This supposed 14 level megadungeon

[mikemcdonald]

I'm not really a fan of the segmented iteration idea they had going (ie 3 levels at a time before you needed a key to the next lot found in another location of the world), I'd love to marathon the dungeon.

 

It's a valid point I think. Obsidian has earned the benefit of the doubt though. I don't recall much grindy or repetitive mechanics in their games. I don't think the individually rendered backdrops of the Infinity-style games lend themselves well to being endlessly repeated. You can't just copy/ paste assets from the environment over and over like in a fully 3D game. Or at the very least, you'd think it'd get boring to MAKE.

[Monte Carlo]

Why are people making a drama out of this? Bobby, Josh etc are all damn good at this stuff. Look at their previous work, the levels will have lore, plotting, memorable enemies, puzzles and tons of other stuff.

 

I have *complete* confidence in them and will the haters / story-tymers just calm down?

[void_dp]

I say this here too - "dont like dont go" people, stop try to rob half of players of huge part of game content."Dont use 30% of game" is not even close to the same as "ignore exits".

[Pope]

I'm not really a fan of the segmented iteration idea they had going (ie 3 levels at a time before you needed a key to the next lot found in another location of the world), I'd love to marathon the dungeon.

I feel the same.

 

3 levels at a time would just feel like 5 separate dungeons.

[Darth Trethon]

... So don't go there.

 

To my understanding, the dungeon is optional. Plus, you likely won't be forced to go all the way to the bottom before you can leave. Just go as deep as you like and leave when you get bored.

 

This^^^^

 

Although.....OP what is wrong with you? This it the best kind of game.....an amazing cRPG. This is what it's all about!!! Hell give me a 500 level dungeon and I'll go down there while exploring every corner and under every rock of every level.

 

I honestly just can't wait to play this game....it won't be anything short of amazing. Hell right now I can't wait to get my hands on BG: EE to keep me from exploding while I wait for PE.

[Darth Trethon]

I'm not really a fan of the segmented iteration idea they had going (ie 3 levels at a time before you needed a key to the next lot found in another location of the world), I'd love to marathon the dungeon.

I feel the same.

 

3 levels at a time would just feel like 5 separate dungeons.

 

This bit I can get behind. Once you're in the dungeon if you're strong enough to face all the monsters and threats in there you really shouldn't be held back by any nonsense like a missing key. My godlike Cipher will be breaking down doors before turning around to go look for a bloody key.

[Lusankya]

The levels wont necessarily be all combat I guess. There could be several levels where you just pick up a few quests for the lower levels then move on, taking only 10-15 minutes to explore.

 

15 levels doesn't necessarily mean 15 levels of huge 2 hour long combat sessions on every level, right?

Nope, it doesn't have to mean that. 15 rather small dungeon levels could be much less than 3 very large levels. So the actual size/length of the whole dungeon is not really dependant on the number of levels.

[Sensuki]

Yeah that's right, it just seems like a restriction on power gaming (I'm seeing a common theme here ... )

[Darth Trethon]

The levels wont necessarily be all combat I guess. There could be several levels where you just pick up a few quests for the lower levels then move on, taking only 10-15 minutes to explore.

 

15 levels doesn't necessarily mean 15 levels of huge 2 hour long combat sessions on every level, right?

Nope, it doesn't have to mean that. 15 rather small dungeon levels could be much less than 3 very large levels. So the actual size/length of the whole dungeon is not really dependant on the number of levels.

 

Well we are all referring to it as a "mega" dungeon so I suspect they will be rather large levels.....which is a good thing in my books. Give me levels that take two hours to explore....not all combat but a balance of all things.

[ComMcNeil]

The levels wont necessarily be all combat I guess. There could be several levels where you just pick up a few quests for the lower levels then move on, taking only 10-15 minutes to explore.

 

15 levels doesn't necessarily mean 15 levels of huge 2 hour long combat sessions on every level, right?

Nope, it doesn't have to mean that. 15 rather small dungeon levels could be much less than 3 very large levels. So the actual size/length of the whole dungeon is not really dependant on the number of levels.

 

Well we are all referring to it as a "mega" dungeon so I suspect they will be rather large levels.....which is a good thing in my books. Give me levels that take two hours to explore....not all combat but a balance of all things.

 

although I share the same enthusiasm, imagine having a 30 hour optional piece of content here...thats a hell of a lot more gametime than many other games have in their entirety. you just NEED to break up this huge piece of content into chucks that may be "consumed" in seperate sittings and you cannot simply lock players in to such a huge dungeon

Edited October 18, 2012 by ComMcNeil

[Darth Trethon]

The levels wont necessarily be all combat I guess. There could be several levels where you just pick up a few quests for the lower levels then move on, taking only 10-15 minutes to explore.

 

15 levels doesn't necessarily mean 15 levels of huge 2 hour long combat sessions on every level, right?

Nope, it doesn't have to mean that. 15 rather small dungeon levels could be much less than 3 very large levels. So the actual size/length of the whole dungeon is not really dependant on the number of levels.

 

Well we are all referring to it as a "mega" dungeon so I suspect they will be rather large levels.....which is a good thing in my books. Give me levels that take two hours to explore....not all combat but a balance of all things.

 

although I share the same enthusiasm, imagine having a 30 hour optional piece of content here...thats a hell of a lot more gametime than many other games have in their entirety. you just NEED to break up this huge piece of content into chucks that may be "consumed" in seperate sittings and you cannot simply lock players in to such a huge dungeon

 

Well you could end up with a fast-travel system to and from the surface after you reach certain levels.

[ComMcNeil]

Well you could end up with a fast-travel system to and from the surface after you reach certain levels.

 

I personally would be totally fine with that - the system in the watchers keep with the portals to the surface on every level was also fine. I would even be ok with having an exit only every 2 levels (if this is made clear by the game beforehand)

[BruceVC]

14 levels is too damn long.

 

Really, you plucked a number out of the air based simply on how many people donated to your game? That's a stupid design decision! I'm going to get sick of playing level after level of dungeon. You aren't making Diablo or Torchlight!

 

Even Dragon's Eye was nowhere near 14 levels - and it managed to stay fun and fresh because of it.

 

Please, please, do something to break up the monotony of such a concept! Maybe have the second half of the dungeon only accessible by the second half of the game or something - I don't know... do something to fix what seems a really silly decision!

 

P.S. I will admit I liked the concept art for the megadungeon, so clearly you guys do plan to mix it up a bit, but I'm still highly sceptical.

 

EDIT: To clarify: Obsidian makes deep, intellectual, thoughtful RPGs, often with great combat elements. They do not make hack and slash action RPG Diablo clones. We have great games for that already, such as Borderlands 2 and Torchlight 2.

 

It never ceases to amaze me what people will complain about, its almost like some people need to complain about an aspect of a game or they feel they lack identity .

 

Lets take this concept of a Mega Dungeon. Most of us have been really excited about the idea. I have never seen a Mega dungeon implemented in a RPG in my life in such a grand way with so many levels. We don't know much about it as its early days so how can we complain about what it " might or might not have". What we know is that this is a unique and exciting part of the game that is being only developed and expanded due to the number of people supporting PE. How can anyone not be excited by the concept? Any negativity truly stupefies me

 

I like you Krezack and I respect your opinions on the Way Off Topic section but this type criticism is just making you look silly and petulant

[jediwolf]

I luv MEGA dungeons!!! Wanna 25lvl !!

[antti]

I have to say, as the dungeon is completely optional my impression was from the start that this is simply going to be a perverse test of gaming skill and endurance, a big-ass dungeon to which you can go to and get your ass handed down to you on level 2, one party member killed and then you go back to big big city (1 or 2!) to lick your wound, quest around, maybe advance the plot and then... You think you're powerful enough to brave level 2, but after that... over ten more, well, ten more ****ing levels! The key is that it's optional, and that it's hard-core, difficult, but rewarding and indeed very varied experience. That was my impression, and if allowed to vote, I'd say to a mega-dungeon like that "yes, please".

[Monte Carlo]

The term mega-dungeon originates in pen and paper gaming, specifically older iterations of D&D.

 

The idea was that the entire campaign would take place in the dungeon. The surrounding area was more or less a support mechanism for the dungeon adventure. Within the dungeon all sorts of stuff happened: there were plots, communities, traps, puzzles, danger, history, lore, exploration. Dungeon levels were also often themed: the mad cultist level, the lizardman caves, the undead crypt etc.

 

These tropes were adopted by many computer games, but given the limitations of technology and the way the market worked it ended up in the ARPG arena whereby the prejudice of dungeon = braindeath popped up.

 

Meanwhile, as many RPGs turned into a more considered, story-and-setting based genre, there was a bit of a backlash (before the old-school / OSR renaissance even WotC implored us with "Back to the Dungeon!") and gamers wanted to explore the roots of D&D. Campaigns like Greyhawk and Blackmoor.

 

So, during this period the term 'Megadungeon' came to mean a large dungeon with consistency that you would return to as an important part of your campaign, a place with a proper feel and content to it, a substantial endeavour.

 

So I understand why some people are concerned that a megadungeon = Diablo squatting like a dog turd in the middle of their game. I ask them respectfully to reconsider, look at the bona fides of the game designers and understand what went before.

 

Megadungeon = awesome.

[BruceVC]

The term mega-dungeon originates in pen and paper gaming, specifically older iterations of D&D.

 

The idea was that the entire campaign would take place in the dungeon. The surrounding area was more or less a support mechanism for the dungeon adventure. Within the dungeon all sorts of stuff happened: there were plots, communities, traps, puzzles, danger, history, lore, exploration. Dungeon levels were also often themed: the mad cultist level, the lizardman caves, the undead crypt etc.

 

These tropes were adopted by many computer games, but given the limitations of technology and the way the market worked it ended up in the ARPG arena whereby the prejudice of dungeon = braindeath popped up.

 

Meanwhile, as many RPGs turned into a more considered, story-and-setting based genre, there was a bit of a backlash (before the old-school / OSR renaissance even WotC implored us with "Back to the Dungeon!") and gamers wanted to explore the roots of D&D. Campaigns like Greyhawk and Blackmoor.

 

So, during this period the term 'Megadungeon' came to mean a large dungeon with consistency that you would return to as an important part of your campaign, a place with a proper feel and content to it, a substantial endeavour.

 

So I understand why some people are concerned that a megadungeon = Diablo squatting like a dog turd in the middle of their game. I ask them respectfully to reconsider, look at the bona fides of the game designers and understand what went before.

 

Megadungeon = awesome.

 

Nice post, accurately sums up why I also think megadungeon= awesome

Edited October 18, 2012 by BruceVC

[Pope]

snip

 

although I share the same enthusiasm, imagine having a 30 hour optional piece of content here...thats a hell of a lot more gametime than many other games have in their entirety. you just NEED to break up this huge piece of content into chucks that may be "consumed" in seperate sittings and you cannot simply lock players in to such a huge dungeon

There are more elegant ways of breaking it up besides locking the door.

 

All you need is a good pacing of combat, puzzles, revelation of lore, and maybe the occasional underground settlement with dungeon denizens to trade/converse with.

Edited October 18, 2012 by Pope

[AgentOrange]

I remember the first time I played Baldur's Gate with the expansion, I neglected to read the manual or any guides and ended up going to Durlag's Tower fairly early on; the upper part of the tower wasn't all that difficult, and I managed to complete it as I found it. The lower portion however I didn't even discover at that point. It wasn't until I got to Ulgoth's Beard that I figure out that there was an entire ****ing dungeon underground. And even at that point I wasn't quite the level for "proper" enjoyment of the dungeon. But I got through it anyway with lots of trial and error, and got some items that were overpowered at my level range (which is absolutely fine, I like being rewarded for getting through stuff that I'm not at the proper level for).

 

So, bearing in mind that some people probably aren't as stupid and unobservant as me, it could certainly be interesting to have a dungeon that is divided up into individual sections, some parts even being above ground, like Durlag's Tower, with multiple entrances - with different parts perhaps related to different quest lines outside of the dungeon. They should still be accessible without having to go through the quests, but I mean just as a way of introduction (another example would be the Super Mutant Base in FO1: you could have the Brotherhood quest take you there, or you could accidentally stumble into it (as I did...right after leaving V13)).

Edited October 18, 2012 by AgentOrange

[void_dp]

My example:

I want for this mega-dungeon to have for minimum as much storyline and comunities as was in ArxFatalis all-game megadungeon

And it can have much more battle oriented contend as well

Edited October 18, 2012 by void_dp

[ComMcNeil]

There are more elegant ways of breaking it up besides locking the door.

 

All you need is a good pacing of combat, puzzles, revelation of lore, and maybe the occasional underground settlement with dungeon denizens to trade/converse with.

 

yeah, of course there are and I pretty much dont care HOW they break it up, as long as they do it :D

[redneckdevil]

my impression when they said megadungeon, the first thing that popped inyo my head was the mage tower in da:o. That thing was massive if u chose to explore every part of it and it locked u in for a couple of hours. It was fun and there was no going back. There were no vendors and the damn thing was what 9 to 10 levels when we added in the demon world aspect of it also?

Im kinda with the "dont like it, dont play it" group. Reason? Im looking at dead money. Its one of my favorite dlcs, its almost similar to what this dungeon is trying to creat. It locked u in, it was challenging, it was dark, and it forced people to play differently. It got and still gets so much hate because of the direction it took that was some what different than the vanilla game, but tbh it just really inforced in an almost hardcore way ur spec and charector creation choices.

If they had tried to appease everyone, it would noy have been nowhere as good as a dlc it is. It wasnt for everyone, but if people actually tried to adapt to it against their playstyle or preferences, they were rewarded with some of the nest damn story and charectors I have ever seen in a game.

So no, I dont believe it would deprive people of 30% of content, I think people would deprive themselves that by not taking the chance and taking that leap and trying and adapting to the scenario. Because if obsidian has shown us anything, if theres a risk theres always a justifiable reward at the end that may not be just an item but incredible story and atmosphere.

[void_dp]

the mage tower in da:o. That thing was massive if u chose to explore every part of it and it locked u in for a couple of hours.

Hey what is it has to do with "mega"?

It was simple liniar standart (not even big) oldschool size dungeon with no variativity at all. You must multiply that couple of hours of expiriense by minimum 15 to get to the begining of feeling what megadungeons is in oldschool

Edited October 18, 2012 by void_dp

[Humanoid]

What's one level of a dungeon defined as anyway? Better 15 managable levels than one sprawling labyrinth at any rate - both from the perspective of navigability and of division of effort. In another thread I compared it to Berlin Alexanderplatz. As a movie at 15 hours, too long, surely. But that's why it's divided into 14 parts.

 

Looks like that's exactly the approach that's been taken here anyway, there will be leaps in difficulty level between the levels such that you *can't* tackle them all in one sitting.

 

 

That said, I probably won't be playing it personally unless I do repeated playthroughs.

[redneckdevil]

Sorry, was typing and forgot to type all my thoughts into that paragraph. Yes I know the da: tower wasnt mega, but it was huge and I was must imagining a much bigger somewhat more diverse version of it per se. Not the actual tower but what it had in it and the mechanics they used.

Hell so far the only "mega" dungeons I have experience with are the ones from old school ff where there was 12 levels+ with no exits besides the one at the end, being mazes, combat at every few feet, and if ya needed to get out u had to fight ur way back to the entrance.

If its a meva dungeon, then I say give us a mega dungeon. We will have an entire game filled with story, rp, options, etc etc galore, why not have this for the people who want a hardcore dungeon thats suited to people who want just somewhere that has mystery, exploration, and with enough guts and blood some kickass reward and killer baddie at the end?

Also im not oppksed to there being maybe 2 exits, as long as they are exits and not entrances and the place respawns if we leave besides minibosses. As far as logic why so few exits....the place is made with magic and cursed, why couldnt they have not cared about the workers who made it and had their exit the way they came in?

Edited October 18, 2012 by redneckdevil