Drowsy Emperor Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Since this is about the ME trilogy (although you wouldn't know it by reading most of the posts) I think its fitting to stand back and look at what the ME series did right and what it did wrong. It was certainly a major success, financially and with the critics. I think its finest points are audio-visual design, world building and some of its characters. The second and (presumably, since I'm not going to play it) the third game had pretty good combat gameplay too, better than the first. The cinematic quality of 90ties SF shows was successfully recreated faithfully to the point that the game could be considered their equal (in both their good and bad points). The lows would be the convoluted and unoriginal storyline, level design (during missions), questionable minigames and lack of ability to customize the main character in terms of personality. Shepard exhibited too little growth as a result of the binary choices the game forces you to pick between. Overall the series could be called one of the high points of modern gaming although this praise is a two edged sword. While great strides have been made in the technical aspects of game design, a lot of the charm has been lost by excessive streamlining, railroading and fear of innovation in the weakest aspect of games in general - storytelling. As such, much effort is squandered in treading over familiar ground - and most of the games (ME series included) fail to sustain the initial great impression when its revealed that underneath all the shine there isn't a truly new experience. 2 И погибе Српски кнез Лазаре,И његова сва изгибе војска, Седамдесет и седам иљада;Све је свето и честито билоИ миломе Богу приступачно. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nepenthe Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 I agree with a lot of your points and find the ones I don't agree with well argumented, but The lows would be [...] level design (during missions), questionable minigames I think these were mostly fixed for 3, though replaced with side quests reminiscent of DA2 on a bad day (hand in the corpse for 3 gold, why not) and, well, an ending that can, even after all the patchwork, best be described as sticking up a middle finger to anyone who actually cared about the games (so sue me, I cared about them), or "questionable", if you will. 1 You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that? Reapercussions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGX-17 Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 (edited) Since this is about the ME trilogy (although you wouldn't know it by reading most of the posts) I think its fitting to stand back and look at what the ME series did right and what it did wrong. It was certainly a major success, financially and with the critics. I think its finest points are audio-visual design, world building and some of its characters. The second and (presumably, since I'm not going to play it) the third game had pretty good combat gameplay too, better than the first. The cinematic quality of 90ties SF shows was successfully recreated faithfully to the point that the game could be considered their equal (in both their good and bad points). The lows would be the convoluted and unoriginal storyline, level design (during missions), questionable minigames and lack of ability to customize the main character in terms of personality. Shepard exhibited too little growth as a result of the binary choices the game forces you to pick between. Overall the series could be called one of the high points of modern gaming although this praise is a two edged sword. While great strides have been made in the technical aspects of game design, a lot of the charm has been lost by excessive streamlining, railroading and fear of innovation in the weakest aspect of games in general - storytelling. As such, much effort is squandered in treading over familiar ground - and most of the games (ME series included) fail to sustain the initial great impression when its revealed that underneath all the shine there isn't a truly new experience. Narratively they didn't just drop the ball with ME2, they lost the original ball and had to buy a new one. Of lesser quality. The gameplay and companion characters were done well, but the shift of narrative focus from the Reapers to Cerberus was an obvious (and misguided,) attempt to buy time to actually think of a conclusion (all the alliance-building stuff you do in ME3 is what ME2 should have been about, ME3's plot revolves around a literal Deus Ex Machina that flies in the face of ME's established lore, and they don't even bother to explain or justify it in any way.) ME3's plot is so full of Shepard doing menial chores and unrelated tasks when the Reapers are currently Reaping the entire Galaxy that it's almost impossible to take seriously at times, especially with a DLC like Omega, which Bioware themselves had previously said wouldn't fit due to the urgency of the Reaper threat, yet here they are making it pre-endgame DLC. The races are a mixed bag. The Turians, Krogans, Salarians, Hanar and Elcor were all done well to some degree or another, the Asari and Volus are just dime-novel tripe. Asari are a juvenile fantasy for lonely virgins of the sort you saw in B-movies and pulp sci-fi novels in the 50s and 60s (albeit with the more liberal sexual standards of the new millennium applied,) and the Volus are literally Space Jews, in the worst sense of the word. The monoculturality of all the alien races is another glaring flaw, but excusable with a race like the Turians with their 100% mandatory military service. As is the new standard for Bioware, it's companion relationships (be they platonic or sexual,) that are done best. ME3's multiplayer aspect is surprisingly well done, and it makes me wish all the new content they're putting out for it were made available for the single player game. Edited November 9, 2012 by AGX-17 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greylord Posted November 10, 2012 Author Share Posted November 10, 2012 I thought the Volus were the Italian merchants!!!???? Or Americans. (That was as joke...)...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anubite Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 (edited) Here's what we thought BioWare did: During the pre-production of ME1, they created an overarching narrative that would span 3 games. They didn't flesh out the details for the next two games, obviously, but had a large plot schematic in mind. Here's what BioWare actually did: They threw together ME1's story on the seat of their pants, forgot they were going to make all these choices matter in the next two games, then forgot they were going to need to make adjustments for gameplay changes with the world they were creating in the first game, then realized that they didn't actually have any writers on the team and got some people from the programming team to help write during their lunch breaks. And then they started producing the second game, realized they couldn't deliver on any of the promises they had made originally. They were bought out by EA so they said the hell with it and just started writing stream-of-conscious style. Pooped out a script and handed it to the game devs to grinder into a game. Edited November 10, 2012 by anubite 1 I made a 2 hour rant video about dragon age 2. It's not the greatest... but if you want to watch it, here ya go: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cariannis Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Here's what we thought BioWare did: During the pre-production of ME1, they created an overarching narrative that would span 3 games. They didn't flesh out the details for the next two games, obviously, but had a large plot schematic in mind. Here's what BioWare actually did: They threw together ME1's story on the seat of their pants, forgot they were going to make all these choices matter in the next two games, then forgot they were going to need to make adjustments for gameplay changes with the world they were creating in the first game, then realized that they didn't actually have any writers on the team and got some people from the programming team to help write during their lunch breaks. And then they started producing the second game, realized they couldn't deliver on any of the promises they had made originally. They were bought out by EA so they said the hell with it and just started writing stream-of-conscious style. Pooped out a script and handed it to the game devs to grinder into a game. Cowboys.com is now a gay dating site…GreenBayPackers.com is something we shall never discuss again…EVER. Shakespeare said: Play to those who get it. Don’t dumb it down “to split the ears of the groundlings.” Groundlings: The lowest common denominator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anubite Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 (edited) I've seen that chart. It still doesn't explain the ME1-ME3 deal. I mean, the whole marketing ploy I thought - was that your choices would carry over. So it would stand to reason, you'd write a plot for 3 games, or at least have some idea what the next two games would be about. If BW can only re-use the same tropes, they could have just EXTENDED those same tropes over 3 games, instead of having it all contained in one game. Or you could have the same plot 3 times, with slightly different details to throw people off. But they didn't even do that. Edited November 10, 2012 by anubite I made a 2 hour rant video about dragon age 2. It's not the greatest... but if you want to watch it, here ya go: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greylord Posted November 10, 2012 Author Share Posted November 10, 2012 I felt that at least some of the things you did affected a few things in the next games. Though it may not impact the story as much as people wanted in ME3, there were items that occurred. For example, characters dying previously meant they normally weren't in the next game (of course there was some other character to fill in....). Wrex I thought had an impact on how the events on Tuchunka turned out and how you handled them in ME3, especially on whether he was alive or dead. Things of that nature. Sometimes it wasn't as drastic, such as what happens with the Geth and Tali, whether she's even around or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Why does this thread exist? I thought everybody hated Mass Effect after the ME3 ending fiasco. Nope I didn't hate the ME series, I wasn't even that disappointed with the ending because I am not an avid follower of the ME series like I am of Fantasy RPG. So for me I didn't have high expectations, I was entertained by the game and enjoyed it. Thats all I ask from any game "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nepenthe Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 I have similar feelings towards the me series as I have towards my ex, it has hurt me in a way I can never forgive, but I still have feelings towards it and the acceptance that I've spent some of the best times of my life with it. 1 You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that? Reapercussions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bos_hybrid Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 https://twitter.com/...612856517181440 We're in early stages of designing a completely new Mass Effect game. What would you want to see in it? Star children and colour coded endings please Mr Hudson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Mass Effect 4 in development at Bioware Montreal; using Frostbite 2 engine Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Slinky Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 https://twitter.com/...612856517181440 We're in early stages of designing a completely new Mass Effect game. What would you want to see in it? Star children and colour coded endings please Mr Hudson. I also would like more actions added to the awesome button. While it was irritating to get glued to wall when trying to run and running while trying to take cover, there is still room to make it even worse! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Mass Effect 4 in development at Bioware Montreal; using Frostbite 2 engine Hopefully, Miranda's ass will be even more high detail. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Mass Effect 4 in development at Bioware Montreal; using Frostbite 2 engine Hopefully, Miranda's ass will be even more high detail. Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofAnakin Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 So their Montreal studio is going to be working on ME4? Didn't the Edmonton (main) studio handle ME1 to ME3? "Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nepenthe Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 So their Montreal studio is going to be working on ME4? Didn't the Edmonton (main) studio handle ME1 to ME3? Yeah, Montreal did the final (somewhat disappointing) DLC for ME2, and was involved with ME3... I was under the impression that they did (just) the multiplayer, but I've been getting less sure about that the more I've read about the stuff. Mostly looks like they relegated the franchise into Madden land... You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that? Reapercussions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofAnakin Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 But despite the change in which studio is developing it, they had to keep Casey Hudson as executive producer. I think BioWare is actually enjoying giving the fans their fans the middle finger. "Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 (edited) Mass Effect 4 in development at Bioware Montreal; using Frostbite 2 engine Nice link, good news. I admire Bioware for trying to change there image. You can see that there is obviously a directive that they need people to identify with the Lead Designers on there various games , these types of open and honest introductions go a long towards fans seeing the "human element " of Bioware and not just a name on a box or a greedy company that just wants to make money Edited November 12, 2012 by BruceVC "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lobotomy42 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Sounds to me like the main studio is moving on to the "Next Big Thing" while the Montreal studio gets to takeover future ME iterations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orogun01 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 But despite the change in which studio is developing it, they had to keep Casey Hudson as executive producer. I think BioWare is actually enjoying giving the fans their fans the middle finger. Considering the support ME gets for gay romances I think fans enjoy sitting on it and spinning. 1 I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"* *If you can't tell, it's you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoonDing Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Main character should be Hanar for revolutionary tentacle romance scenes. The ending of the words is ALMSIVI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Sales in Japan skyrocket? <.< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 So... FAKE BIO is doing ME4? EPIC FAIL. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entrerix Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 my review of mass effect 1-3: if someone were to ask me: "is the mass effect trilogy worth playing?" i would say: "just play the second one, don't bother with part 1 or 3" Killing is kind of like playin' a basketball game. I am there. and the other player is there. and it's just the two of us. and I put the other player's body in my van. and I am the winner. - Nice Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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