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Update #23: Less than 50 Hours to Go! Documentary News, Playing Cards, and New Wallpaper!

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Okay, it's official. I put in enough for two decks of cards. One for me and one for someone else. Well played, you glorious bastards! Well played!

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Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community:  Happy Holidays

 

Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:
Obsidian Plays


 
Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris.  Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends!

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You know i've never had a problem importing/buying items from overseas before. Does Australia even have import taxes on things like this???

 

Over $1000 I think they do.

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You know i've never had a problem importing/buying items from overseas before. Does Australia even have import taxes on things like this???

 

Over $1000 I think they do.

 

Ahhh, that's probably why then. I don't think i've ever come close to that.


18hg6f.jpg?t=1350556308


The shadow in the corner of your eye. The cold steel pressed to your throat.


The beautiful vision that may be your last.


Do not breath, for the Petite Death has your Soul in her hand.


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This is my first kickstarter, so out of curiosity, what happens if we get to 2014 and Obsidian is like "Eh, I know we made 3.5M but we ran out and cant do [half the stuff we promised]?

 

Is there a get-your-money-back mechanism?

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I believe you agree that your pledge is a donation. However, Obsidian entertainment has done several multi-million dollar titles, so it's just simply not feasible that they'll not make good on their promises. This isn't some fly by night company and Obsidian will have completely have destroyed their quite good reputation as an established business in the industry if they leave all of their backers in the dust. I don't think they'd get another contract from an established publisher again. That's my personal take. Maybe others have something to say.


Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community:  Happy Holidays

 

Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:
Obsidian Plays


 
Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris.  Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends!

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Not quite. They have a legal obligation to follow through on their KS promises. You simply can'tt ake someone's money and promise x and return and not deliver. That's fraud. No matter how you weasel. It's also part of the KS sign up rules.

 

It's not a donation. A donation is soemthing you give with no expecations of return. When you give money to a KS campaign like this you are paying for stuff. That's why there are different tiers - to entice you to pony up. Afterall, how many people upped the money they give solely to have access to an expansion tier? Probably quite a few.

 

One KS fellow alreayd got into trouble and lost a summary judgement when he forfeited and order to pay up. but, he had multiple non KS debts as well, and filed for bankruptcy so he has no money whatsoever.

 

Once the KS is officially over and completed (and they already passed their initial goal so that is a foregone conclusion) they have to do their upmost best to follow through on their legal obligations or face the wrath of the legal system.

 

That said, this is a professional company with their professional reputation and life on the line. I don't see them taking the money and running. Thi isn't some rinky dinky operation. That's why I ponied up money. I don't expect them to screw things up to sucha horrible degree.

 

There is a reason why fraud laws exist. :)

Edited by Volourn

DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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...And I take it that Vol knows what he's talking about more than I do. :Cant's tip of the hat icon: One way or the other, I don't think they'll renege on their promises.


Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community:  Happy Holidays

 

Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:
Obsidian Plays


 
Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris.  Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends!

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Eh. I'm no lawyer but ti doesn't take much to figure that promising x in exchange for money and reneging on x is tantamount to fraud. And, like I said, there's also prior KS hsitory backing it up as well. If I bothered I'd find the link to that. Then KS's own warning when you go to create your KS campaign also reminds you of your legal obligations. Of coruse, most people aren't going to track down a lawyer for a lousy $100 but there is a way to deal with that enmasse. But if you are giving bigger amounts (like $10k) you aren't gonna justa ccept that as a 'loss'.

 

Afterall, Cant could start a KS and ask for a reasonable amount for whatever, get the money b/c he's a cool ddue and run off. Law would say not so fast, dude, that's fraud and theft. Time to pay up. Just sayin'.

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DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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hmm... Shouldn't it be 9 levels of the megadungeon now?

 

50000 -> 3 levels

52500 -> 4 levels

55000 -> 5 levels

57500 -> 6 levels

60000 -> 7 levels

62500 -> 8 levels

facebook -> 9 levels

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Eh. I'm no lawyer but ti doesn't take much to figure that promising x in exchange for money and reneging on x is tantamount to fraud.

 

from: http://www.lectlaw.com/def/f079.htm

 

The term 'fraud' is generally defined in the law as an intentional misrepresentation of material existing fact made by one person to another with knowledge of its falsity and for the purpose of inducing the other person to act, and upon which the other person relies with resulting injury or damage. [Fraud may also include an omission or intentional failure to state material facts, knowledge of which would be necessary to make other statements not misleading.]

 

You have to prove that they intend to break their word.

 

As an example, the author of a certain open-source non-linear video editor is, apparently, using his two successful kickstarter campaigns to travel to software conventions around the world instead of getting the NLE into shape to make basic edits. However, there is code in a public repository, so he can claim that he isn't defrauding his contributers, even though the kickstarter campaigns are his only source of income and these conventions and travel to them are not free.

 

That being said, Kickstarter is not a store.

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With each update, I get more excited about the game.

 

Make all the back of the cards different. It will make playing poker easier. :biggrin:


We are all guilty of the same things, but it is whether or not we see them through that's the difference.

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Pseudo, nothing you posted or link is contrary to what I posted.


DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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I sure want those playing cards. Obsidian has really planned the pledge tiers well, since I'm really considering pledging over 100$ even though originally I was perfectly fine with the simple boxed version tier.

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Just an FYI to curious parties, I've asked a question on the KS comment thread, and had it answered by the team (Feargus actually):

 

SD asks...

@Feargus, Darren: I apologize if this has already been answered, but where it was asked in the update #23 comment thread, it was not answered; will the production documentary be released episodically (possibly with little side quests, a la Double Fine Adventure), or monolithically nearing release? If this has not been fully determined, please consider my vote on the side of an in-progress, episodic affair. It rocks, over at DFA, and I can't stress how involved it makes us feel, regardless of how one-sided it actually is.

 

Feargus delivers...

@SD We want to deliver some episodes during development, I don't know if we will do one every month at this point. However, we are going to be updating you all frequently outside of the documentary with web blogs, chats and posts of info.

@SD That was from Feargus

 

Really happy with that answer, actually. What if they have a really slow month and not much to document? Perhaps art updates and live chats are more appropriate for that month. What if there is a month so packed with awesome that they really want to do an episode and a "side quest" short video? Or more than one? They can do it. I'm on board for that level of flexibility. Also, the team can include behind-the-scene goodies on the final documentary which were not made available until the end, namely fun content that also happens to have spoilers sprinkled throughout (especially the funny bits!).

 

Anywho... you may return to your regularly scheduled Kickstarter legal discussion ;)

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Another good update! Documentary is a nice bonus, and I'm sure the cards will be awesome too.

 

Just wish I wasn't in the UK, I'd love to go for a physical tier but don't want to get stung by import taxes...

 

You can use services like "viaddress.com" for receiving goods in USA and then from there ship to europe. When you ship you can declare any value for the goods....

wow!

is this legit?

how much would you pay for one package?

 

I'm sure there are a LOT of backers that are not in US and would like to use something like this if it's legal and solves the customs issue.

 

 

If Obsidian could look into this... it would make possible for a LOT of backers to raise their pledges a bit more.

 

Sure, basically you do shopping over USA via ebay or in this case for PE, you will have "free shipping" to your USA address, then you have 3 months for ask them to repack everything in a single box and ship to your final address (for me Italy).

 

Since it will be a shipping from your name in usa to your name in europe it will be a private - to private shipping and you are able to say "it's a 20 dollar value".

 

I've already used it some times and got no custom taxes.

 

Only one remarks: viaddress service is free but right now they ship only with FEDEX and prices are not so cheap, if you collect many goods, before shipping to your home always ask them for a repack, it will allow you to save money for the final shipping.

 

Hope this will help you.

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Another good update! Documentary is a nice bonus, and I'm sure the cards will be awesome too.

 

Just wish I wasn't in the UK, I'd love to go for a physical tier but don't want to get stung by import taxes...

 

You can use services like "viaddress.com" for receiving goods in USA and then from there ship to europe. When you ship you can declare any value for the goods....

wow!

is this legit?

It's not legit to declare a value lower than the actual value of the contents. You'll only run into problems if your package gets inspected.

 

 

I do not agree, onece the material is in my home (viaddress home) I can ship it everywhere in the world and if I decide that it value is 5, 10, 15, 20 dollars it's up to me and to no one else.

 

Regards

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Eh. I'm no lawyer but ti doesn't take much to figure that promising x in exchange for money and reneging on x is tantamount to fraud.

 

Yes and no. There are a lot of KS project where a donation really is just a donation.

 

If there's a reward specified for a particular tier though, that has to be honoured; since all the game projects so far have promised copies for donations above some minimal amount, that effectively means they need to complete the project. For projects where the rewards are something other than the finished product (there are a lot of these in other categories), their only requirement is to fulfil those rewards, not necessarily the project itself.

 

(I realise that's not incompatible with what you wrote; I don't want to contradict, just clarify.)

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You know i've never had a problem importing/buying items from overseas before. Does Australia even have import taxes on things like this???

 

As mentioned, the threshold is $1000AUD, and anything above that is a triple-whammy: you are charged the 10% GST, import duty (varies based on what the goods are classified as) and a processing fee of $40-60 depending on import method and declaration method.

 

I've never 'legitimately' had to go through the process, but there was one time where I imported a bike worth about $800, which was mistakenly tagged as over the threshold because it came in two separate boxes: one for the frame and one for the wheels. Each box had the same copy of the invoice so customs added up the values and tried to charge me based on a calculated value of $1600 (GST+processing fee, as complete bikes attract an import duty of 0%). Got it sorted by forwarding the original invoice to their mailbox and didn't have to pay anything.

 

Another good update! Documentary is a nice bonus, and I'm sure the cards will be awesome too.

 

Just wish I wasn't in the UK, I'd love to go for a physical tier but don't want to get stung by import taxes...

 

You can use services like "viaddress.com" for receiving goods in USA and then from there ship to europe. When you ship you can declare any value for the goods....

wow!

is this legit?

It's not legit to declare a value lower than the actual value of the contents. You'll only run into problems if your package gets inspected.

 

 

I do not agree, onece the material is in my home (viaddress home) I can ship it everywhere in the world and if I decide that it value is 5, 10, 15, 20 dollars it's up to me and to no one else.

 

Regards

 

Completely depends on the policy of the country it's being sent to. Over here in Australia, customs can and will inspect packages and value imports at "reasonable" market rate if it's apparent that the value has been underdeclared. If lucky, that's all they'll do, but worse can happen. It'd probably flag future imports to the same address as being suspicious too.


L I E S T R O N G
L I V E W R O N G

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Another good update! Documentary is a nice bonus, and I'm sure the cards will be awesome too.

 

Just wish I wasn't in the UK, I'd love to go for a physical tier but don't want to get stung by import taxes...

 

You can use services like "viaddress.com" for receiving goods in USA and then from there ship to europe. When you ship you can declare any value for the goods....

wow!

is this legit?

It's not legit to declare a value lower than the actual value of the contents. You'll only run into problems if your package gets inspected.

 

 

I do not agree, onece the material is in my home (viaddress home) I can ship it everywhere in the world and if I decide that it value is 5, 10, 15, 20 dollars it's up to me and to no one else.

 

Regards

Customs isn't going to care much about your opinion, if your package gets inspected, they will look up the general value of the goods online/against a list to determine its price. You can, of course, appeal, but the law wouldn't be on your side. And customs would hold your package until the fee is paid.

 

Customs is generally operated by the police.


"What if a mid-life crisis is just getting halfway through the game and realising you put all your points into the wrong skill tree?"

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Another good update! Documentary is a nice bonus, and I'm sure the cards will be awesome too.

 

Just wish I wasn't in the UK, I'd love to go for a physical tier but don't want to get stung by import taxes...

 

You can use services like "viaddress.com" for receiving goods in USA and then from there ship to europe. When you ship you can declare any value for the goods....

wow!

is this legit?

It's not legit to declare a value lower than the actual value of the contents. You'll only run into problems if your package gets inspected.

 

 

I do not agree, onece the material is in my home (viaddress home) I can ship it everywhere in the world and if I decide that it value is 5, 10, 15, 20 dollars it's up to me and to no one else.

 

Regards

Customs isn't going to care much about your opinion, if your package gets inspected, they will look up the general value of the goods online/against a list to determine its price. You can, of course, appeal, but the law wouldn't be on your side. Customs would hold your package until the fee is paid, or destroy it if it's not.

"What if a mid-life crisis is just getting halfway through the game and realising you put all your points into the wrong skill tree?"

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Customs isn't going to care much about your opinion, if your package gets inspected, they will look up the general value of the goods online/against a list to determine its price. You can, of course, appeal, but the law wouldn't be on your side. Customs would hold your package until the fee is paid, or destroy it if it's not.

 

My experience with this sort of thing (in the UK at least) is that you get the package, and then they send you an extra bill two weeks later. And that's how I learned about customs charges.

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I sort of want to add to my own pledge to get the extras, but I paid through PayPal.

 

Do I just make a donation, or should I just wait 'till it ends and then note that I want additional package pieces?

 

Sorry to re-quote myself like this, but I'd quite like a bit of certainty - does anyone know which I should do? Preferably before the kickstarter ends? :p

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I sort of want to add to my own pledge to get the extras, but I paid through PayPal.

 

Do I just make a donation, or should I just wait 'till it ends and then note that I want additional package pieces?

 

Sorry to re-quote myself like this, but I'd quite like a bit of certainty - does anyone know which I should do? Preferably before the kickstarter ends? :p

To my knowledge you just up your pledge by the respective amount, wait for the suvey to be sent, let them know which addons you were after.

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