Update #23: Less than 50 Hours to Go! Documentary News, Playing Cards, and New Wallpaper!

[Lasharus]

I sort of want to add to my own pledge to get the extras, but I paid through PayPal.

 

Do I just make a donation, or should I just wait 'till it ends and then note that I want additional package pieces?

 

Sorry to re-quote myself like this, but I'd quite like a bit of certainty - does anyone know which I should do? Preferably before the kickstarter ends?

To my knowledge you just up your pledge by the respective amount, wait for the suvey to be sent, let them know which addons you were after.

 

That also works through PayPal?

 

Eh, works for me. I'll look into upping the amount in a bit then.

 

EDIT: Can't believe I didn't say this. Thanks for the response.

 

EDIT EDIT: Pledg'd. Now to wait for the expansion. And for the site to allow donation for the pack of cards. This project is sapping my money, blast it!

Edited October 15, 2012 by Lasharus

[Hornet85]

I hope the playing cards are made by USPC and please don't make plastic cards, they get sticky very quickly

[hideo kuze]

Ok.

But since KS works on the base of donations and Feargus (from that quote someone posted here) said he will use the goods production costs (instead of the donation value), I guess there is no need for the viaddress type of thing.

[rjshae]

Eh. I'm no lawyer but ti doesn't take much to figure that promising x in exchange for money and reneging on x is tantamount to fraud.

 

from: http://www.lectlaw.com/def/f079.htm

 

The term 'fraud' is generally defined in the law as an intentional misrepresentation of material existing fact made by one person to another with knowledge of its falsity and for the purpose of inducing the other person to act, and upon which the other person relies with resulting injury or damage. [Fraud may also include an omission or intentional failure to state material facts, knowledge of which would be necessary to make other statements not misleading.]

 

You have to prove that they intend to break their word.

 

As an example, the author of a certain open-source non-linear video editor is, apparently, using his two successful kickstarter campaigns to travel to software conventions around the world instead of getting the NLE into shape to make basic edits. However, there is code in a public repository, so he can claim that he isn't defrauding his contributers, even though the kickstarter campaigns are his only source of income and these conventions and travel to them are not free.

 

Perhaps one should keep in mind that Obsidian does have some wiggle room on their Kickstarter pledges. I'm sure Obsidian will satisfy their stretch goals, but the budget may end up limiting what they can do while completing them. For example, the Stronghold may be 85% of what they would like to accomplish rather than 100%. But the end product can still be enjoyable and you may scarcely notice the difference. (I'm not saying that they will do that; I'm just assuming good faith at this point.)

 

As for conventions, some companies view those as educational opportunities that help developers keep up their skills set. Most serious conventions provide more benefit than they cost, otherwise there wouldn't be much point to them.

[Kaldurenik]

Make a 3.7 or 4.0 stretch goal to make more hype!

[Darth Trethon]

Enough with the nonsense already. Are you all forgetting that Obsidian has been making the best of games for a very long time now? They have recently been working and continue to work on high profile AAA titles. They KNOW how to manage their budget and how to plan their finances. If Obsidian says they can make and deliver X amount of content for X amount of dollars then they can do it, the end. It's also important to remember that while the game may look amazing it is still being made with significantly more old-school tech than the AAA titles we see released these days which also makes development a lot easier and faster. There is no doubt in my mind that Obsidian will not only deliver on what they promised but that they will exceed expectations.

[Darth Trethon]

Make a 3.7 or 4.0 stretch goal to make more hype!

 

Both have been passed, no good. Maybe a 3.4 or 3.3 mil stretch goal but something that runs very cheap and won't put a significant dent of the big city budget. But all in all 3.5 is fine as is and we'll likely get the big city anyway.

 

That said, I am very excited for tonight, this is the last update before the kickstarter ends so it should be quite special if it doesn't bring any great announcement or addition. Maybe another epic screenshot.

[Sabotai]

With regard to Taxes and Customs:

 

I specifically ordered the Digital only tier, instead of Collectors Box, even though I'd love a cloth map.

 

I live in The Netherlands, but this probably applies to most EU-countries.

 

If you order physical goods above € 22 you will be taxed for customs, administration costs AND VAT.

This is normally in the range of € 10 administration and handling + 15-30% customs and 21% VAT over total value (price of game+shipping costs+ administration+custom costs).

 

To be short, it can become pretty expensive.

 

So if Obsidian includes documents that the game costs only € 20,-- I'd probably be safe. But if a customs official does 1 google search regarding price of collectors edition of Project Eternity you'll probably get a pretty hefty tax/customs fine.

Edited October 15, 2012 by Sabotai

[Kai]

What I'm curious about is how you put a value initially on the physical things we've pledged for initially. Let's say I've taken the 140$ tier+ international shipping added in my pledge. A lot of the stuff in that package are digital, and aren't imported through customs. As those things do have a value, it should logically mean that the value of my package is less than 140$, but how much less? And since I've paid for it about year and a half before shipping, how can the customs keep tabs on the value in the first place?

[Darth Trethon]

What I'm curious about is how you put a value initially on the physical things we've pledged for initially. Let's say I've taken the 140$ tier+ international shipping added in my pledge. A lot of the stuff in that package are digital, and aren't imported through customs. As those things do have a value, it should logically mean that the value of my package is less than 140$, but how much less? And since I've paid for it about year and a half before shipping, how can the customs keep tabs on the value in the first place?

 

The idea presumes a value of the CE at the game's release but I think what will most likely happen is that there won't be any physical boxed versions of PE at release(regular or collector's) and this will end up a backer exclusive item. therefore there won't be anything for the customs officials to google.

[Sabotai]

What I'm curious about is how you put a value initially on the physical things we've pledged for initially. Let's say I've taken the 140$ tier+ international shipping added in my pledge. A lot of the stuff in that package are digital, and aren't imported through customs. As those things do have a value, it should logically mean that the value of my package is less than 140$, but how much less? And since I've paid for it about year and a half before shipping, how can the customs keep tabs on the value in the first place?

 

The idea presumes a value of the CE at the game's release but I think what will most likely happen is that there won't be any physical boxed versions of PE at release(regular or collector's) and this will end up a backer exclusive item. therefore there won't be anything for the customs officials to google.

 

If customs officials can't determine the value, they ask you to send proof of purchase (sales receipt, paypal transactions etc). In the netherlands the burden of proof lies with the recipient.

 

If they see a collectors' edition computer game they will probably dertermine its price higher than € 22, digital deliveriy nothwithstanding; it also depends on accompanying paperwork and even transporters; fedex automatically sends almost every delivery through customs.

 

Keep in mind, this is the Netherlands; I can imagine different practices for different countries, even if they are part of EU.

[Hopper]

It's similar in Germany. However, if there is written retailers invoice (they have accepted order confirmations e-mails that include the amount charged to my credit card), that counts as proof of price. However, that's the thing, since this is not a buy/sell process, I wonder how it will work. Technically Obsidian could write 20 $ on the box, but they will still want to see a document with the price I paid, and that would be a 180 $ credit card bill then (or whichever is your tier) ...

[floyd ryan]

Stoic (Banner Saga) declared the physical stuff (Poster, shirt, button) as a gift with $10 value. The Posterroll has a green sticker by the german customs office that says "Freed from customs processing". Had no problems. Obsidian should do it equally as it isn't a purchase legally. Official confirmation by Obsidian would be great.

[Hornet85]

Ah yes, the agony of import taxes.

 

I'm thankful for digital only tiers. Wasteland 2 only offered up to $55 which was what I took, kind of wished they offered higher digital tiers. I'm glad PE offers higher digital tiers too.

 

Future Kickstarter projects should take note.

[Waywocket]

It's similar in Germany. However, if there is written retailers invoice (they have accepted order confirmations e-mails that include the amount charged to my credit card), that counts as proof of price. However, that's the thing, since this is not a buy/sell process, I wonder how it will work. Technically Obsidian could write 20 $ on the box, but they will still want to see a document with the price I paid, and that would be a 180 $ credit card bill then (or whichever is your tier) ...

 

That bill doesn't specify exactly what it's for though, just that it's a payment to Kickstarter, and you could honestly say that that payment was for the goods in question plus a number of other digital goods - you 'bought' multiple things, and this is one of them.

 

If, as someone in this thread mentioned, Obsidian label the package with the cost of the physical materials, that's honest, legally legit, and sensible - I can't see that customs would have room to complain there.

 

Or if it comes to it, they could work out a cost break-down and provide an itemised bill that shows a sensible value for the physical goods, and that you could give as evidence.

 

Personally I'm not too upset at the idea of paying customs charges per se (though I think it's an inequitable tax), but I would be very upset at having to pay based on the total pledged amount, because that really isn't what I paid for - the physical package truly, honestly isn't worth that.

 

Does anyone have any experience of importing something where the cost of a package doesn't correspond 1:1 with a payment made? Say as part of a subscription with a one-time cost perhaps? I'm trying to think of other situations where this issue might arise.

[ScottE]

Any info on what the playing cards are made from? we amateur magicians would like to know if they are proper air cushion/air flow card or plastic?

The former is good for tricks, the later is not.

I'm looking into printing options right now. I got a quote in with one printer right now waiting for them to get back to me. As someone else suggested, I'll check with US Playing Card Company also.

[Atheria]

Where did you get the info on how much the PayPal funding has brought in?

[Krios]

To make it more streamlined, can the playing cards be added to the Obsidian website, with its own addon donate button?