Paladins and Bards

[Hiro Protagonist II]

except here where everyone can take power from souls for certain things. In this universe a bard could easily be a rogue who has learned to channel soul into music and spell instead of focusing on stealth powers.

 

By that logic, you only need one class. Everyone can be what they want by channeling into their soul.

Edited October 5, 2012 by Hiro Protagonist II

[Hypevosa]

except here where everyone can take power from souls for certain things. In this universe a bard could easily be a rogue who has learned to channel soul into music and spell instead of focusing on stealth powers.

 

By that logic, you only need one class. Everyone can be want they want by channeling into their soul.

 

Everyone starts as a level 1 commoner with no class. It's your choice what you eventually become - someone who falls under class archetype "rogue" (which the devs has stated is anyone who uses trickery/subterfuge, etc to get their way and what they want (sounds like bards to me)) could choose to follow music. I mean, if you can melt into shadows without using your soul as a crutch, would you not maybe find other things you could do with it?

[NOK222]

Couldn't a barbarian be a fighter?

 

Couldn't and elf be a human?

 

Couldn't a human be a dwarf?

 

Yes, yes and yes. Have you never role played an elf who is actually a human (race reassignment surgery) but thinks that he is dwarf?

 

What measure is human?

[Hiro Protagonist II]

Everyone starts as a level 1 commoner with no class. It's your choice what you eventually become - someone who falls under class archetype "rogue" (which the devs has stated is anyone who uses trickery/subterfuge, etc to get their way and what they want (sounds like bards to me)) could choose to follow music. I mean, if you can melt into shadows without using your soul as a crutch, would you not maybe find other things you could do with it?

 

I'd have to question what you know about Bards because trickery/subterfuge isn't what comes to mind with a Bard. Arcane Spells and songs is what comes to mind when mentioning Bards

[Ieo]

Couldn't a barbarian be a fighter?

 

Couldn't and elf be a human?

 

Couldn't a human be a dwarf?

 

Yes, yes and yes. Have you never role played an elf who is actually a human (race reassignment surgery) but thinks that he is dwarf?

 

What measure is human?

 

What can change the nature of a man?

 

 

 

(Sorry, couldn't resist.)

Also, given what Feargus said about there not being 'paladins' in PE, I'd expect there won't be "bards" but you will be able to specialize close to it somewhere--I just don't know where, since I never played a bard in BG/IWD.

[Osvir]

I think of Scandinavian Skalds when I hear the word "Bard", poets and musicians, Lady-Killers, charmers who can make any woman feint, trickerish, cowardice except when there's a fight that matters. Kind of sounds like a Rogue towards the end.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

I think of Scandinavian Skalds when I hear the word "Bard", poets and musicians, Lady-Killers, charmers who can make any woman feint, trickerish, cowardice except when there's a fight that matters. Kind of sounds like a Rogue towards the end.

 

I think of Bards as being able to do similar things like the other classes but have an extra ability with songs. Similar to a gimped Fighter/Mage/Thief and using musical instruments in battle. I wouldn't call a Fighter/Mage/Thief a rogue though.

[AlphaShard]

I think a lot of people under estimate what a Bard can do just because they are not masters of arms, magic and stealth. They can still be crafty spy's, diplomats, con men, etc.

[NOK222]

Harnessing the power of rock is no easy task. Modern Day warrior mean mean stride, today's tom sawyer mean mean stride.

 

Bard might be my secondary playthrough if they're included in a capacity.

[Wombat]

As for paladin class, I think battle priest build of priest class and/or multicasting priest class with fighter class will do. In the case of bard, while it has quite common with rogue, it would be interesting if there were a class which uses music to make use of soul powers.

[Hypevosa]

Everyone starts as a level 1 commoner with no class. It's your choice what you eventually become - someone who falls under class archetype "rogue" (which the devs has stated is anyone who uses trickery/subterfuge, etc to get their way and what they want (sounds like bards to me)) could choose to follow music. I mean, if you can melt into shadows without using your soul as a crutch, would you not maybe find other things you could do with it?

 

I'd have to question what you know about Bards because trickery/subterfuge isn't what comes to mind with a Bard. Arcane Spells and songs is what comes to mind when mentioning Bards

 

When I mention bards, I think about people who are good at sneaking around because a bar full of rowdy patrons is bad for breakable instruments, someone not opposed to lifting a few coins out of someone's pocket to pay for their room, someone who misleads would be attackers by bewildering them with a dance or song long enough for them to spot the fastest way out, and whose silver tongue can seduce even the most chaste of women. Someone for whom learning basic magic tricks adds to the performance and their ability to charm and bewilder. This is trickery and subterfuge. They fall under the archetype of the rogue for this game.

[DCParry]

Couldn't a Rogue be a Bard though? Seems to fit in the spectrum of it.

 

I don't see how. A Rogue is more Fighter oriented with stealth and sneak attacks, whereas the Bard is more on the Mage side of things with spells and songs. Bards have an arcane source similar to Mages.

 

 

According to whom? This isn't D&D. Rogues are basically a rename of an Expert class, a class that relies primarily on skills (as opposed to physical attacks or magical energies). As a class that is associated with knowledge, intrigue, spying, disguises and such, Bards fit the expert part of the class perfectly. The magical abilities that bards MAY possess are often part of an eclectic set of skills as opposed to serious study.

 

D&D is not the only bard archetype. Also, can't we be done with the MMO shooting lasers from my lute bard classes?

[Drakxii]

If there is good multi classing I don't think they are needed but if there isn't I would like to have at least Paladin. Love being the self righteous warrior with a heal.

[Jigawatts]

A Templar type of Paladin can be a subset of the cleric class

 

A Cavalier type of knight can be a subset of the fighter class

 

Bards can be a subset of the rogue class

 

There really is no need for an entirely new class

Barbarians can be a subset of fighter.

 

Druids can be a subset of priest.

 

Rangers can be a subset of fighter (or rogue).

 

Ciphers can be a subset of wizard.

 

 

I mean why do we need anymore than just the four base classes?

[Wombat]

If there is good multi classing I don't think they are needed but if there isn't I would like to have at least Paladin. Love being the self righteous warrior with a heal.

There was a discussion about hypothetical "atheist priest" at the update thread. And, considering the design direction of Obsidian, I began to think that they are going to design classes as just functions in game systems and try not to interfere with players views.

 

As for purely technique/knowledge-based classes, this won't be a problem but more or less faith-related classes such as druid, priest classes can be tricky. Sawyer and Obsidians have been boiling down their reputation system for a long time now, which could, I think, with a good writer team, make role-playing games more interesting. I don't know how NPCs react to your character when you play a "self-righteous" one but, I think they give a room for "idealist" characters.

 

For example, Kaelyn in Mask of the Betrayer began to question her god when the PC met her and has eventually gotten an independent believer of her own idealism. In a way, she was still idealist but dematerialized her belief. Also, while Obsidian allow the existence of guns in the setting, they forbid that of printing machines, which was eventually to lead the Reformation in Christian cultures (Sawyer's favorite novel is The Name of the Rose, too). While I think the setting may still have some loose ends, I think this can be a good compromise (hypothetically, of course - note that there are quite many guess works by my side).

 

Just in case, I'm not trying to make a discussion about real world religions but about what-if about the PE world, thinking of how the game-play/content relationship would be.

Edited October 5, 2012 by Wombat

[Jigawatts]

@curryinahurry - yeah I think everyone gets that I think we're really just pushing for them to be a 'supported 'subclass in game and so have some sort of in-game reactivity to the choice to play as one. At least that's been my interpretation of the comments, I don't think there would be too much complaining if this was how Obsidian chose to implement them.

Do they really need to have a "title" of their own? What if you can pick skills and feats/traits/whatever that can make your fighter do what a paladin does in traditional D&D?

 

I'm probably hoping for more character build customization options than a larger number of traditional classes.

I respectfully disagree good sir, give me fully fleshed out paladin and bard character classes, full of awesome bad guy smiting and musical buffing bells and whistles (respectively). The monk and cipher do absolutely nothing for me personally, but I know there are people out there looking forward to those classes, and I wouldnt take that away from them. My first ever BG character was a Paladin, who worshiped Helm...EVER VIGILANT!

[TrashMan]

Who ever even said it has to be the classical paladin copy? Paladin-like? Yes.

 

DAO Templars were kinda like that.

You can technicly have an Order that trains you..and if you do things the Order deems as unworthy (and cannot adequatly defend your action) you are kicked out.

 

So...couldn't you technically have a "paladin" by having a fighter who (assuming backgrounds are in) was raised/trained/joined an Order of Paladins in the society? This would give you a "paladin" without being a new class and one that they could build some reactivity to the character (quests, faction ratings based on how the order is perceived, etc.).

 

If it's an exclusive club and if joining comes with special abiltities and paladin-like powers. Yes.

 

If it's just a title? no.

[Vampero]

Boy do I ever love playing bard !

[dlux]

Boy do I ever love playing bard !

And I love to play Paladins. I am hoping that Obsidian will add them as a stretch goal, seeing that they are one of the more popular classes. Bards also make sense though too, Bards are pretty good buffers.

[AlphaShard]

Boy do I ever love playing bard !

And I love to play Paladins. I am hoping that Obsidian will add them as a stretch goal, seeing that they are one of the more popular classes. Bards also make sense though too, Bards are pretty good buffers.

 

I think Bards are good for more then just buffing, they have good role play and non-combat options as well.

[curryinahurry]

A Templar type of Paladin can be a subset of the cleric class

 

A Cavalier type of knight can be a subset of the fighter class

 

Bards can be a subset of the rogue class

 

There really is no need for an entirely new class

Barbarians can be a subset of fighter.

 

Druids can be a subset of priest.

 

Rangers can be a subset of fighter (or rogue).

 

Ciphers can be a subset of wizard.

 

 

I mean why do we need anymore than just the four base classes?

 

True on all except Ciphers which are more in the psionicist vein (maybe even them).

 

Personally, I wouldn't have more than the 4 basic classes and an extensive skill & feat system to customize. But that's me

[Amentep]

Couldn't a barbarian be a fighter?

 

Couldn't and elf be a human?

 

Couldn't a human be a dwarf?

 

Yes, yes and yes. Have you never role played an elf who is actually a human (race reassignment surgery) but thinks that he is dwarf?

 

I haven't but my brother played a gnome illusionist with multiple personalities so the character occasionally thought he was either an Orc Barbarian or an Elven Princess.

 

Of course I also remember early D&D where "Dwarf" and "Elf" were classes you took, too.

[Ashram]

I would like to see Paladins that represent a multitude of "alignments." For example you should be able to be a paladin of good god x or of neutral god y or even evil god z. Each with different abilties you could take and such.

 

 

Bard....all I say is MEH!

[curryinahurry]

I would like to see Paladins that represent a multitude of "alignments." For example you should be able to be a paladin of good god x or of neutral god y or even evil god z. Each with different abilties you could take and such.

 

 

Bard....all I say is MEH!

 

Bards are a blast to have in a party in IWD & IWD2

 

The alignment issue brings up an interesting consideration. Considering what we know about gods in the PE setting being meddlesome and manipulative and the lack of alignments, how would Paladins work? Would they just be zealots? Armored Monks? I'm also curious to know weather the cleric class will be dedicated to single deities or more of a sort whose soul has the particular capacity to commune with deities.

Edited October 5, 2012 by curryinahurry

[JediMB]

Couldn't a barbarian be a fighter?

 

Couldn't and elf be a human?

 

Couldn't a human be a dwarf?

 

Yes, yes and yes. Have you never role played an elf who is actually a human (race reassignment surgery) but thinks that he is dwarf?

 

What measure is human?

 

What can change the nature of a man?

 

What is a man? *throws wine glass*

 

...What, there's been an official statement on Paladins? *starts searching*