, and contribute to the construction of characters rather then purely being reduced to stats and numbers.

The practical aspects of the weapons are what tie them into role playing. The rapier is a civilian weapon, intended for unencumbered combat; whereas the longsword or warhammer are meant for warfare. The latter in particular is primarily for use against plate armor. It's not a contradiction to have a soldier carry a warhammer into battle then later roam the city streets carrying a rapier.

[Heron]

I quite agree, and it is this narrative difference that separates them rather then stat points. A thief might never put down his rapier and poisons even on the largest battlefield, whereas a paladin might refuse to take off his heavy armour or put down his great sword even when entering a city. This is what the style of play should reflect when 'classing' weapons into one category or another.

[Greensleeve]

I'd like to see decent variation between weapons, and a decent amount of them. Morrowind is a pretty good example of amount of different weapons available, but unfortunately, they didn't really play all that differently. Long Blade, Axe and Blunt sort of played in the same way, then Short Blade and Spears played in their own ways. That's ok, but not great. Bastion is a game where each weapon plays and feels significantly different from one another, but there is only one instance of each weapon type, there aren't multiple weapons within each weapon type.

 

Something really quite important to me, however, is an ability to easily switch between weapons. I want to be able to walk around with a musket equipped, shoot once combat is entered, then easily switch to a melee weapon and join the fray.

[jethro]

Ideally the character should change from ranged weapon to melee weapon automatically. This is a nobrainer, not a tactically deep decision.

[Karranthain]

Ideally the character should change from ranged weapon to melee weapon automatically. This is a nobrainer, not a tactically deep decision.

 

 

I'd like to see decent variation between weapons, and a decent amount of them. Morrowind is a pretty good example of amount of different weapons available, but unfortunately, they didn't really play all that differently. Long Blade, Axe and Blunt sort of played in the same way, then Short Blade and Spears played in their own ways. That's ok, but not great. Bastion is a game where each weapon plays and feels significantly different from one another, but there is only one instance of each weapon type, there aren't multiple weapons within each weapon type.

 

Something really quite important to me, however, is an ability to easily switch between weapons. I want to be able to walk around with a musket equipped, shoot once combat is entered, then easily switch to a melee weapon and join the fray.

 

Pistols could be used as quick-slot items (like potions or scrolls in Infinity games), for ease of use.

[Karranthain]

Surely role play is a good place to start? The type of character who uses a raipier is going to be different to one that uses a longsword or warhammer, whereas one who uses a raipier might also use a dagger or a short bow. As such weapons could be grouped under general notions of play-style, and contribute to the construction of characters rather then purely being reduced to stats and numbers.

The practical aspects of the weapons are what tie them into role playing. The rapier is a civilian weapon, intended for unencumbered combat; whereas the longsword or warhammer are meant for warfare. The latter in particular is primarily for use against plate armor. It's not a contradiction to have a soldier carry a warhammer into battle then later roam the city streets carrying a rapier.

 

I'm not an expert, but I think it should've been smallswords, not rapiers. The latter were widely used in warfare.

Edited October 26, 2012 by Karranthain

[HansKrSG]

Not quite sure what option would be the right one. but I think there should be some main groups with subsets that behave differently in a realtively logical way. IE: Bladed weapons/swords: 2-handed swords, 1 handed swords, shortswords. Pole weapons: short spear, long spear, Halberd, etc. etc.

Of course, some weapons should probably behave much the same, but with logical differences, like a better reach with a long spear, than a short spear, for example.

 

I see no nead for having too similar weapons, like: 2-handed sword, Claymore, Flamberg in the same game. Thats just superfluous.

Edited October 26, 2012 by HansKrSG

[Tsuga C]

I'll take category #2, please, though I do still enjoy the variety of weapons and their constituent adjustments "to hit" for damage in my AD&D Players's Handbook. Ah, now those were the days...

[GrandMasterJR]

I'm kind of torn on this because I want both! I want a large variety of weapons and I want them all the behave differently ha ha. However I understand that from a developement point of view that would be a nightmare on many fronts.

 

I guess the compromise is to have a subsets of weapons. For example, bladed weapons, axes, maces, spears... but I also like single handed, duel wielding, and two handed varieties.

 

I like it when weapons have different damage types and everything... slashing, piercing and crushing, etc, plus different weapon types having different advantages.

 

Axes / Swords could potentially leave wounds with bleeding damage, crushing attacks with maces or hammers could leave a target disoreintated, knock them down, or drain stamina.

[Toombs]

I'm all for large varieties of basically everything, since the modern day principle in the creation of video games seems to be dumbing down absolutely everything. That being said I also have to say that variation only needs to be, where it has to be.

 

Long Swords, Katanas, Scimitars and the like basically behave the same way. What kind of advantage would it be if they were separated into different categories(or skills) like curved sword, longsword and"exotic" sword?

The same applies to Twohanded Swords like the Bidenhander, Claymore, Espadon, etc). Same(or at least very similar) basic principle for usage in combat.

 

Polearms can be divided into Pole Axe (Halberd, Bardiche, Glaive, Naginata, Guan Dao, Voulge) and Spear (Pike, Ranseur, Partisan, Guisarme). Weapons in the category Pole Axe have a Blade for slashing/hacking the enemy to pieces at a distance/hit them when they are mounted and weapons in the Spear category are mainly used for Impaling enemies and getting them from the backs of their horses.

 

Do we really need more ?

As long as there is the option to choose a Talent/Feat to specialize in a specific weapon subtype, we should all be fine

[Karranthain]

Long Swords, Katanas, Scimitars and the like basically behave the same way. What kind of advantage would it be if they were separated into different categories(or skills) like curved sword, longsword and"exotic" sword?

The same applies to Twohanded Swords like the Bidenhander, Claymore, Espadon, etc). Same(or at least very similar) basic principle for usage in combat.

 

Rapiers are definitely quite different from longswords, despite their superficial similarities (and the fact that they're sharing the same basic function). Fighting techniques are definitely distinct.

 

Whether that level of detail of desirable is, however, debatable - hence the poll

[BetrayTheWorld]

I don't feel like this poll includes all available options, so I've abstained from voting. There is no reason you can't have a good number of weapon types and subsets that all have unique behaviors/features to them.

Edited October 31, 2012 by BetrayTheWorld

[Continuum]

I'd like to see weapon selection guided by some basic characteristics:

 

Type of damage - crushing (hammer/mace) vs slashing (swords, axes) vs piercing (spears, arrows) being incorporated in to both weapon and armor type to provide some meaningful distinctions between weapons other than just DPS.

 

Range - different between one-handed melee weapons, two-handed melee weapons, polearms, short ranged, long ranged

 

Speed - should be a massive difference in speed between a dagger and a polearm, crossbow and a short bow

 

Damage per hit - obvious, polearm should do much more damage than a dagger

 

Varying those four things would create meaningful differences in weapons. Every game differentiates melee vs ranged, fast vs slow, but adding in three different physical damage types and 2-3 different melee ranges would make all the different.

 

I don't expect Obsidian to come up with different animations for every weapon. Make the animation based on weapon class - dagger, 1H swords, 1H axes, 1H club weapons, 2H swords, 2H axes, 2H club weapons, polearms, throwing weapons, bows, crossbows. Could probably combine axe and club animations if needed. Basically link the weapon animation to rough size/shape with range being the big differentiator. Then weapons within a class could be differentiated not only by damage and speed but also by the type of damage to differentiate them. This creates a large variety of weapons without generating an insanely complex system or the need to animate dozens of different attacks.

[Karranthain]

I don't feel like this poll includes all available options, so I've abstained from voting. There is no reason you can't have a good number of weapon types and subsets that all have unique behaviors/features to them.

 

That would be correct for a combat-focused game (i.e. ToEE); as far as we know PE won't be one - hence the poll.

Edited November 1, 2012 by Karranthain

[wanderon]

I don't feel like this poll includes all available options, so I've abstained from voting. There is no reason you can't have a good number of weapon types and subsets that all have unique behaviors/features to them.

 

That would be correct for a combat-focused game (i.e. ToEE); as far as we know PE won't be one - hence the poll.

 

Not sure what you mean here - there is certainly going to be combat in PE and isn't that pretty much the only part of the game that weapons would be designed and implemented for?

[Karranthain]

I don't feel like this poll includes all available options, so I've abstained from voting. There is no reason you can't have a good number of weapon types and subsets that all have unique behaviors/features to them.

 

That would be correct for a combat-focused game (i.e. ToEE); as far as we know PE won't be one - hence the poll.

 

Not sure what you mean here - there is certainly going to be combat in PE and isn't that pretty much the only part of the game that weapons would be designed and implemented for?

 

It meant that the focus will be different - that's why I brought up ToEE, which has an incredibly robust combat system, but not much in the way of story or dialogue. In other words, I simply hold an opinion that expecting PE to have a large variety of unique weapons is simply unrealistic - hence the poll options.

[Shevek]

I want to see many different weapons that fall into subsets sorted by damage type and size.

[Karranthain]

I've mentioned this before, but how about implementing weapons perks? E.g.

 

1) Harder to parry against (Flamberge)

2) Tiring to use. (Greatswords)

3) Light. (Smallsword)

4) Can misfire. (Firearms)

 

They'd attached to certain weapon types; some perks could be perhaps unlocked (or removed) through training. Other could be added via crafting (using a certain material to create a weapon would "attach" the light perk to it).

 

E.g.

 

A Flamberge belongs to the Greatsword subset - it has the Tiring to Use perk. Additionally, it's Harder to parry against (which is its unique property). If it would be created from a material of magical properties, it'd also be considered "light". With some training in the proper usage of great weapons, the player's character would ignore the "Tiring to use" perk.

Edited November 2, 2012 by Karranthain

[mstark]

^I really like the idea of weapon perks, but I'd like to say that I think point 2) and 3) are pretty much covered by weapon speed. A weapon with slower attack speed is so because it's more tiring to use, a light weapon is faster because it's less tiring . I'd like perks to be something more unique. Another wild idea, maybe add a stealth perk to certain items? Like being able to bring a stiletto knife into a certain building where you'd be stopped for carrying a greatsword? That could make for an interesting rogue class sub-quest

 

I'm all for a large variety, with subtle differences between types. Why? It would be the most realistic option. There are weapons in the real world that fill every niche, and though there may just be subtle differences between them, it makes certain weapons [types] obvious choices for certain situations. It also ensures that most weapons are viable, since each weapon will have a small difference as compared to the next one. A baton might be similar in effectiveness to a small dagger, though they would be two different damaging types: bludgeoning vs. piercing. In a large selection, I imagine small differences would mean there will also be items with great differences compared to each other, polarization due to a wide selection, so to speak.

 

I hope damage types gets brought back in, and that armour has different properties against different types. I don't want there to be armours that'd provide immunities towards a certain weapon type, but I imagine a chain main to give +1 protection towards piercing and slicing type weapons. Plate would, obviously, give the best protection against most weapon types, but could have an associated stamina drain during combat, not so much that it'd empty your stamina in a fight, but enough to balance it with lighter type armours that allow would be easier to wear in a fight. That stamina drain would make the plate viable for fighters, who's likely to have a higher stamina, but less so for a mage, who's likely to have lower stamina.

 

If they keep perks and protective stats subtle, but available on most pieces of gear, there will be no "this items wins the game" gear (quite like IE/D&D. Carsomyr is clearly better than a two handed sword, but you can get very far with a regular one, too, should you wish to). If you'd really want to have high resistance towards piercing weapons, equip an enchanted chain mail, enchanted chain hoses, enchanted chain boots, chain helmet, and a large shield. Also make buying equipment a real investment, so that buying entire gearsets for particular encounters isn't necessarily profitable, but a viable strategy. All of this was kind of in the IE games, though as has been mentioned, plate was almost always the obvious choice. I think something like a slow stamina drain, while attacking, would help mitigate this. IMO, the IE system was good, it only needs subtle changes to balance out the overpowered plate.

 

I also want there to be useless weapons, in the sense that a kitchen knife would be highly inferior to a longsword, but still possible to equip. Because, why the hell not? . However, I'd like the main selection of combat weapons, the most ordinary ones that you'll likely end up using, to be well balanced.

 

(this post started out as a single paragraph one, then I just... got stuck writing, I hope it's not been a waste of your time, if you read it all )

[Karranthain]

^I really like the idea of weapon perks, but I'd like to say that I think point 2) and 3) are pretty much covered by weapon speed. A weapon with slower attack speed is so because it's more tiring to use, a light weapon is faster because it's less tiring . I'd like perks to be something more unique. Another wild idea, maybe add a stealth perk to certain items? Like being able to bring a stiletto knife into a certain building where you'd be stopped for carrying a greatsword? That could make for an interesting rogue class sub-quest

 

Regarding the first point - a greatsword isn't that much slower than a one-handed sword - but you're using your whole body when swinging it, not just your arms; hence the Tiring to use property.

 

And I definitely agree, the perks should definitely be more unique than my examples (perhaps I'll create a topic devoted to just this concept). I like the "stealthy" (concealable) perk - some weapons in New Vegas had that property and you could sneak past weapon searches.