Kymriana Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 And just for fun, here's Bioware writer Patrick Weekes' somewhat amusing reaction to that: http://www.rpgwatch....98&postcount=32 Well no huge surprise but I kind of agree with him. Only that I'd actually love someone to make me a medieval combat simulation, where every wound would be terrifying! Gangrene, amputations and all the lovelies. And I wouldn't mind finding a good crpg with some nice harem anime thrown in. Probably wouldn't make a great game with the two combined, but it'd be an interesting one for sure. That's... a hilarious and horrifying idea all rolled together! D: ......now I kinda want to see how it would turn out, too. o_0 It's like a car-wreck that you just can't stop looking at as you go by... /shudder 1 Finishing first is only impressive in a race, my dear.
BR4ZIL Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 The word romance hasnt been mentioned once, Mr Avellone chose his words carefully. There is nothing wrong with party banter and interaction. There is something extremely wrong with writers being forced to construct characters that fall head over heels in love with you. I dont have anything against romance, what bioware portray as romance is laughable. It's masterbation for the player, there is no meaning behind it. I would argue that the only way party romances could work and be well written is if they were between two party members and excluding the very blank faced and generic PC. Thats romance between two characters that the writters have created and I can live with that. Oh ok, i was unsure if i would take your post seriously or it was just a well made joke, still i find that it is possible to write a romance between the PC and an NPC, it would require much more effort, as you can imagine, but it can be done (despite that some disagree with me, some BG2 mods acomplish that). Lets not forget its an RPG game, you should have the option to make your PC follow a romance path if you so desire. 2
diablo169 Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 This is a role playing game reborn from a bygone era, tactical party based combat, an original and brand new setting. Some of the greatest writers and designers of RPGS ever are working on this project... Good points, good points. Therefore the tasteful and mature implementation of Romance\Sex should be no issue in the game for people of such eminent technical ability? You cannot write party members falling in love with a blank slate and call it romance. There is nothing romantic about picking the correct choice from a multiple answer quiz. It's just a dating sim when you do that, the affection bars in Dragon Age are a clue that you are infact playing a minigame. 1
Brannart Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 Wow, was Anomen Delryn (lol, he had an surname) that bad as a character? i never had him for long in my party (sorry anomen, but Edwin's gotta take your place) so i really cant say much about him (a problem i am currently facing, since i have no ideia for a banter between him & my NPC mod I didn't mind him. For one he was a force of Priestly destruction. But I didn't really get why his romance was that much worse than the others in that game. Women seem to not like him though, eh I liked the neurotic dude. They had a similar reaction to Carth IIRC. But Bioware learned something because they loved Alistair.
evdk Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 Just a question for those anti-sex, anti-romance, anti-all supporters. What do you think about Mr. Fisto Robot and Ghoul Cowboy Prostitute from Fallout: New Vegas game? That they were dumb jokes in a silly quest. Say no to popamole!
qloher Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) You can't really base a general attitude of a certain NPC towards the player on dozens of fundamentally different flags, that would be a mess and a designer's nightmare. Unless there are like 4 flags per character per game. Flags are good for permanent underlying reactions like "player kills an innocent civilian/child => companion X now hates and wants to kill you no matter your previous relationships" or said 4 flags per 4 crucial points. For more trivial things there should be a meter. First off, the meter isn't required to be seen by the player, it's just a variable on the background. Second not everyone will care about everything(except from a paladin, or any other kind of extreme lawful aligned character, perhaps). Third nesting of structures helps. Fourth C&C, choices should matter, so flags should still exist. I don't think I have ever argued against the first two statements. I actually agree with those. Also I have nothing against flags, actually I'm all for them, as many as humanly possible. If guys at Obsidian are able to make hella lot of flags per companion system that actually works - props to them, that would be absolutely awesome. Better maybe some kind of a flag/meter hybrid with lots of different flags and lots of different meters. That would be basically a dream come true. Edited October 17, 2012 by qloher
Vox Draco Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 Wow, was Anomen Delryn (lol, he had an surname) that bad as a character? i never had him for long in my party (sorry anomen, but Edwin's gotta take your place) so i really cant say much about him (a problem i am currently facing, since i have no ideia for a banter between him & my NPC mod) Yeah, the mere fact I know this after a decade makes me feel a little ashamed. His portraits annoyed me, he looked like the slimy brother of Cmdr. William Riker from Star Trek, and his whole attitude was so whiny...if you had Paladin Keldorn with you the difference in quality of these two men was so obvious it hurt. Okay, Anomen got a little more bearable later, and they say love sometimes equals suffering. Still I used a little patch later and made all romances available to my female chars...*sigh*...Anomen made them lesbians...Viconia was kinda cool though... Anyway, this might also a problem with romances...it is kind of hard to please everyone and their tastes. Some love Ashley from Mass Effect, I hate her with passion (only the Ghostchild gets more hate from me). Some think alistair is unbearable, I think Morrigan is way worse and never liked her...And Romances in Dragon Age 2 were all sucky, because I couldn't envision a relationship for my Hawke with any of these emotional trainwrecks... Vox: The only verdict is vengeance; a vendetta, held as a votive, not in vain, for the value and veracity of such shall one day vindicate the vigilant and the virtuous. Verily, this vichyssoise of verbiage veers most verbose, so let me simply add that it is my very good honor to meet you and you may call me Vox Are you ... like a crazy person? Vox: I’m quite sure they will say so.
oldmanpaco Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 This is a role playing game reborn from a bygone era, tactical party based combat, an original and brand new setting. Some of the greatest writers and designers of RPGS ever are working on this project... Good points, good points. Therefore the tasteful and mature implementation of Romance\Sex should be no issue in the game for people of such eminent technical ability? You cannot write party members falling in love with a blank slate and call it romance. There is nothing romantic about picking the correct choice from a multiple answer quiz. It's just a dating sim when you do that, the affection bars in Dragon Age are a clue that you are infact playing a minigame. What er you talking about?The jewelry I gave Morrigian to get her into the sack came from the heart. 2 Codex Explorer
SeekDWay Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 I'm all in for Romance options, I don't see how this will hurt the game experience for anyone. HOWEVER, I don't support simplified get-go unrealistic romance (read harem) options. Just because I have a NPC of the opposite gender in my party it doesn't mean that this character's sole reason for existense should be defined by my ego stroking urges. I totally want there to be romance options in the game and while I did like some of the romance options in BG2, I think that if there is such an option in PE it should be closer to what Planescape had. When you are nearing the end of the game or a party member's personal story arc, when you have invested a lot of time into understanding this chracter and have formed a bound with him/her only then should that option be possible. I don't want a Date Tycoon game, I want a mature and intelligently writen story where forming a relationship with a certain character feels like reading a good book rather than getting to the next checkpoint in Super Mario. Derpdragon of the Obsidian OrderDerpdragons everywhere. I like spears. No sleep for the Watcher... because he was busy playing Pillars of Eternity instead.
Kymriana Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 You cannot write party members falling in love with a blank slate and call it romance. There is nothing romantic about picking the correct choice from a multiple answer quiz. It's just a dating sim when you do that, the affection bars in Dragon Age are a clue that you are infact playing a minigame. Ah, here's a question for you then: If any kind of change in relationship(romance or otherwise) happened because the NPC was reacting to flags tripped by the PC's decisions earlier... they're not writing for a 'blank slate'... they're writing for the character the writers created when writing up those dialogue paths. (This is going with the 'flag-reacting dialogue trees and not a meter which is, I agree, much more minigame-esque.) The writers have created dynamic PCs when they create the dialogue choices we are given and worked into the various trees... it's choice in as much as a 'choose your own adventure' book is choice. This isn't people sitting around a table where the GM can react organically to what players are doing... it's a pre-determined outcome depending on what 'page' you flip to. Thus writing in romances doesn't come off to me as terribly hard if you have a good solid writer who has created and knows, in-depth, their characters. /shrug 1 Finishing first is only impressive in a race, my dear.
kenup Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 Just a question for those anti-sex, anti-romance, anti-all supporters. What do you think about Mr. Fisto Robot and Ghoul Cowboy Prostitute from Fallout: New Vegas game? Funny, but I still don't care about working for a pimp and drug seller, if I can help it. And the garrets are pretty much dead after I'm done with other quests involving them.
Orogun01 Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 Now now, we are polite folk around these parts. Manners say that we must show our hospitality, besides it's not like there are going to be romances in the game anyways. So be kind to these new fellas...even if one of them is dressed as a furry. 1 I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"* *If you can't tell, it's you.
Ieo Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) PE romance threads: Holding moderators hostage since September 2012. What's funny is that there are a whole bunch of "I don't understand why" or "I don't see how" etc. posts after this thread was moved from the gameplay subform to the general subforum, even though all those points were already addressed/questioned in previous posts---people just talk at and past each other, over and over, refusing to read any of the prior history except the last page or two. Topic ban was a good idea after all. Edited October 17, 2012 by Ieo 2 The KS Collector's Edition does not include the Collector's Book. Which game hook brought you to Project Eternity and interests you the most? PE will not have co-op/multiplayer, console, or tablet support (sources): [0] [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] Write your own romance mods because there won't be any in PE. "But what is an evil? Is it like water or like a hedgehog or night or lumpy?" -(Digger) "Most o' you wanderers are but a quarter moon away from lunacy at the best o' times." -Alvanhendar (Baldur's Gate 1)
Brannart Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) I'm all in for Romance options, I don't see how this will hurt the game experience for anyone. HOWEVER, I don't support simplified get-go unrealistic romance (read harem) options. Just because I have a NPC of the opposite gender in my party it doesn't mean that this character's sole reason for existense should be defined by my ego stroking urges. I totally want there to be romance options in the game and while I did like some of the romance options in BG2, I think that if there is such an option in PE it should be closer to what Planescape had. When you are nearing the end of the game or a party member's personal story arc, when you have invested a lot of time into understanding this chracter and have formed a bound with him/her only then should that option be possible. I don't want a Date Tycoon game, I want a mature and intelligently writen story where forming a relationship with a certain character feels like reading a good book rather than getting to the next checkpoint in Super Mario. This is very odd, because you seem to go on to restate peoples concerns with romances right after you said that you did not understand those concerns. Edited October 17, 2012 by Brannart
qloher Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) By the way, BSN-based bullying looks pretty pathetic. It kinda shows when your opponent's only argument is a name-calling founded on anecdotal assumptions. Edited October 17, 2012 by qloher 2
SeekDWay Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) I'm all in for Romance options, I don't see how this will hurt the game experience for anyone. HOWEVER, I don't support simplified get-go unrealistic romance (read harem) options. Just because I have a NPC of the opposite gender in my party it doesn't mean that this character's sole reason for existense should be defined by my ego stroking urges. I totally want there to be romance options in the game and while I did like some of the romance options in BG2, I think that if there is such an option in PE it should be closer to what Planescape had. When you are nearing the end of the game or a party member's personal story arc, when you have invested a lot of time into understanding this chracter and have formed a bound with him/her only then should that option be possible. I don't want a Date Tycoon game, I want a mature and intelligently writen story where forming a relationship with a certain character feels like reading a good book rather than getting to the next checkpoint in Super Mario. This is very odd, because you seem to go on to restate peoples concerns with romances right after you said that you did not understand those concerns. I'll make this less odd for you. I'd rather have a succubus touch me with a finger at the end of the game then a party of aliens who want to dry hump me to death. I hope I made myself clear now. (Even though the correct meaning the word romance still eludes me) Edited October 17, 2012 by SeekDWay Derpdragon of the Obsidian OrderDerpdragons everywhere. I like spears. No sleep for the Watcher... because he was busy playing Pillars of Eternity instead.
oldmanpaco Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 People keep throwing the word harem around in this thread. Now that is idea I could get behind. Tie it in with the stronghold and you could even make a little mini-management-game out of it. Codex Explorer
LadyCrimson Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 Post limit reached. Since this appears to remain a popular topic, and in an effort to keep it a bit centralized, a new thread for this discussion will be created. “Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts
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