Oversexualization of females in video games

[Tamerlane]

Huh, this thread again? Well, we're all mature people capable of empathy and we all understand tha

 

No? We aren't? And we don't?

 

Oh.

 

[UncleBourbon]

B-but that gif is so appropriate!

[Sistergoldring]

I think the artists can come up with a happy medium between dressing all the characters in burqas (men too after all fair's fair) and the standard pantless, cleavage-fest fantasy female fare. If I can have a female PC who looks like she got dressed in the morning without the intention of sexually exciting every male she encounters then I'm OK with the occasional bit of eye-candy for the boys in appropriate circumstances too.

Edited October 24, 2012 by Sistergoldring

[syn2083]

I'm for the variety arguement. Though the trend of the bikini armor, has become quite silly. It is not something that makes me want to buy a game more. Story and mechanics do.

 

More realistic armor on BOTH sides is fine with me.

[Grimlorn]

I'd rather a white knight than a mysogynerd ****tard any day of the week.

 

But then I'm only a woman who has donated to this kickstarter I mean what does my opinion matter right? If the majority of the demographic is white that means racism is allowed since sexism is okay when the majority are men. /sarcasm

 

I don't want my female playable characters to look like strippers just as I'm sure you don't want your male playable characters to look like Edward from Twilight. I don't see why it's such an imposition. I mean you aren't going to die if a woman doesn't flash some boob at you every five minutes.

Any other women want to be immature and overreact?

 

Wow. So if a woman reacts badly to the representation of her own sex in a game and to the male gamers who want it like that, it's immature overreaction according to a male.

 

That's so facepalmingly stupid on so many levels....

 

You're right. Her swearing, insulting and exaggerating other people's opinions wasn't immature and an overreaction. Keep it up. I'm sure she needs other guys to jump in and defend her actions. Edited October 24, 2012 by Grimlorn

[Badmojo]

If I read correctly, since women don't play hardcore RPGs as much as men, male gaze is ok?

 

Why should female outfits be all sexy? What purpose does it serve, other than objectifying and sexualizing them? None. It's pure pandering towards the male part of your audience and alienating the female. Canegund's current outfit is plausible, fits the setting and is appropriately feminine without being demeaning.

 

But this is my point. I do not want them to worry about who they may offend, I want them to create the game they WANT to create without fear of whose toes they step on. The original armour was fine, but a group pressured them to change it and they did. That sent all sort of warning bells going off. You say pandering, I say creating a game for the core demographic that is buying it. Changing to not offend, is pandering to the PC crowd.

 

While this is obviously a matter of taste, do you really think it's that bad? It's not like it's an enormous change or anything. Just a change to a more subtle, but still bulging shape.

 

Well, I honestly do not see anything attractive about it. It could easily be a guy or girl in it. Yes, it does look like a bit feminine, but it is way to subtle.

 

Honestly, and this is not meant to be offensive, but I'm struggling to believe that you're being serious. Again, I realize it's different tastes and all that but that is such an incredible exaggeration. Do you honestly mean that you cannot tell the sex of the character? Honestly?

 

Again, it is too subtle. Actually they should show what a male in Armour (NOT BEARDED!) so we can compare them side by side. However, when they are sprites, they will all look the same.

 

This highlights the core of the problem. Some people are under the impression that how HAWT they find a female character is of high importance. If they don't find her hawt, something must be terribly wrong, right? Those PC feminists must have gone too far, right? I mean, that's the main point of having female characters in games, after all. To turn me on, right?

 

Thing is though, there are plenty of games out there for those that want to see impossibly-proportioned ladies in hawt fetish outfits. TERA, your average Skyrim mods, Chainsaw Lollipop, any Tomb Raider game, Bayonetta, etc. The newly upcoming Queen's Blade MMO might be more in their style. What baffles me is why they're so upset that a story-based RPG might have more depth regarding character portrayals.

 

Ah, your missing the point completely, this is NOT about sexiness/hormones..etc. This is about changing the game to please the PC crowd/trying to not offend anybody. At least my reasons anyway. I did not put money into PE just for it to be another PC friendly game, I put it in to avoid that drizzle the ESRB has made games into. Changing The armour is just a symptom of worse things to come.

 

Because this is a serious and pressing issue in this modern era of gaming, one must not marginalize a key demographic that has been criminally underserved in gaming over the years.

 

Bzzt wrong, its just a bunch of fem/KS trolls, trolling every website/forum.

 

 

Well if you really were offended by how a game that is targeted towards women portrayed males, then yes, I think you should definitely say something about it. I don't think P:E is targeted towards any spesific gender tho, so this example is not really relevant. Also, if you really want more women to play, wouldn't it be wise to listen to their opinions about the games too? Or do you mean that we're free to play the games, but otherwise should just shut up? And what's with the PC fear? Seriously Everything some of the guys here don't like is either PC or feminazi (or both!). Sometimes it's simply about taste. Some people want female characters to look like booberellas and strut around in tiny outfits and some people don't. That's really all there's to it, so why turn this into politics?

 

The thing is...its not the women who are the ones mainly pushing it, its the white knights. They are the ones who are screaming for this change which has me baffled. As for opinions, it depends. For example, I like games where men/women are treated differently in both good and bad ways, others want games where men and women are treated EXACTLY the same. I hate the second way because every modern game does this, characters should be unique and recognize the differences in race/sex/species, not ignore it. Now, this is something that there really cannot be a compromising position on. Trying to create a compromising position and you end up with BOTH sides complaining about it. So, who do you listen too? The original group who has always been there and is your biggest player base, or the new way smaller group who want to change it? I should say I think female PC's should play/dress however they want with much dialog going all over the place to fit their play style. I am mainly referring to NPC's/world actions.

 

Because some aren't asking for practical armor, they are demanding the sexual neutrality of women in a crpg. Practical armor isn't really the issue here, not the fundamental issue at least. BG/IWD/D&D/etc has never had a practicality issue with regards to armor. Black Isle and Obsidian have also never had a practicality issue. For the most part CRPG's have not had a practicality issue. Consoles have on occasion had practicality lapses, sure (as have console games ported to PC).

 

There have been just as many arguments made about male privilege, the titilation of men, etc. A little cleavage in a rogue's leather armor has been likened to fan service on these forums. This argument is NOT simply about practicality of armor. A feather boa will not keep someone warm in the arctic, this is true. An iron tassle will not stop a broadsword, this is true. What's also true is that for several people, these aren't the root issues.

 

I don't think I am alone in saying... I agree that there is strength in a degree of practicality, and I don't have any fear whatsoever that OE isn't building a world of practical aesthetics. However, taking the argument beyond that - fighting against cleavage, or showing some leg, etc - that's ridiculous and I'm glad so many people have a problem with it.

 

That is the point, the armour has nothing to do with this thread, it is just a cover story to change all women in the game to a PC friendly version.

Edited October 24, 2012 by Badmojo

[Badmojo]

Of course, that assumes the purpose of the boob plates isn't titillation. Which, in the context of the original art for Cadegund, I don't think it was.

 

it really isn't, it was only used to easily identify male and female characters when they are sprites.

 

Really now, some of you are fighting phantoms inside your own mind. No one here has asked for gender neutrality. No one has asked for no nudity or no cleavage. No one.

 

And yet there are those who keep posting claiming EVERYONE is demanding those things. No one has. Obsidian's done a great job in the past and so far with their portrayal of female (and male, for that matter) characters; and Josh Sawyer thought boobplate was silly and removed it. I'm happy. Others are, too.

 

The people who aren't happy are those who are moaning over the loss of boobplate and calling it censorship, PC, caving, whiteknighting, etc.

 

For the last time. If you think so little of Obsidian, perhaps Project Eternity is not for you. If you don't see how leaving an overly exaggerated stereotype behind for a more nuanced portrayal is the opposite of limiting, it's expansion of the mind, then perhaps this kind of RPG is not for you. There are a plenitude of games out there that look like TERA if that's what you prefer. And that's okay: we don't all have to play the same games.

 

Um, go back some pages, some people have damn well asked exactly for that. Perhaps PE is not for YOU, ever think of that? They had a visual image of the original armour and WK/fem group trolled and cried foul demanding change. obsidian caved and changed it just to please this group. Many of us were fine with the armour, yet because of some very small group complaining, obsidian changed it.

 

@Katrar sexism is not ok and as long as RPGs are sexist, there is a problem and "the people" will keep arguing against it. And sexist people will keep telling them to shut up.

 

Sorry, another fool who likes to abuse the sexist word. Sexist, misogynist, rape supporter, etc words have all been used, abused, and twisted beyond recognization. No matter what the argument is, those words are thrown in by people at another group no matter what. Don't agree with me? sexist. Like looking at women? sexist. Not agreeing with a female political candidate? sexist. Creating RPG's for men? sexist. It is the boy who cried wolf syndrome, these words keep appearing over and over by a group and people are starting to ignore it. However, when there is a REAL case of sexism/sexist against a real woman, it will be ignored because people like you who use those words like candy in an argument and only hurting women in the process.

 

As for the argument as to why women should be sensibly dressed (player characters in particular) Is that it's hard me personally to take my own character seriously if she is dressed inappropriately. Often I don't have a problem with other women in the game being scantily clad as long as my character isn't dressed like a stripper. Other women in that universe can do what the hell they like. I play my Borderlands 2 character quite happily without sneering at Moxxi everytime I go in her bar.

 

I have no problem with this, the Player Character females can do/dress whatever/however they want, I am arguing against NPC/world PC.

 

You are guessing wrong. They are sexist as "a fact", not inherently (and so on for each of your assertions).

 

I can understand the topic of sexism in general, in videogames more particularly, and more so in CRPGs is not something you have heavily thought about. Your opinions and your misinterpretations are really bold, however.

 

[edit] I do not think most of you are intentionally trolling. Thinking that is reassuring but false. Many of you are just comfortably on the strong side of a social inequality, and never had many occasions to think about the damages you (your line of thinking) cause.

 

I think you are trolling, its a game, not a political soap box to shove your political views to the world.

[Dersu42]

I understand that the characters are probably going to be pretty small. I also understand that this game is going to be very big. Therefore I would much rather have some basic sprites that maybe differentiate each class of armor (cloth from leather, leather from pate) And, if they have time, include some sprites that reflect quality or material (Dragon scale from regular plate and leather, or really rare armor from normal non magical stuff). Beyond that, there isn't going to be a huge return on character cosmetics if they don't stand much taller than my thumbnail anyways.

 

I am going to infer way more about how my characters look from their portraits. So full body portraits in the character menu would be pretty cool I think.

 

As for the whole male versus female thing. Step 1. Make the armor look functional. Step 2. Make it look cool, that's it. Chainmail bikinis have never been functional, so don't make those.

Edited October 24, 2012 by Dersu42

[LadyCrimson]

Most of this thread puts me in mind of that cartoon that goes something like: "Someone on the internet is WRONG and I must fix it!"

[Terror K]

Personally, as long as both genders are treated equally in terms of "fan-service" and the designs are kept tasteful and generally logical, I don't see a problem with some (not all) of the clothing and armours being sexy. You can have attractive, flattering outfits without crossing the line to slutty or tasteless after all. Also, some characters may suit certain styles of clothing more than others. I wouldn't expect a female fighter to be in a chainmail bikini, but nor would I expect a prostitute outside a brothel to be covered-up in bulky clothing. It's just as much about context as well as style.

 

On top of it all, as much as some may complain about the breast-shaped breast plate style of armour because it's both impractical and (somehow) appeals to horny teenage boys, this is supposed to be a fantasy game.

[Larkaloke]

The title of the topic specifically uses the word oversexualisation. I consider armour to fall strongly under that category if sexualised, because there is almost never a reason for it to be. I would not consider clothing to; I would not consider even armour to if the character wearing it has a good reason for it (some rogue types with leather armour, perhaps, though not all for example). I don't think anybody is trying to say that there should never be any sexualisation of female characters, ever, just that it's kind of obnoxious when it's there for no good reason in inappropriate places or ways. Same goes for male characters, for that matter, it just isn't so often brought up about them.

 

But this is my point. I do not want them to worry about who they may offend, I want them to create the game they WANT to create without fear of whose toes they step on. The original armour was fine, but a group pressured them to change it and they did. That sent all sort of warning bells going off. You say pandering, I say creating a game for the core demographic that is buying it. Changing to not offend, is pandering to the PC crowd.

 

Are you sure that not offending was the only reason they changed it? Perhaps they are simply going in a more realistic direction with armour (which I would think is a good thing). Perhaps they were in the beginning, and didn't realise that was unrealistic (unlikely, but possible). Perhaps they simply hadn't thought about it yet. Also, I'm not quite so convinced about the core demographic thing as you appear to be.

 

Well, I honestly do not see anything attractive about it. It could easily be a guy or girl in it. Yes, it does look like a bit feminine, but it is way to subtle.

 

Why does it need to be attractive, though? It's armour. Do you care so much about whether male characters have attractive armour that shows instantly that they are male? And yes, of course you could easily put either a guy or a girl in it. Again, it's armour. If we were speaking of something other than armour, say, fancy dress attire, I might agree with you -- and I certainly wouldn't argue with you if that were the case -- but it isn't.

 

Again, it is too subtle. Actually they should show what a male in Armour (NOT BEARDED!) so we can compare them side by side. However, when they are sprites, they will all look the same.

 

Perhaps you should wait until you see the models to declare that they will all look the same. We don't know if they will or not yet. I still fail to see the problem if they do -- really, why do you need to instantly recognise that a particular NPC is female? Does it matter that instantly? I think it matters about as much as telling instantly whether they are an elf or a human, and I expect it will be about as easy to tell.

 

Ah, your missing the point completely, this is NOT about sexiness/hormones..etc. This is about changing the game to please the PC crowd/trying to not offend anybody. At least my reasons anyway. I did not put money into PE just for it to be another PC friendly game, I put it in to avoid that drizzle the ESRB has made games into. Changing The armour is just a symptom of worse things to come.

 

Changing the armour is completely inconsequential to the gameplay, story, and in fact everything except for what the armour looks like. I don't see how it's a symptom of things to come, good or ill. Concept art is often changed or revised from an early stage. And again, I think it's more a question of realism than of PC/not PC.

 

The thing is...its not the women who are the ones mainly pushing it, its the white knights. They are the ones who are screaming for this change which has me baffled. As for opinions, it depends. For example, I like games where men/women are treated differently in both good and bad ways, others want games where men and women are treated EXACTLY the same. I hate the second way because every modern game does this, characters should be unique and recognize the differences in race/sex/species, not ignore it. Now, this is something that there really cannot be a compromising position on. Trying to create a compromising position and you end up with BOTH sides complaining about it. So, who do you listen too? The original group who has always been there and is your biggest player base, or the new way smaller group who want to change it? I should say I think female PC's should play/dress however they want with much dialog going all over the place to fit their play style. I am mainly referring to NPC's/world actions.

 

Do you know that? You probably don't know for sure if most of the people posting are male or not. And maybe, just maybe, those of them who are male actually do prefer realistic armour. You make quite a lot of assumptions, it seems.

 

I have no problem with a variety of NPCs. I have no problem with the world reacting to female PCs in a different way than male ones, if that is how the world is (which of course, it isn't necessarily, and we don't know whether or not that is the case yet). Maybe I missed something, but I don't think most people here are arguing for men and women being treated exactly the same in the game. So long as I have the option to make my character act how I want (which I see you have no problem with), I'm fine.

 

Now, how the armour looks does have an impact on that. Chances are that the armour models are the same between NPCs and PCs -- certainly more work if they aren't -- and I do consider being able to equip reasonable armour on a female character to be something to do with the PC.

 

That is the point, the armour has nothing to do with this thread, it is just a cover story to change all women in the game to a PC friendly version.

 

I don't get that from reading the thread. Perhaps you are reading too much into what some people are saying? For me at least, practicality and realism of armour and being able to play my own character(s) how I want to is the only issue. NPCs I expect to be all over the board. I expect to see the usual array of villagers, bar maids, and what have you; I'm fine with that. There's plenty of room for all sorts of NPCs. So long as they all make sense in the context of the world, I really don't care if some come off as a bit stereotypical. If they all did, that would be a problem, but I don't see that happening.

 

Um, go back some pages, some people have damn well asked exactly for that. Perhaps PE is not for YOU, ever think of that? They had a visual image of the original armour and WK/fem group trolled and cried foul demanding change. obsidian caved and changed it just to please this group. Many of us were fine with the armour, yet because of some very small group complaining, obsidian changed it.

 

Sometimes, when people complain about something, the person or people receiving the complaint think about it and then in fact change their minds. I would suspect that was what happened. I doubt they would've done it if they didn't agree with it. Granted, I wasn't here at the time, and I don't know how it all went down.

 

I also have to suspect you were a good deal more than just "fine" with it, since you apparently care so very much about the change. As an aside, I do hope that nobody would seriously base their entire opinion of whether or not a game is for them based on armour design. I've played plenty of games with unrealistic armour designs. It annoys me every now and then, but they can still be great games.

 

No matter what the argument is, those words are thrown in by people at another group no matter what. Don't agree with me? sexist. Like looking at women? sexist. Not agreeing with a female political candidate? sexist. Creating RPG's for men? sexist. It is the boy who cried wolf syndrome, these words keep appearing over and over by a group and people are starting to ignore it. However, when there is a REAL case of sexism/sexist against a real woman, it will be ignored because people like you who use those words like candy in an argument and only hurting women in the process.

 

Interestingly enough, if you change the word "sexist" to "trolling" and switch a few things around part of this reads a lot like what you've been saying -- the good ol' "anybody who doesn't agree with me is trolling!" argument. Perhaps some people (on both sides) just start or comment on these topics to rile people up, but I think the great majority of them actually are interested in the question and care about it.

 

That aside, I do agree with this to some extent. Most of the arguments presented here I would describe as more of strange or a little bit obsessive than sexist. Overuse of words, particularly when it is not really the right word, can become tiresome -- though I've my doubts about whether or not it innures people to the real thing, but that is really fairly off-topic I think, so I'll leave it at that.

 

I have no problem with this, the Player Character females can do/dress whatever/however they want, I am arguing against NPC/world PC.

 

See, I'm not sure that everybody is actually talking about the same thing here.

 

I, for instance, want realistic armour. I don't want it to change much at all between men and women. Partially I want this so that it will look reasonable on my character, partially because unrealistic armour annoys me in general -- and yes, that includes things like oversized pauldrons, bizarre non-functional decorations, and lack of coverage in key areas, be the armour in question for men or women. I would not like to see those things either, and I'd mention it.

 

All I ask of NPCs -- male or female -- is that they have their own individual character for the important ones, and that they all work in the setting. Yeah, I'd be upset if all the female NPCs around were completely stereotypical, but I don't even see that as something to worry about because it just isn't going to happen. No point worrying about it. I'm sure the NPCs will be fine. They have a great track record with that.

 

If it makes sense for the world and NPCs in the world to treat female PCs differently then male ones, I want them to do so. I don't think we have enough information yet to know whether not that makes sense. I don't particularly care whether or not it does; either way could be great.

 

 

[Macbeth]

Jesus H. Christ on a pogo stick, this thread is still going!

It’s going to become self aware pretty soon now, you know. Over-sexualised Skynet, now there’s a scary thought!

[Badmojo]

I understand that the characters are probably going to be pretty small. I also understand that this game is going to be very big. Therefore I would much rather have some basic sprites that maybe differentiate each class of armor (cloth from leather, leather from pate) And, if they have time, include some sprites that reflect quality or material (Dragon scale from regular plate and leather, or really rare armor from normal non magical stuff). Beyond that, there isn't going to be a huge return on character cosmetics if they don't stand much taller than my thumbnail anyways.

 

I am going to infer way more about how my characters look from their portraits. So full body portraits in the character menu would be pretty cool I think.

 

As for the whole male versus female thing. Step 1. Make the armor look functional. Step 2. Make it look cool, that's it. Chainmail bikinis have never been functional, so don't make those.

 

 

You know, I don't think there has been ONE single request for chainmail bikini's, but people keep bringing it up.

 

Most of this thread puts me in mind of that cartoon that goes something like: "Someone on the internet is WRONG and I must fix it!"

 

Your thinking of this:

 

 

The title of the topic specifically uses the word oversexualisation. I consider armour to fall strongly under that category if sexualised, because there is almost never a reason for it to be. I would not consider clothing to; I would not consider even armour to if the character wearing it has a good reason for it (some rogue types with leather armour, perhaps, though not all for example). I don't think anybody is trying to say that there should never be any sexualisation of female characters, ever, just that it's kind of obnoxious when it's there for no good reason in inappropriate places or ways. Same goes for male characters, for that matter, it just isn't so often brought up about them.

 

Which is weird if you think about it, when it happens to a guy (say the monk class), not a peap from the WK/Fem crowd, but a female npc/companion and they freak out. I disagree a bit about usefulness, I mean, there really is no logic reason anybody should be wearing armour all day long, nor getting hot/tired, impairs movement...etc. Yet, few have complained about that not being logical or consistent.

 

Are you sure that not offending was the only reason they changed it? Perhaps they are simply going in a more realistic direction with armour (which I would think is a good thing). Perhaps they were in the beginning, and didn't realise that was unrealistic (unlikely, but possible). Perhaps they simply hadn't thought about it yet. Also, I'm not quite so convinced about the core demographic thing as you appear to be.

 

Possible that they were planning to change it anyway to make it more realistic? Yes. However, a bit doubtful when you place in the timing of the change happening only after a group was raising such a fuss. It was only then it became "oh, we weren't going to use that, we were going to use THIS totally PC armour instead...silly us". A bit suspiscious, if there were going to change it, then I would think they would have put the other armour in instead of confusing the audience. Either way, they screwed up.

 

Perhaps you should wait until you see the models to declare that they will all look the same. We don't know if they will or not yet. I still fail to see the problem if they do -- really, why do you need to instantly recognise that a particular NPC is female? Does it matter that instantly? I think it matters about as much as telling instantly whether they are an elf or a human, and I expect it will be about as easy to tell.

 

Because its nice to know? I mean, the more detail you can see about a character the better it will be, if the characteristics of a character NPC's cannot be easily distinguished with a casual glance (for example, human, male, wizard, blonde, carries a bone staff, wearing black clothing, so probably necromancer, etc), If I question the most basic of characteristics like what sex it is, then the developers/artists are not doing their job right.

 

Why does it need to be attractive, though? It's armour. Do you care so much about whether male characters have attractive armour that shows instantly that they are male? And yes, of course you could easily put either a guy or a girl in it. Again, it's armour. If we were speaking of something other than armour, say, fancy dress attire, I might agree with you -- and I certainly wouldn't argue with you if that were the case -- but it isn't.

 

Attractive might not have been the right word, I was responding to an earlier post. However, it should be a bit more stylized to show off that its female/male, way more than the current picture shows. I blame using ugly europeon classic armour designs instead of being creative and come up with something really original.

 

Changing the armour is completely inconsequential to the gameplay, story, and in fact everything except for what the armour looks like. I don't see how it's a symptom of things to come, good or ill. Concept art is often changed or revised from an early stage. And again, I think it's more a question of realism than of PC/not PC.

 

The realism argument just doesn't hold water with me when you have guys throwing lightning, gods exist, elves and dwarves running around, etc. Again, it is the sign of future problems. Someone was already complaining about the dwarf female not having a protection armout in front of her boobs because in archery they wear them. Seriously. And that is what this will turn into, unless all the females are covered head to toe not showing any skin amd striping out any female identifiers like boobs, the PC fems/prudes/wk group will raise hell.

 

Do you know that? You probably don't know for sure if most of the people posting are male or not. And maybe, just maybe, those of them who are male actually do prefer realistic armour. You make quite a lot of assumptions, it seems.

 

I have no problem with a variety of NPCs. I have no problem with the world reacting to female PCs in a different way than male ones, if that is how the world is (which of course, it isn't necessarily, and we don't know whether or not that is the case yet). Maybe I missed something, but I don't think most people here are arguing for men and women being treated exactly the same in the game. So long as I have the option to make my character act how I want (which I see you have no problem with), I'm fine.

 

Now, how the armour looks does have an impact on that. Chances are that the armour models are the same between NPCs and PCs -- certainly more work if they aren't -- and I do consider being able to equip reasonable armour on a female character to be something to do with the PC.

 

No, really, most of the people posting have been males, this is not confined to only this forum, this has been going on all along the internet, its always been mostly men who push this, it might start with a single fem posting, but the lion share is men..oh, and sock puppeting going on.

 

actually, go back a few pages, there HAVE been people demanding that male/female be treated exactly the same.

 

Sometimes, when people complain about something, the person or people receiving the complaint think about it and then in fact change their minds. I would suspect that was what happened. I doubt they would've done it if they didn't agree with it. Granted, I wasn't here at the time, and I don't know how it all went down.

 

I also have to suspect you were a good deal more than just "fine" with it, since you apparently care so very much about the change. As an aside, I do hope that nobody would seriously base their entire opinion of whether or not a game is for them based on armour design. I've played plenty of games with unrealistic armour designs. It annoys me every now and then, but they can still be great games.

 

Those of us who have seen this exact groups WK/prudes/fems/other,etc show up on every other board on every website shoving the same PC crap in everything for months. It gets a bit tiresome.

 

 

These threads should have been closed/moved way back and those who keep opening them (especially obvious sock puppets) should be warned/banned, it just pissers off both sides and prevents actual game discussion from progressing because everybody is here fighting for views. Maybe the mods think that letting these thread go will release steam and die out. No, no it wont, it will just make it worse, but hey, whatever. Basically this is less about discussion and more of who can scream the loudest at this point.

[Gorth]

Attractive might not have been the right word, I was responding to an earlier post. However, it should be a bit more stylized to show off that its female/male, way more than the current picture shows.

 

Awesome, all they they have to do then is colour the armour pink and you'll be happy

 

Those of us who have seen this exact groups show up on every other board on every website shoving the same PC crap in everything for months. It gets a bit tiresome.

 

Indeed.

 

Doesn't change that the original Cadegun armour was butt ugly in a suspension of disbelief hurting kind of way. If it had been ceremonial armour, then maybe, but as work clothes it was ridiculous. And yes, that from a testosterone oozing male who loves chainmail bikinis (in fact, having invested a lot of money on large Boris Vallejo posters over the decades).

 

If that particular armour is your entire basis for arguing why women should be "sexier" in video games to make you happy, then you need to learn how to pick better fights. Yes, it *was* that ugly in it's first presented form.

[Katrar]

Most of this thread puts me in mind of that cartoon that goes something like: "Someone on the internet is WRONG and I must fix it!"

 

I'd generally agree with you, the difference here is that we've seen inklings that the game's aesthetic decision making process may have already been affected by this small band of what are effectively wandering internet protesters. Badmojo makes what I think is the fundamental point: LET OE DESIGN THEIR OWN GAME. This project may have been community funded but it should not be community designed, and that's what this particular crowd seems to be doing: demanding that OE conform its design decisions to their real world political needs. Now, perhaps OE would have done this naturally, and great. But what if they have been second guessing their art department because of this? Or second guessing their aesthetic/artistic options in general? Would a real gamer want this? Someone here solely for political activism might, but a gamer would - in my opinion - respect the creative process that is just now being set in motion without trying hard as they might to restrict or redirect it.

[Nomine Vacans]

I blame using ugly europeon classic armour designs instead of being creative and come up with something really original.

Could you please just die? Thanks.

[Tagaziel]

So posting feedback is bad and Obsidian should work in a bubble, isolated from any and all outside input? Amusing.

 

Even more amusing is your claim about a "wandering band of Internet protesters." There is no great feminist conspiracy manifesting in rogue bands of protesters plaguing the boards. People are simply growing tired of the male gaze dominant in most games and voice their concerns. Hell, J.E. Sawyer, the Project Leader, voiced his displeasure with the boob plate, rendering your point moot.

 

Obsidian is known for subverting RPG mechanics and cliches. Sometimes they need to be reminded of it, particularly in cases of boobplate-with-tit-tips.

[Katrar]

Attractive might not have been the right word, I was responding to an earlier post. However, it should be a bit more stylized to show off that its female/male, way more than the current picture shows.

 

Awesome, all they they have to do then is colour the armour pink and you'll be happy

 

Those of us who have seen this exact groups <insert some point of view who disagrees> show up on every other board on every website shoving the same PC crap in everything for months. It gets a bit tiresome.

 

Indeed.

 

Doesn't change that the original Cadegun armour was butt ugly in a suspension of disbelief hurting kind of way. If it had been ceremonial armour, then maybe, but as work clothes it was ridiculous. And yes, that from a testosterone oozing male who loves chainmail bikinis (in fact, having invested a lot of money on large Boris Vallejo posters over the decades).

 

If that particular armour is your entire basis for arguing why women should be "sexier" in video games to make you happy, then you need to learn how to pick better fights. Yes, it *was* that ugly in it's first presented form.

 

+1 for Boris Vallejo. Proof that there really is no such thing as oversexualization in the fantasy genre, simply a divide between the amateur and the professional. Anyone who looks at Vallejo's work and sees nothing but oversexualization really has no business looking at fantasy artwork to begin with. =P

[Katrar]

So posting feedback is bad and Obsidian should work in a bubble, isolated from any and all outside input? Amusing.

 

Even more amusing is your claim about a "wandering band of Internet protesters." There is no great feminist conspiracy manifesting in rogue bands of protesters plaguing the boards. People are simply growing tired of the male gaze dominant in most games and voice their concerns. Hell, J.E. Sawyer, the Project Leader, voiced his displeasure with the boob plate, rendering your point moot.

 

Obsidian is known for subverting RPG mechanics and cliches. Sometimes they need to be reminded of it, particularly in cases of boobplate-with-tit-tips.

 

Posting feedback? Good. Not liking boobplate? Fine. Barfing all over these forums with accusations of sexism, male chauvenism, and male privilege, demanding PE women be "covered up", lamenting the horrors of all fantasy artwork and literature since before the 1970s, equating the aesthetics of console action games somehow with the CRPG genre, man... seriously?

 

You know what gets me. At the end of the day your "side" or whatever it is never acknowledges the fundamental plea to let OE design their own game. That's really what it boils down to. Let them design their own game, without getting all up in their grills with the angst and the anger and the hate and the sound and fury of your righteous crusade against cleavage in a fantasy setting.

Edited October 24, 2012 by Katrar

[Andwit25]

Most of this thread puts me in mind of that cartoon that goes something like: "Someone on the internet is WRONG and I must fix it!"

 

I'd generally agree with you, the difference here is that we've seen inklings that the game's aesthetic decision making process may have already been affected by this small band of what are effectively wandering internet protesters. Badmojo makes what I think is the fundamental point: LET OE DESIGN THEIR OWN GAME. This project may have been community funded but it should not be community designed, and that's what this particular crowd seems to be doing: demanding that OE conform its design decisions to their real world political needs. Now, perhaps OE would have done this naturally, and great. But what if they have been second guessing their art department because of this? Or second guessing their aesthetic/artistic options in general? Would a real gamer want this? Someone here solely for political activism might, but a gamer would - in my opinion - respect the creative process that is just now being set in motion without trying hard as they might to restrict or redirect it.

Are these the same gamers who protest game endings because they don´t like them ? (FO3,Divinity Ego Draconis, ME3)

The same gamer who start threads discussing wheter the game should have bows or pistols ?

The same gamer who start threads demanding that the setting will get a Forgotten Realms like pantheon ?

 

I could write a much longer list of gamers demanding that the game will be adjusted to their personal likes and dislikes.

And by the way it is not only the pc crowd who wanders the internet the same is true for the anti-pc group.

 

Personally I don´t care for being pc, but I do care for equality. So I am advocating that either both sexes get sensible armor, or both sexes get the early 80´s fantasy treatment and the women run around in fur bikinis while the men wear a leather loincloth (e.g. like in the old masters of the universe cartoons)

[Pidesco]

Things have gone somewhat off topic, somewhat impolite, and almost 500 posts of discussion seem enough. Let's give the topic a rest.