Oversexualization of females in video games

[Agremont]

It'd take time to implement properly, but if they did revealing outfits the player should get bonuses and negatives from it, based on how society feels about the clothes. Perhaps its easier to get information in a bar where people are horny and drunk (but you might just get propositioned as well) but you might not be taken seriously when talking to the captain of the guards who you find yourself completely unable to pursuade.

 

The problem with this route is that then everyone is carrying around a dozen armors / clothes articles and changing everytime they want a bonus.

 

So now back to "neutral is better"...

 

I suppose you're right. Might be a bit of a hassle.

 

I think Baldur's Gate handled appearance good. With commoners dressing very modestly and covered up, while some adventurers/special npcs had more revealing outfits, although never quite slutty. I would personally be satisfied with something like that. Perhaps with a bit more variety though.

Edited October 23, 2012 by Agremont

[Darkpriest]

Seriously... 19 pages.... just wow... *signing off*

[HereticSaint]

Seriously... 19 pages.... just wow... *signing off*

 

If this and the romance type threads are allowed I'm sure they'll keep being remade right up until the game comes out and likely at that point there will be threads about how said situations turned out. Then a couple of months after that people will reflect on why they were done the way they were, if it was correct and if they are making a sequal how they will be done in a sequal.

 

In other words, welcome to hell.

[Malcador]

I'd rather a white knight than a mysogynerd ****tard any day of the week.

 

But then I'm only a woman who has donated to this kickstarter I mean what does my opinion matter right? If the majority of the demographic is white that means racism is allowed since sexism is okay when the majority are men. /sarcasm

 

I don't want my female playable characters to look like strippers just as I'm sure you don't want your male playable characters to look like Edward from Twilight. I don't see why it's such an imposition. I mean you aren't going to die if a woman doesn't flash some boob at you every five minutes.

 

Well, there's an overreaction. I can imagine Obsidian people reading this thread and either laughing or getting a headache.

[Margaretha]

Do not worry. There are 2 or 3 pages of "not this topic again" and "it should be locked".

[Meshugger]

I'd rather a white knight than a mysogynerd ****tard any day of the week.

 

But then I'm only a woman who has donated to this kickstarter I mean what does my opinion matter right? If the majority of the demographic is white that means racism is allowed since sexism is okay when the majority are men. /sarcasm

 

I don't want my female playable characters to look like strippers just as I'm sure you don't want your male playable characters to look like Edward from Twilight. I don't see why it's such an imposition. I mean you aren't going to die if a woman doesn't flash some boob at you every five minutes.

 

Could you point me to a game where the females are like strippers and the males are like Edward from Twilight?

 

It is for educational purposes in gender class, of course.

Edited October 23, 2012 by Meshugger

[Amyrantha]

I'd rather a white knight than a mysogynerd ****tard any day of the week.

 

But then I'm only a woman who has donated to this kickstarter I mean what does my opinion matter right? If the majority of the demographic is white that means racism is allowed since sexism is okay when the majority are men. /sarcasm

 

I don't want my female playable characters to look like strippers just as I'm sure you don't want your male playable characters to look like Edward from Twilight. I don't see why it's such an imposition. I mean you aren't going to die if a woman doesn't flash some boob at you every five minutes.

 

Well, there's an overreaction. I can imagine Obsidian people reading this thread and either laughing or getting a headache.

 

I'm not sure why, but this gif struck me as appropriate to the situation

 

http://cdn.uproxx.co...-shirt-open.gif

[Smgcat]

I'd rather a white knight than a mysogynerd ****tard any day of the week.

 

But then I'm only a woman who has donated to this kickstarter I mean what does my opinion matter right? If the majority of the demographic is white that means racism is allowed since sexism is okay when the majority are men. /sarcasm

 

I don't want my female playable characters to look like strippers just as I'm sure you don't want your male playable characters to look like Edward from Twilight. I don't see why it's such an imposition. I mean you aren't going to die if a woman doesn't flash some boob at you every five minutes.

 

Could you point me to a game where the females are like strippers and the males are like Edward from Twilight?

 

It is for educational purposes in gender class, of course.

 

Heh. Lineage 2 maybe?

[Badmojo]

Hmm, seeing a lot more sock puppeting in here with new members.

 

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here, you either want a stereotype non-stereotype character or you want a character that appears stereotype but isn't stereotype... or something, I never even got why people have such an obsession with generally avoiding "stereotypes" as if they are something inherently evil/bad.

 

Agreed, creating nothing. but stereotypes is bad, but avoiding them is just as bad. Then we have anti-stereotypes...stereotypes. Like someone mentioned earlier about women having a 150 IQ, is completely self sufficient, talks like a sailor, and says things that constantly remind the player she needs no help, showing no skin/sexiness, oh and has to save the guy every so often(a dude in a woman's body basically). That is actually worse in my mind, its basically PC ok stereotypes.

 

Again, your point? Who asked for "fetish outfits", who even brought them up?

I'd be happy if you people stopped opening a thread every day about how feministic ideals are important and the game should totally be modeled after them and let Obsidian do their work without influencing them in any way, like with the "boob plate" thing. I haven't seen a single person asking for porn or fetish outfits, I've seen dozens of people decrying every single bit of sexualization and opening threads like this out of righteous indignation.

Personally I'd like it if they take the "Game of Thrones" approach with the world, but I'd be content with whatever they come up on their own without the intereference of the PC-police secondguessing them at every step of the way.

 

It all reminds me so much of this, just in a larger scale and with the consent of a lot of gaming publications "fighting for womens rights", all the while you're trying to shove everyone who doesn't want a PC/feminist agenda in their games into apparently "wanting to watch porn":

 

And frankly, I want them as far away as possible from game design, just as much as I want Jack Thompson (or people like him/similar extremists) as far away as possible.

 

THIS!

 

There is a huge female audience for these games. just because your brain defaults people into being male doesn't mean everyone is. In fact, every core female gamer I know is a fan of rpgs and you'd be pretty hard pressed to find one that isn't.

 

I also like how you constantly mention whiteknights and stuff as if this, when it gets down to it, actually has to do with feminism.

 

And? Define huge? What PERCENTAGE plays RPG's compared to men? I know there are women who play, I know plenty who do. However, it will not be that large compared to the male players. I would love to see some actual numbers to settle this. I am sure your about to pull the ESA numbers that showed 49% are women gamers. Sorry, that number is BS. They included everything that had GAMES in the title, facebook, flash games, mobile games..etc. Strip out the casual crowd and focus on only the hardcore..especially RPG's and it will be a LOT smaller, I doubt it would be in the double digits. Now, if we pulled a poll of men to women KS backers for PE, what do you honestly think it would be? I am fairly confident the vast majority (like 90%) will be men. I could be wrong, but doubt it.

 

yeah bioware has totally caved into the evil feminist's anti-sex schemes and that half the world's population apparently aren't allowed to share interests or anything like that. i'm not saying guys aren't allowed to have things targeted towards guys, it's just there has been absolutely no indication that women aren't in the demographic they're trying to reach, which I was under the impression was simply fans of old school rpgs, which have a pretty large audience.

 

Its not half the damn worlds population playing it, its a very very very small subset of half the worlds population playing it. You talk like if they change the game to this all inclusive package that the majority of women will suddenly JUMP in to play. No they won't. The majority of women have very different tastes. If I compare my hardcore RPG female friends to my casual female facebook game playing friends. Which group do you think is much bigger? The majority of casual facebook friends are just NOT INTERESTED in this hobby. If you build it, they WILL NOT come.

 

Catering to every group is stupid (and bad) when the vast majority is a specific demographic. There are plenty of games that cater to everybody and they are such forgetable drizzle. The old games did not worry about trying to cater to everybody, they had a fixed demographic and that is why they are excelent. Changing it into a PC game is not what I think the majority of backers wants.

 

oh my gosh im sorry you won't be able to tell if one character is female in sprite form im not sure how your genitals will cope

 

pro-tip: if the only thing keeping you from thinking a character is attractive is not prominently displaying boobs, then the character is just unattractive to you. most male characters in video games aren't attractive to women either and i don't really see any female gamers exclaiming that all male characters should be hot bishonen men.

 

I have no idea why any fan of a male-prominent medium would be so ready to repel women in such a manner when others would be pretty excited to get them.

 

go watch some porn holy cow

 

Sorry white knight/fem, this is not about porn or sex, this about ideology and those of us who are sick of people like you shoving your PC utopia world view down everybody's throats.

 

I completly agree that there is nothing wrong with sexy armor.

However if platemail on a female looks like the illegimate offspring of a string bikini and a frying pan, it is only fair that the males of the setting should charge into battle wearing nothing but a full metal speedo.

 

Well, the new armour is UNSEXY as hell. It went from one spectrum to the other.

 

I think you meant to say ridiculous looking character as if they in your opinion prefer first draft of the Candegund with it's comical bumb for double D breasts instead of second draft where Cadegund is really has very good, healthy and feminine looking and without need for silicon implanted breasts from plastic surgeon.

 

You mean the sexless person the character is now?

 

Your insecurities are showing.

 

I'm actually offended that the only reasons you can come up with for other men to disagree with you and dislike ridiculous armors is because they are either prudes or disingenuous, and just trying to make good with the ladies. Not everyone is so dominated by their lizard brain as you seem to be.

 

It's really sad that some people on here keep on insisting that consistency = PC = a bad thing.

 

PC IS bad, games always suffer because of them. Insecurities? Nah, Just sick of these threads white knight, but your side keeps bringing them up. So I will keep responding. These threads should be closed/moved to another forum, but I think the mods like to see everybody trolling each other.

[Badmojo]

*had to break up my reply, hit quota quote block*

 

For the PC yeah...have options(including bulky and skimpy and in-between), but for NPCs there should be a mixture of styles from across all levels. I am really not into the whole "ban skimpy battle dresses from the game".

 

Pretty much this, different styles is good. However, I do NOT want them to ban attractive Armour on female NPC's, which I get the impression from, with obsidian caving to the WK group and changing the armour.

 

I'd rather a white knight than a mysogynerd ****tard any day of the week.

 

But then I'm only a woman who has donated to this kickstarter I mean what does my opinion matter right? If the majority of the demographic is white that means racism is allowed since sexism is okay when the majority are men. /sarcasm

 

I don't want my female playable characters to look like strippers just as I'm sure you don't want your male playable characters to look like Edward from Twilight. I don't see why it's such an imposition. I mean you aren't going to die if a woman doesn't flash some boob at you every five minutes.

 

So, if I donate to a game who the vast majority is women and traditionally been women players, can I go in and demand they change all the male characters to fit my tastes because I am offended by the way they are portrayed? I do think its great women play, I do want more women to play. I do NOT want the game devs to try and appease another group by making a game PC friendly. I want them to create something FREE of PC influence, esrb, company restrictions..etc.

 

Do not worry. There are 2 or 3 pages of "not this topic again" and "it should be locked".

 

Well, it should. It's like an abusive relationship, I know I should just leave, but I keep coming back.

[jb.]

I'm not sure why, but this gif struck me as appropriate to the situation

 

http://cdn.uproxx.co...-shirt-open.gif

 

I'm pretty sure that gif is appropriate to any situation

[Tagaziel]

If I read correctly, since women don't play hardcore RPGs as much as men, male gaze is ok?

 

Why should female outfits be all sexy? What purpose does it serve, other than objectifying and sexualizing them? None. It's pure pandering towards the male part of your audience and alienating the female. Canegund's current outfit is plausible, fits the setting and is appropriately feminine without being demeaning.

[Agremont]

Well, the new armour is UNSEXY as hell. It went from one spectrum to the other.

 

While this is obviously a matter of taste, do you really think it's that bad? It's not like it's an enormous change or anything. Just a change to a more subtle, but still bulging shape.

 

You mean the sexless person the character is now?

 

Honestly, and this is not meant to be offensive, but I'm struggling to believe that you're being serious. Again, I realize it's different tastes and all that but that is such an incredible exaggeration. Do you honestly mean that you cannot tell the sex of the character? Honestly?

Edited October 23, 2012 by Agremont

[HungryHungryOuroboros]

Well, the new armour is UNSEXY as hell. It went from one spectrum to the other.

 

While this is obviously a matter of taste, do you really think it's that bad? It's not like it's an enormous change or anything. Just a change to a more subtle, but still bulging shape.

 

You mean the sexless person the character is now?

 

Honestly, and this is not meant to be offensive, but I'm struggling to believe that you're being serious. Again, I realize it's different tastes and all that but that is such an incredible exaggeration. Do you honestly mean that you cannot tell the sex of the character? Honestly?

Sometimes I have to grab at someone's crotch to tell what gender they are, but for some reason this has left me with very few friends.

 

It's obviously a lot easier to tell gender with the original armor. After all, it has the perfectly reasonable "nipple points", a wonderful artistic representation of gender identity.

[Agremont]

 

 

It's obviously a lot easier to tell gender with the original armor. After all, it has the perfectly reasonable "nipple points", a wonderful artistic representation of gender identity.

 

It was overly obvious before, now it's down to just obvious to me. All proportions as well as facial features scream female to me.

[Infinitron]

what is this I don't even

 

WHY DOES THIS THREAD HAVE 20 PAGES

[HungryHungryOuroboros]

what is this I don't even

 

WHY DOES THIS THREAD HAVE 20 PAGES

Because people keep posting in it.

 

Some of whom are saying "Five pages? Really?!" and "Not THIS again!" and "LOCK PLZ". We could knock off a few pages if those were ripped out.

[Joukehainen]

Well, the new armour is UNSEXY as hell. It went from one spectrum to the other.

 

While this is obviously a matter of taste, do you really think it's that bad? It's not like it's an enormous change or anything. Just a change to a more subtle, but still bulging shape.

 

You mean the sexless person the character is now?

 

Honestly, and this is not meant to be offensive, but I'm struggling to believe that you're being serious. Again, I realize it's different tastes and all that but that is such an incredible exaggeration. Do you honestly mean that you cannot tell the sex of the character? Honestly?

 

This highlights the core of the problem. Some people are under the impression that how HAWT they find a female character is of high importance. If they don't find her hawt, something must be terribly wrong, right? Those PC feminists must have gone too far, right? I mean, that's the main point of having female characters in games, after all. To turn me on, right?

 

Thing is though, there are plenty of games out there for those that want to see impossibly-proportioned ladies in hawt fetish outfits. TERA, your average Skyrim mods, Chainsaw Lollipop, any Tomb Raider game, Bayonetta, etc. The newly upcoming Queen's Blade MMO might be more in their style. What baffles me is why they're so upset that a story-based RPG might have more depth regarding character portrayals.

[Tagaziel]

I recall that Chainsaw Lollipop is purposefully campy and oversexualized, to parody this tendency. Don't quote me on that, though.

 

Cass is a fine example of a female character done right. Reasonably attractive, though hardly extra beautiful, temperamental, but within and with reason, wearing good, practical clothing.

[Joukehainen]

I recall that Chainsaw Lollipop is purposefully campy and oversexualized, to parody this tendency. Don't quote me on that, though.

 

Cass is a fine example of a female character done right. Reasonably attractive, though hardly extra beautiful, temperamental, but within and with reason, wearing good, practical clothing.

 

Same could be said of Bayonetta, most likely a parody. Doesn't mean they don't contain impossibly-proportioned ladies in fetish outfits, though. They do.

[Malcador]

what is this I don't even

 

WHY DOES THIS THREAD HAVE 20 PAGES

 

Because this is a serious and pressing issue in this modern era of gaming, one must not marginalize a key demographic that has been criminally underserved in gaming over the years.

[Tagaziel]

Same could be said of Bayonetta, most likely a parody. Doesn't mean they don't contain impossibly-proportioned ladies in fetish outfits, though. They do.

 

I hate to link to Wikipedia, but... I looked it up, trying to figure out if Bayonetta is actually a parody... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayonetta#Development

 

To Kamiya, the core theme of the game and its protagonist's attacks is "sexiness". He said Bayonetta's ability to transform into a panther reflected the developers' desire to "make her a sexy witch". To emphasize "her femininity and sexuality", the developers made Bayonetta lose rose petals instead of blood when hit, and used a butterfly motif that manifests in her wings (which appear in her shadow and during double jumps), her giant fist attack (a butterfly appears on the back of the fist), and the arms of her glasses. Her giant boot, fist, and monster attacks reveal some of her body—her hair is magically formed into clothes but must be temporarily reallocated to forming offensive weapons—and when the player targets an enemy, red lips mark the enemy's chest; this led IGN to call the developing game a mix of "action and a great big helping of fan service".

 

I can only add one word: wat.

Edited October 23, 2012 by Tagaziel

[Smgcat]

So, if I donate to a game who the vast majority is women and traditionally been women players, can I go in and demand they change all the male characters to fit my tastes because I am offended by the way they are portrayed? I do think its great women play, I do want more women to play. I do NOT want the game devs to try and appease another group by making a game PC friendly. I want them to create something FREE of PC influence, esrb, company restrictions..etc.

 

Well if you really were offended by how a game that is targeted towards women portrayed males, then yes, I think you should definitely say something about it. I don't think P:E is targeted towards any spesific gender tho, so this example is not really relevant. Also, if you really want more women to play, wouldn't it be wise to listen to their opinions about the games too? Or do you mean that we're free to play the games, but otherwise should just shut up? And what's with the PC fear? Seriously Everything some of the guys here don't like is either PC or feminazi (or both!). Sometimes it's simply about taste. Some people want female characters to look like booberellas and strut around in tiny outfits and some people don't. That's really all there's to it, so why turn this into politics?

 

That said...

 

I've seen no evidence that the devs plan on chainmail-bikinis or having women run around in stripper outfits or any stuff like that, actually it seems they are going for the opposite and I'm happy about that. So I'm not really sure why people are worried about this. That's really all I have to say on this topic and I will not touch it again.

 

(I would also like to point out that while I am new on this forums, I am not a sockpuppet. I use the same username and avatar here as I do on kickstarter, feel free to look me up there (though I guess I could be impersonating myself... you may never know for sure ))

[Freshock]

I wouldn't say it's just a matter of modern video games, it's been this way in the fantasy genre in comic books and video games (though they didn't have the best graphics in earlier games) for decades. It seems like - to me - that fantasy automaticlly means there's gotta be a sexual look to the females, and probably not only females as I see a picture of Conan in the first page . I don't mind it however, as long as they don't go too far - adding boob plates and such.

Edited October 23, 2012 by Freshock

[Chippy]

Nice article here:

 

http://www.wizards.c...4dreye/20120328

 

 

Article summary/precis:

 

"Armor should look appropriate to the culture, environment, materials available, and technology, first and foremost. If the armor doesn't pass that test, then it doesn't matter whether it is being worn by a man or a woman.

In other words, a male knight in full battle dress, wading through the desert sands, is just about as silly as a female fighter, in a chainmail bikini, forging through the frozen wastes of the Iceland Dale".

 

Edit: In the above "photo realism" example I would justify that character as a succubus in hell with supernatural strength intent on using any means to subdue/eviscerate a (hetro male or otherwise) character. Does that fit the context/intent/story of the character?. So would put forward the question of whether a succubus is the oversexualization of a female, or does she/it have a serious place in a fantasy game?.

Edited October 23, 2012 by Chippy