Orcs - discussion

[sirchet]

Orcs hostile.

Like this one. In the game they will be far and isometric

 

 

 

What do you mean by "far and isometric"?

No offense meant, but I'm curious as to what I'm not understanding.

[AGX-17]

No, the less derivative of Tolkien this game is, the better.

 

 

I see this thread tagged "baberians," is that a new class of hair-trimming savages? They burst forth from the forests, shears and razors in hand, and cleave the rich beards of innocent dwarves until they are as well coiffed as Alexander himself?

Edited October 25, 2012 by AGX-17

[Fimbul]

Yes put'em all in! Orcs, dragons, fairies, hobbits and pokemons and don't ever dare try something new!

[Slaunyeh]

Yes put'em all in! Orcs, dragons, fairies, hobbits and pokemons and don't ever dare try something new!

 

Please try something new. But don't try something new and label it as something old and expect us to get the subtle differences without some really thorough documentation.

[Uszi]

Yeah not green orcs. Let's go straight Tolkein. I think all Orc characters should be cannibals obsessed with violence. I think they should be intelligent, but malicious, and if playable, even well intentioned Orc characters are never trusted or loved by the general populace.

 

The fighting Uruk-Hai are honestly my favorite part of LotR. Lurtz is the highlight of the first movie.

[nikolokolus]

It's bad enough that I have to put up with elves. No orcs please

[sirchet]

Orcs of all shapes and sizes, some big dark brutes and smaller cunning ones too!

Myself, I wouldn't be adverse to a few brand new types of bad guys, being that we have some of the most creative minds in the business writing this ... I bet they can pleasantly surprise us.

Edited October 28, 2012 by sirchet

[.Leif.]

Orcs need to be featured as a playable race. I would really like to make 'Nazgob the Nasty' my Orc Sorcerer in PE.

[Alexjh]

I'd rather not have orcs persay as they've been a bit done to death, but I'd be quite happy to have an equivalant race reputation and/or with a history of violence/brutishness but with a bit of a different flavour, tone and visual design to them.

[BetrayTheWorld]

I wouldn't mind, but since this is an original IP, if they -were- implemented, it might be under a different name, with different culture, and maybe not at all like what you're expecting.

 

However, name aside, I would certainly be interested in seeing a (perhaps recently liberated) slave race that is physically strong with a tribal culture.

[Agelastos]

I don't know. Maybe. As long as they're not green and pig-faced with enormous tusks. Damn Warhammer ruined the race.

Give me ugly, cannibalistic steppe/mountain barbarians with grey or sallow skin and a quasi-Mongolian material culture.

[HansKrSG]

I would like Obsidian to use something else than orcs as the "generic humanoid monster". I don't really want them at all.

[.Leif.]

How about making Orcs more like Orogs. Large, gray and cunning. They don't usually raid too far from their underground compounds for fear of being caught in the daylight. Contrary to common depictions of Orcs (Warcraft, Warhammer, LotR) they are far too wise to blindly throw themselves at enemy compounds. I think their (comparative) natural intelligence makes them the perfect choice for the noble savages of the Under-Relm. Their smithing skill would be widely respected among the beast-folk. I shudder at the thought of a horde of Orogs armed with Thunder-sticks. (Orogs, much like Orcs, probably love the Dakka). Someone has to keep the Drow, the Aboleths and the Flayers in check, right?

 

 

look at this badass

Let my PC be one of those ^

Edited November 16, 2012 by .Leif.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

I think there are way too many settings where orcs are noble savages. I'd rather go back to Tolkien, and have them as a corrupted slave race. (In my own homebrew setting, they were people kidnapped and repurposed by the not-quite-dark-elves-but-something-like-that cavedweller race; their agression magically repressed, and while in darkness, they got physically more powerful, but their muscles atrophied when light shone upon them. Thus, they are great for menial labor, but not gain a lot by fleeing to the surface).

[Agelastos]

I think there are way too many settings where orcs are noble savages. I'd rather go back to Tolkien, and have them as a corrupted slave race. (In my own homebrew setting, they were people kidnapped and repurposed by the not-quite-dark-elves-but-something-like-that cavedweller race; their agression magically repressed, and while in darkness, they got physically more powerful, but their muscles atrophied when light shone upon them. Thus, they are great for menial labor, but not gain a lot by fleeing to the surface).

 

This!

Realized about an hour ago that I had left that part out of my earlier post, but it was too late to edit it.

[Osvir]

@aliminumtrioxide:

Makes me think about beastial races, like in Final Fantasy Tactics how you could have Monsters in your party setup (Or Disgaea) that couldn't change Class throughout the game. Limited variability and Builds on Race Specific abilities. Easier to create for a Developer... Druid pet? :D

 

An equivalent to Orcs then... what is it about the Orc that is special and important as a Culture?

[obsidiansquid]

I too like the way TES handles orcs. Could essentially lead to interesting racial conflicts and racial dilemmas with other races that could be enlightening and meaningful.

 

[AGX-17]

I too like the way TES handles orcs. Could essentially lead to interesting racial conflicts and racial dilemmas with other races that could be enlightening and meaningful.

 

TES handles races in the most blatantly racist way possible and is not an example anyone should follow. It's still a mystery to me how nobody seriously calls them out on that **** in this day and age.

 

"Negro-err REDGUARDS are dark skinned people with broad noses that excel at physical activities and athletics but are beneath other races in intellect and wisdom! They are well suited to be athletes and manual laborers but poorly equipped for scholarly, academic pursuits and careers!"

 

Redguards are almost word for word a racist charicature of African Americans. All they did was take the shiftless and criminal aspects of the stereotype and apply it to the beast races, who are just an extension of that negative racial stereotyping.

 

There's nothing enlightened or meaningful about TES' racist undertones.

Edited November 18, 2012 by AGX-17

[sirchet]

Almost any game, book, phrase, or comment can be bent to be racially motivated and a means of hate if you look at it hard enough and twist things around until they fit into an ever so popular demand for exposing racial hatred.

 

Myself, I believe it's just a game and I don't read anything else into it to satisfy a need I might have to point out a wrong.

 

I would really like to see just one discussion where someone does not play the race card.

 

I would like the idea of an Orc type race and an elven race and to me no fantasy game is complete without dwarfs.

[obsidiansquid]

I too like the way TES handles orcs. Could essentially lead to interesting racial conflicts and racial dilemmas with other races that could be enlightening and meaningful.

 

TES handles races in the most blatantly racist way possible and is not an example anyone should follow. It's still a mystery to me how nobody seriously calls them out on that **** in this day and age.

 

"Negro-err REDGUARDS are dark skinned people with broad noses that excel at physical activities and athletics but are beneath other races in intellect and wisdom! They are well suited to be athletes and manual laborers but poorly equipped for scholarly, academic pursuits and careers!"

 

Redguards are almost word for word a racist charicature of African Americans. All they did was take the shiftless and criminal aspects of the stereotype and apply it to the beast races, who are just an extension of that negative racial stereotyping.

 

There's nothing enlightened or meaningful about TES' racist undertones.

 

I don't see it that way at all, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

[TMTVL]

If you want to play as a brutal, savage, evil race, just make a human character.

 

Aside from that, though having a monstrous race to play as would be great, though I think it's already been said that your character would get some extent of negative reactions from certain factions from the get go. So when it comes to race I already am a happy camper.

 

And don't make 'em noble savages with a shamanistic tribal whatever, that's just a cheap cop out and reference to the colonization of the Americas.

[OldRPG'sAreGood]

If orcs are shown as a savage and primitive race, I'd prefer if this would be because of lack of cultural advancment. While most races have sort of a renaissance, orcs would have bronze age or a bit later era going on. If they're shown as a primitive race that is.

 

But if orcs are at the same level as, say, humans, I would like to see them as a "shy" race, a race that shies away because of it's differences might be a cause to be harassed for. So this brings me to think about more magic and scholarship centered orcs, who tend to live in seclusion and work as private as possible.

 

And if orcs are said to be barbaric, it wouldn't necessarily have to mean as in fur clad primitive warrior. For example, greeks viewed persians as barbarians, so why couldn't a similar thing be applied to orcs(or any other "different" race). Also a persian culture vibe would be good for a orc race IMO, alongside with a mongolian culture model.

[Agelastos]

If orcs are shown as a savage and primitive race, I'd prefer if this would be because of lack of cultural advancment. While most races have sort of a renaissance, orcs would have bronze age or a bit later era going on. If they're shown as a primitive race that is.

 

Then there has to be a reason why their cultural (cultural is probably the wrong word here - a people doesn't have to be technologically advanced in order to have a complex and sophisticated culture) evolution has halted. Maybe they live in an isolated and unforgiving environment where the necessary resources for developing a civilized society are lacking. Easily harvested and highly nutritious grains, for instance. Or large beasts that can be domesticated and used as work animals. It's hard to develop past the Mesolithic stage without those things.

 

But if orcs are at the same level as, say, humans, I would like to see them as a "shy" race, a race that shies away because of it's differences might be a cause to be harassed for. So this brings me to think about more magic and scholarship centered orcs, who tend to live in seclusion and work as private as possible.

 

And if orcs are said to be barbaric, it wouldn't necessarily have to mean as in fur clad primitive warrior. For example, greeks viewed persians as barbarians, so why couldn't a similar thing be applied to orcs(or any other "different" race). Also a persian culture vibe would be good for a orc race IMO, alongside with a mongolian culture model.

 

The word "barbaros" referred to anyone who didn't speak the Greek language. It was probably onomatopoetic, an imitation of the incomprehensible babbling of non-Greek speaking peoples. The original definition of a barbarian is a person from a foreign culture. While it was used in a derogatory manner (since the Greeks, just like most other peoples, considered themselves to be superior to all others), it didn't have anything to do with being primitive or uncultured as we understand those words today. The meaning has changed, however, and I think it would just be confusing if P.E. was to use the ancient Greek definition of the word when referring to other cultures. Especially since there is a Class called Barbarian which is designed to be a brutal and "primitive" warrior.

Edited November 18, 2012 by Agelastos

[Jon of the Wired]

I've never been thrilled with the idea of evil humanoid races, so I'd rather they just leave out orcs, goblins, bugbears, et al. That being said, if they are included then I trust Obsidian to handle them in a more... sophisticated manner than is the norm.

[sirchet]

The qunari in Dragon Age were a good example of a foe you could respect and still slaughter on sight.