Update #16: Reward Updates, Combat with Tim, Mods, and the Mega Dungeon Grows!

[Arkeus]

An interesting interpretation. While that still ''sounds' over powered to me, I am sill limited by using the DnD spells as my primary frame of reference.

 

It's only overpowered if fighters are underpowered. Given that everyone uses 'magic' (soul power), it makes sense that fighters won't be so limited.

 

 

Depending on how quickly you regenerate mana (if at all) it could trivialize all of this spell reset stuff. Let's say you had a mana pool that allowed you to cast just 5-10 high level spells before being drained and that it needed 8 hours of sleep to be reset. That would actually be pretty similar to a BG2 sorcerer. That would be awesome actually. But what purpose would the by-level reset mechanic he describes serve in that case? If you had a large enough mana pool it might allow you to cast higher level spells in the cast-cooldown-cast pattern for a while until your mana ran out and then you really did have to leave the dungeon and rest. I suppose that's possible. Although it still wouldn't make me happy if there is so much mana that you could make it through an entire dungeon before having to rest and refill it. Obviously once you start adding in magic system elements that were not mentioned you quickly end up in a la la land of speculation.

 

The resting mechanic would be that in order to use higher-level spells, you not only need to have the necessary Soul-Power but also refine it into the grimoire. It could be logical that for a spell level you just got, you can't do it without hours of meditation.

 

What are you basing that on? Certainly nothing that Tim actually said in his update. He hasn't actually mentioned any grimoire spells that were too high level to be reset with the by-level reset mechanic. I do like your narrative interpretation of the by-level cooldown period as "charging your grimoire", although technically you'd only be charging that level of spells. Not the whole grimoire.

 

I am comnining both the text and dialog versions of the reddit answers (who are slightly different) so that there is both a cool-down and a "sometimes you need to rest" thing.

 

Of course, i might be wrong on the "sometimes you need to rest" thing, but given he did say something like "using a big-ass spell would mean not being able to use it for a while" i am hoping there is such a restriction.

Edited October 6, 2012 by Arkeus

[Wintersong]

The only solution is something thematic or something original.

If they are not added as race, then as pet: Wendersnaven! Imagine all the resources saved in its implementation and all the funny dialog when talking with other people about it.

[Demoss]

Pet wise, Raven or similar sized flying creature maybe from the setting, something that wouldn't help you naturally thus making sense it wont in game but sticks with you anyway.

Edited October 6, 2012 by Demoss

[metiman]

What do you mean by "refining" your mana into the grimoire? And let's leave naked logic out of this. It's not about what is logical. There have been lots of logical and interesting magic systems proposed on the forums. It's about what system they actually plan to use in the game.

[Monte Carlo]

Hey Metiman, I've written you a poem in your other thread.

[Ham Wizard]

Well it's a waste of resources and time for content only some people will access.

 

I'm against it on that reason too.

[Bloody Hypocrite]

I know you've probably heard enough from me at this point, but I'm assuming that wizards will still gain some non grimoire spells, which are still governed by level. The wizard will never run out of the most basic (level 0) spells, but will suffer a level wide cool down of their non G spells after a certain amount of use. The amount and selection I'm assuming are based off of how powerful the wizard is. The grimoire count is also based on the wizards level, but the spells contained within are single use only.

[Shevek]

My understanding about the Magic system is a bit different than the ones people seem to have:

 

*Spells that are much lower levels than your max level of spells do not need you to use a grimoire to cast, and as such they do not need rest nor cooldown to recharge. (though they still need soulpower).

*You 'charge' your grimoire, which means that each level of spells in the grimoire have a limited number of spells you can use before that level is drained. a Cooldown is then activated until the appropriate level of spells are charged with soulpower again.

*Higher levels of spells (compared to your wiard level) in the grimoir can't regenerate without rest (too complex for oyur current character to recharge on the fly).

*You can switch grimoire within a fight, which means transferring all the soulpower within a grimoire to the next grimoire. When doing so, it means 'switching' between two different sets of spells.

 

This is pretty much what iit sounded like to me. It is the 4E system modified somewhat. So encounter (recharge) and daily (no recharge until rest) powers. What powers fall under what depends on your level. I do not believe there will be at-will (spammaable) powers but we shall see.

 

I do not believe there will be "soulpower" or mana. Nothing in the video suggested that.

 

The grimoire probably refers to prepared spells. Swapping your spells results in a long cooldown. They should have left that for rest. Not sure.

 

I have watch that video again. A little confusing but generally sounds better than what I had hoped after they announced cooldowns.

Edited October 6, 2012 by Shevek

[metiman]

I know you've probably heard enough from me at this point, but I'm assuming that wizards will still gain some non grimoire spells, which are still governed by level. The wizard will never run out of the most basic (level 0) spells, but will suffer a level wide cool down of their non G spells after a certain amount of use. The amount and selection I'm assuming are based off of how powerful the wizard is. The grimoire count is also based on the wizards level, but the spells contained within are single use only.

 

But Tim actually said that there are only two kinds of mage spells: (1) low level and (or level 0 in your interpretation) and (2) Grimoire. He didn't actually mention anything about a third category.

[metiman]

My understanding about the Magic system is a bit different than the ones people seem to have:

 

*Spells that are much lower levels than your max level of spells do not need you to use a grimoire to cast, and as such they do not need rest nor cooldown to recharge. (though they still need soulpower).

*You 'charge' your grimoire, which means that each level of spells in the grimoire have a limited number of spells you can use before that level is drained. a Cooldown is then activated until the appropriate level of spells are charged with soulpower again.

*Higher levels of spells (compared to your wiard level) in the grimoir can't regenerate without rest (too complex for oyur current character to recharge on the fly).

*You can switch grimoire within a fight, which means transferring all the soulpower within a grimoire to the next grimoire. When doing so, it means 'switching' between two different sets of spells.

 

This is pretty much what iit sounded like to me. It is the 4E system modified somewhat. So encounter (recharge) and daily (no recharge until rest) powers. What powers fall under what depends on your level. I do not believe there will be at-will (spammaable) powers but we shall see.

 

I do not believe there will be "soulpower" or mana. Nothing in the video suggested that.

 

The grimoire probably refers to prepared spells. Swapping your spells results in a long cooldown. They should have left that for rest.

 

Now they just have to figure out how to control rest spam.

 

While that is an interesting interpretation he did not actually mention anything about the daily category in his update. Not saying it's impossible that it exists, but just because 4th Edition DnD has it doesn't mean Josh and Tim want it. Tim stated that he felt Wizards and Clerics were at a tactical disadvantage due to having to rest to use their abilities continuously. Fighters and thieves don't have to. So leaving out the daily spell category from 4th edition is not illogical.

[NerdBoner]

the.game.is.moddable!

 

UNF-UNF-UNF.....HNNNNNNGHH!!!!!!

 

 

now all i need is the cipher class and i will die in a disgusting pool of my own ecstatic juices!

[Bloody Hypocrite]

Tim mentioned two types of spells, "low" level and grimoires. But he aslo went on to describe what I feel were two seperate systems; the level based cool downs and grimoires. Again, I could be wrong, but the impression I got was that grimoires were supposed to be your most potent spells, that you wouldn't want to risk wasting. (I believe he says something to that effect) It doesn't make much sense to me that you would be worried about using them if they regen.

 

Once more, this is all up in the air. If they are planning on grimoire regen then we can tell them how much we think that it's a terrible idea. We know that they're going to include a bamf mode, with as many toggleable options a they can in normal. We're in primordial ooze stage here. This is the beauty of letting the devs talk to the players from the start.

[LadyCrimson]

It shouldn't be a dog, that's too common.

If it's not a dog, then we're entering familiar territory. People wanting different animals for different reasons. People will wants cats for sneaky characters, dragons for powerful characters, spiders for evil characters, etc.

 

The only solution is something thematic or something original. Like an unbound fractured soul. This little blue thing that floats around.

Having a little glowing ball that once might have been another living person following you around or something doesn't feel like a pet, tho. I'd rather have something like a funky little golem that you could say your character (or some mentor/parent of the character) created and animated as a child and it's been with you ever since. A sort of weird teddy bear.

 

Edit: or the mongoose. Yes, I think I'd even prefer the mongoose over a cat...

[Fluffle]

Wow, did I hear right?

An animated gelantinous cube named Kerfluffles as a pet? Sounds great :D

 

BTW @ Obsidian

As feedback: I'm fine with this pet, because it is vanity. However please understand that people are very very sensitive to this kind of concept because of what EA is doing with its games.

When you go this way, some people may fear you go some other ways as well that EA has gone... It's a thin line...

 

As you see even though it's a vanity pet, there are already some complaints.

[Shevek]

In the video he says, "When a wizard casts a low level spell, theres no limit on how many times he can cast that. He can just keep casting that over and over." He also says, "its the the high level spells that have a limit on how many times they can cast before the wizard will have to rest."He goes on to say that the player can choose whether or not to pull out the big guns depending on how combat is going.

 

He then goes on to speak on cooldowns. First he says, "There are not gonna be any individual spell cooldowns." Then he says, "Spells of particular levels may have a cooldown on spells of that level." He goes on to mention that many spells are in the wizards grimoire (but not all). Switching grimoires leads to cooldowns all being triggered.

 

So, put it all together.

 

1. The spammables are spells not in your grimoire. They are, as he stated, lower level spells. These could be at-will powers with no cooldown. We do not know at this point. but he does seem to suggest this.

 

2. The grimoire spells most likely have a cooldown and switching grimoires just triggers the cooldowns. This is obvious and clearly stated.

 

3. Lastly. some spells he states require rest. These are probably your highest level spells. They do not get recharged until, as he stated fairly clearly, you rest.

 

Sounds like at-will, encounter and daily powers to me.

Edited October 6, 2012 by Shevek

[NerdBoner]

I'm thinking the wizard will have something similar to the DnD warlocks arcane blast (which is just raw magic) as a base attack and anything more complex than that will require the different grimoires and thus need to be "recharged"...

 

 

so hopefully a "charge" based grimoire system with some cooldown mechanics when switching between grimoires.

[Shevek]

Wow, did I hear right?

An animated gelantinous cube named Kerfluffles as a pet? Sounds great :D

 

I dunno about you guys but I do not want a walking Jell-O cube as a pet. I would prefer either a hound or perhaps a hawk or something.

Edited October 6, 2012 by Shevek

[Mmiayiuckoi]

I'd like a scorpion pet please :S

[Shevek]

the.game.is.moddable!

 

UNF-UNF-UNF.....HNNNNNNGHH!!!!!!

 

 

now all i need is the cipher class and i will die in a disgusting pool of my own ecstatic juices!

 

Ya, even if they do not put in a bunch of mod tools, openning up the game files to us is huge. I would love to see this game make inroads with IE modders like the folks at Spellhold Studios and the Pocket Plane Group.

[DrGerm]

I might double my contribution for a Kerfluffles Gelatinous Cube for a pet !!!!!

Edited October 6, 2012 by DrGerm

[general_azure]

But if mighty Kerfluffles ends up as player pet, it will no longer be able to hunt down and devour those pesky paladin types

[Fluffle]

Okay this is the plan: Mighty Kerfluffles is the final boss of the mega dungeon. When you defeat it you can rip off a tiny part of it and animate it. From then on tiny Kerfluffles will be your loyal pet and follow you whereever you go.

[rjshae]

 

 

Hmmm... how many marshmallows indeed. Beware paladin-types... beware! Until next time...

 

I'd heard that dragons like paladins as well because they make the s'mores extra crunchy...

[NerdBoner]

 

 

Ya, even if they do not put in a bunch of mod tools, openning up the game files to us is huge. I would love to see this game make inroads with IE modders like the folks at Spellhold Studios and the Pocket Plane Group.

I can only imagine that after 12+ years of IE modding they are desperately seeking something new but similar to sink their fans into.

[metiman]

Yeah, but I don't think they've bothered to mod Dragon Age have they? That was the last so called "spiritual successor" to BG2.