Armour & weapon designs - a plea (part II).

[Karranthain]

If you want to create a wizard who wears plate armor and hacks away with a broadsword from behind a heavily-enhanced arcane veil, we want to let you do that. If your idea of the perfect fighter is one who wears light armor and uses a variety of dazzling rapier attacks in rapid succession, we want to help you make that character.

 

source : http://www.kickstart...ty/posts/321413

 

That gives me an idea :

 

 

 

Firing a musket and then charging into the fray, broadsword raised, sounds like my idea of fun

[Karranthain]

Would that be close to what you had in mind?

 

Pretty much exactly at that.

Well maybe the adventurer could be a little more adventurish, but that'd definitely work and it'd be a wide variety anyway.

 

Found something interesting.

 

I must say I really like this one - it's not exactly historical, but it's definitely influenced by real designs; only used in a unique combination. Best of all, it looks both believable and practical.

[Karranthain]

If armor types like hide (or scale, or mail) should remain viable on their own, how should that "upgrade" be expressed to the player? Functional descriptors like "fine scale", "superior hide", etc.? Cultural or material descriptors like "Vailian doublet", "iron feather scale"? Olde tyme numerical descriptors like "scale armor +1", "half-plate +2"?

 

source : http://www.kickstart...-eternity/posts

 

Which one would you prefer? I'd definitely be in favour of Cultural or material descriptors. I'd love it if plate armour, for an instance, would look different between cultures.

 

E.g.

 

Dyrwood Plate

 

Vailian Plate

[FlintlockJazz]

I honestly don't think things like hide should stay relevant: there is a reason that more advanced cultures don't use older armours anymore, your barbarian will just have to adapt or hope that they can decorate the armour to make it look more 'savage' or something, or at least thats my hope.

[Juneau]

Just please no chain mail bikinis.... They serve NO PURPOSE.

[Monte Carlo]

Just please no chain mail bikinis.... They serve NO PURPOSE.

 

[Wench]

Sure they serve a purpose, its just not an in character purpose. They make good screenshots for marketting to use.

Edited November 1, 2012 by Wench

[Karranthain]

I honestly don't think things like hide should stay relevant: there is a reason that more advanced cultures don't use older armours anymore, your barbarian will just have to adapt or hope that they can decorate the armour to make it look more 'savage' or something, or at least thats my hope.

 

I agree. My answer to the question quoted below is that it'd make perfect sense if said barbarian/ranger was forced to forgo using obsolete armour if circumstance demanded it. That'd make the world more believable.

 

Should something like hide armor be supplanted/made obsolete by leather as an "improved version" or does that effectively kill the visual concept of the rough-hewn rawhide-wearing ranger or barbarian?

[jivex5k]

I think gameplay should come before realism, and I'd love to see all armor types viable for one reason or another.

[FlintlockJazz]

I honestly don't think things like hide should stay relevant: there is a reason that more advanced cultures don't use older armours anymore, your barbarian will just have to adapt or hope that they can decorate the armour to make it look more 'savage' or something, or at least thats my hope.

 

I agree. My answer to the question quoted below is that it'd make perfect sense if said barbarian/ranger was forced to forgo using obsolete armour if circumstance demanded it. That'd make the world more believable.

 

Should something like hide armor be supplanted/made obsolete by leather as an "improved version" or does that effectively kill the visual concept of the rough-hewn rawhide-wearing ranger or barbarian?

 

Exactly and it shows a sense of progression culturally as well as level wise: Thug the Barbarian, after adventuring in the Civilised lands has adapted and learnt the techniques used there rather than remaining static and unchanging. If my western character travelled to the east I would expect him to adapt to the culture there, much like how the crusaders changed their style f dress while in the Holy Land.

[motorizer]

I honestly don't think things like hide should stay relevant: there is a reason that more advanced cultures don't use older armours anymore, your barbarian will just have to adapt or hope that they can decorate the armour to make it look more 'savage' or something, or at least thats my hope.

 

I agree. My answer to the question quoted below is that it'd make perfect sense if said barbarian/ranger was forced to forgo using obsolete armour if circumstance demanded it. That'd make the world more believable.

 

Should something like hide armor be supplanted/made obsolete by leather as an "improved version" or does that effectively kill the visual concept of the rough-hewn rawhide-wearing ranger or barbarian?

 

Exactly and it shows a sense of progression culturally as well as level wise: Thug the Barbarian, after adventuring in the Civilised lands has adapted and learnt the techniques used there rather than remaining static and unchanging. If my western character travelled to the east I would expect him to adapt to the culture there, much like how the crusaders changed their style f dress while in the Holy Land.

 

Its a fantasy world with different creatures, there might be hides that are much tougher than anything on earth...

Edited November 1, 2012 by motorizer

[Karranthain]

I think gameplay should come before realism, and I'd love to see all armor types viable for one reason or another.

 

I'd say it's more about verisimilitude than realism. Moreover, static gameplay isn't really particularly interesting, is it?

 

Exactly and it shows a sense of progression culturally as well as level wise: Thug the Barbarian, after adventuring in the Civilised lands has adapted and learnt the techniques used there rather than remaining static and unchanging. If my western character travelled to the east I would expect him to adapt to the culture there, much like how the crusaders changed their style f dress while in the Holy Land.

 

That's a good example.

 

Its a fantasy world with different creatures, there might be hides that are much tougher than anything on earth...

 

All the same, that hide would eventually rot, unless tanned. Riveting some metal plates into leather made from it would also be a good idea, etc.

[TrashMan]

Should something like hide armor be supplanted/made obsolete by leather as an "improved version" or does that effectively kill the visual concept of the rough-hewn rawhide-wearing ranger or barbarian?

 

No, not really.

 

Visual prefferences should not trump reason and functionality.

 

That said, if someoen waants to run around in a loncloith, he's allowed to do so.

But I don't want to see him be just as effective as a guy in full-plate. Doing so is an auto-fail in my book.

[Grotesque]

I would to see in the game armours that are designed for particular races.

 

A human could not wear armour made for orcs or dwarves because the body shape is completely different.

 

Finding a banded mail for your orc only would be more rewarding

 

[Tamerlane]

But but but but that's something Mass Effect did and Bioware Mass Effect casual sex scene Gaider.

[Hormalakh]

 

All the same, that hide would eventually rot, unless tanned. Riveting some metal plates into leather made from it would also be a good idea, etc.

 

What if by tanning it, it loses some of its special properties? And adding rivets to it changes it structurally and is no longer as strong as it would otherwise be? Then it makes sense for that hide to stay a hide and to wear it until it rots. Then I'll think of another armor to wear.

[Hormalakh]

I would to see in the game armours that are designed for particular races.

 

A human could not wear armour made for orcs or dwarves because the body shape is completely different.

 

Finding a banded mail for your orc only would be more rewarding

 

 

They did this in Arcanum: small, normal, large. I hated it mainly because I couldn't ever find the right armor drop with the right size even at Blacksmiths. It was interesting though.

[Monte Carlo]

I'd say it's more about verisimilitude than realism.

 

Sometimes I ask myself...

 

WHAT WOULD A LARPer DO???

 

[Tamerlane]

I would to see in the game armours that are designed for particular races.

 

A human could not wear armour made for orcs or dwarves because the body shape is completely different.

 

Finding a banded mail for your orc only would be more rewarding

 

 

They did this in Arcanum: small, normal, large. I hated it mainly because I couldn't ever find the right armor drop with the right size even at Blacksmiths. It was interesting though.

Wrex spent a ****load of time wearing bright pink because that was the only krogan armour I could ever find...

[TrashMan]

As long as we avoid this:

 

[Solviulnir the Soulbinder]

I like Grotesque's idea of race specific armours.

It makes sense that an elf/human would not fit in dwarven armour, or the other way around BUT to make this kind of mechanic a bit more flexible (so as to avoid situations like the one with pink Krogan armour), maybe you could ask a blacksmith to scrap some parts (shoulder pads, breast plates etc.) of the armour that won't fit you to make either a new, larger or smaller armour or to upgrade/repair your current one.

Edited November 3, 2012 by Solviulnir the Soulbinder

[Karranthain]

All the same, that hide would eventually rot, unless tanned. Riveting some metal plates into leather made from it would also be a good idea, etc.

 

What if by tanning it, it loses some of its special properties? And adding rivets to it changes it structurally and is no longer as strong as it would otherwise be? Then it makes sense for that hide to stay a hide and to wear it until it rots. Then I'll think of another armor to wear.

 

What if there's something more efficient than tannin in the world of PE? If adding rivets would weaken it structurally, I'd assume that it wouldn't be a good protection in the first place, would it? I'm definitely not an expert on leatherworking though, so I could be wrong about that

 

And are you willing to suffer a massive charisma penalty (and possibly being barred from entering taverns) due to wearing rotting armour? I guess stealth should be disabled too, since your enemies would smell you well before they'd see you

[Hormalakh]

All the same, that hide would eventually rot, unless tanned. Riveting some metal plates into leather made from it would also be a good idea, etc.

 

What if by tanning it, it loses some of its special properties? And adding rivets to it changes it structurally and is no longer as strong as it would otherwise be? Then it makes sense for that hide to stay a hide and to wear it until it rots. Then I'll think of another armor to wear.

 

What if there's something more efficient than tannin in the world of PE? If adding rivets would weaken it structurally, I'd assume that it wouldn't be a good protection in the first place, would it? I'm definitely not an expert on leatherworking though, so I could be wrong about that

 

And are you willing to suffer a massive charisma penalty (and possibly being barred from entering taverns) due to wearing rotting armour? I guess stealth should be disabled too, since your enemies would smell you well before they'd see you

 

the point was to give a reason as to why you wouldn't want to necessarily go up the tier.

[Karranthain]

All the same, that hide would eventually rot, unless tanned. Riveting some metal plates into leather made from it would also be a good idea, etc.

 

What if by tanning it, it loses some of its special properties? And adding rivets to it changes it structurally and is no longer as strong as it would otherwise be? Then it makes sense for that hide to stay a hide and to wear it until it rots. Then I'll think of another armor to wear.

 

What if there's something more efficient than tannin in the world of PE? If adding rivets would weaken it structurally, I'd assume that it wouldn't be a good protection in the first place, would it? I'm definitely not an expert on leatherworking though, so I could be wrong about that

 

And are you willing to suffer a massive charisma penalty (and possibly being barred from entering taverns) due to wearing rotting armour? I guess stealth should be disabled too, since your enemies would smell you well before they'd see you

 

the point was to give a reason as to why you wouldn't want to necessarily go up the tier.

 

And that's a fair one - I was merely posting some counterarguments; both sides have merit.

 

That said, my main gripe with this solution is that it's static, and thus not particularly interesting gameplay wise (at least in my opinion). Progressing through armour tiers is far more enjoyable for me. Doubly so because it's also more sensible.

[SophosTheWise]

Still advocating for Landsknechts.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes it's me.

Edited November 5, 2012 by SophosTheWise