Paladins and Bards

[AlphaShard]

I want to start a topic to show support for Paladins and Bards to be added to the game. They are major staples of this Genre. I think it would be a shame not to have them in the game so I hope they are added to one of the stretch goals.

[nikolokolus]

I've nothing against them (I loved playing a paladin when I was in my early teens) but perhaps these archetypes don't fit into the P:E universe? On the other hand maybe they do and they will be stretch goals.

 

However, from the description of the base classes, it sure seems like Rogues cover enough ground for there to be minstrel vagabonds in the game as a character background, but sans the spell casting and special class powers from the D&D games. Likewise for Paladins, without an alignment system, but a faction reputation system, how do you write scripts that adjudicate "good" or "evil" behavior?

[AlphaShard]

It didn't stop Skyrim characters from talking about "good" and "evil" even though there was no alignment. However if we can custom a priest to wield swords and armor I think I will be fine. Though I will miss the type of quest lines Paladins tend to get.

[Bill Gates' Son]

I never really understood the concept of Paladins. I know there were suppose to be based on the medieval knight in shining armor, but in games many games, they usually come of as some weird hybrid of Clerics and Warriors, and yet Clerics still ended up being decent capable fighters with the right build. And in this game, I think the Priest in this game can fill the role of a holy knight.

 

However, if they do have Paladins, please don't restrict them to a single moral code...it just seems limited.

 

I always liked the theme of bards, but hopefully they won't simply be some mixture of a rogue and mage like in D&D.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Bill Gates' Son

[Humodour]

Paladins and Bards don't need to be in PE.

 

BUT. They are excellent character classes because they violate archetypes. They mix it up. I don't think they mixed it up enough (although the Blade in BG2 was one of the most powerful and fun classes, and the Bard with Mordenkainen's sword in IWD1 and 2 was epic), but they're important.

 

So I really hope that Obsidian adds some similarly unique classes in PE, aside from the 'base' classes, and aside from any multiclassing.

 

Obsid could even decide to violate archetypes (Fighter/Healer/Thief/Wizard) completely and only do 'mixed' classes like the Paladin, Bard, Druid. I think this way makes a LOT more sense.

 

For instance, consider the KOTOR classes. Fighter/Thief/Mage. Except they were super flexible because a) they all had spells, b) anybody could learn any skills, within reason, and c) all weapons were accessible to all classes. This is better than 3E D&D because all classes could use magic (the force).

[Merin]

If they fit the world that Obsidian is creating (and with clerics, druids, ciphers and rogues... I can't see why not) then I'd really like to see bards and especially paladins as well.

 

If they can squeeze out one more stretch goal, and they have the place in their story for it, I'd like to see these classes added.

[Tauron]

I think Paladin should be part of Cleric and Fighter tree? Simply becouse that is what it is. It could be Specialisation? .more of...sword or prayer. Depending what route you go to create your character.

[Jaesun]

I also was a bit disappointed on no Bards and Paladins (my 2 favorite classes). But they have the base classes as expected. It is possible they do not fit the setting, but if they can, I would love to see them.

[DCParry]

See, it sounded like Paladins would be part of the priest class and Bards the rogue, at least to me.

 

They specifically mention diplomats in the rogue description. It seems that the class system is divided along some sort soul mechanic lines, so fighters focus their soul power on enhancing their physical attributes, priests with a direct line to their deity, and so on. As such, it seems Paladins, as envisioned as a holy warrior, would fit into the priest class. The bard might be a bit trickier.

[Ieo]

Bards might work depending on what "flexible specialization" is allowed in whatever parent class, but paladins I think are unnecessary and don't fit the PE world--isn't the primary feature alignment? But there is no alignment in PE.

 

Paladins should fall under the "priest" umbrella since both have to do with a faith in a god.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

I posted this earlier on the stretch goal feedback.

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60864-stretch-goals-and-backer-rewards-what-do-you-think/page__st__140?do=findComment&comment=1222641

 

New Stretch Goal for 2 additional classes and companion:

 

- Paladin / Knight

- Bard

- Companion

 

[elenuial]

I could be reading too much into things, but it looks like they're approaching classes in a similar way to D&D 4E, by looking at what they do mechanically on the battlefield rather than by flavor/concept. So while Fighter often means "Dude with sword" they might mean it as "Tank/Meat shield." Even if they're not doing that 100%, they're at least definitely considering the roles the classes will play mechanically as much as the conceptual role.

 

Personally, I would love it if they just focused classes entirely on combat mechanics and had a separate set of traits or customizable attributes for flavor stuff that only interacts weakly with combat role. For example, picking "Rogue" got you the glass cannon role in combat, as expected, but you could choose whether that took the form of "Sneaky dude with daggers" or "Big guy with giant sword" or "Wizard who focuses on the Burning Hands spell VERY effectively," etc.

[Hypevosa]

If they make clerics fully capable combatants, but just less so than fighters, there's no need for paladins.

 

My first D&D character is a paladin, my name is actually the one I gave him - but I don't need to see them here if clerics basically fill that role.

[nikolokolus]

Personally I think Paladins should be included ... but not as a base class, but rather as a title for joining a particular order and proving yourself worthy through deeds in the game.

[Hypevosa]

Personally I think Paladins should be included ... but not as a base class, but rather as a title for joining a particular order and proving yourself worthy through deeds in the game.

 

One of the orders of more melee specialized clerics perhaps?

[Ieo]

If they make clerics fully capable combatants, but just less so than fighters, there's no need for paladins.

 

My first D&D character is a paladin, my name is actually the one I gave him - but I don't need to see them here if clerics basically fill that role.

 

Considering--

If you want to create a wizard who wears plate armor and hacks away with a broadsword from behind a heavily-enhanced arcane veil, we want to let you do that. If your idea of the perfect fighter is one who wears light armor and uses a variety of dazzling rapier attacks in rapid succession, we want to help you make that character. So it's good to think of Project Eternity's classes as being purpose-ready but not purpose-limited.

and

Most priests are church-educated and are widely versed in many types of lore. However, some priests get by on pure faith alone, having little knowledge of the world around them. Such battle priests often lean more heavily on their athletic abilities when they are in the field.

--I fully expect Obsidian to allow us to heavily specialize across a broad spectrum in any given parent class. So, a more fighter-y cleric?

 

Personally I think Paladins should be included ... but not as a base class, but rather as a title for joining a particular order and proving yourself worthy through deeds in the game.

 

This I can get behind. The term was historically titular, I think, anyway.

[Jigawatts]

Thank you for making this thread, I made a comment on the kickstarter update about Paladins and Bards, and would have made a thread if you hadn't. Personally I think these should be implemented before the Barbarian and Cipher(Psionisist), they are D&D and IE game staples and need representation.

[Shardbearer]

I feel like a bard can be a subspeciality of rogue, and a paladin could be a heavy armor/heavy weapon specialty of cleric or cleric/warrior. Though I do like the idea of gaining the title/attribute of Paladin throughout the game. Its very DA:O to have to acquire the subspecialities, possibly through training and/or gaining the trust/membership of a faction.

[Hypevosa]

Paladin with priests potentially focusing alot on combat is unnecessary, but unless rogues can learn an instrument and essentially become a bard, I do agree they need representation.

[Shardbearer]

Paladin with priests potentially focusing alot on combat is unnecessary, but unless rogues can learn an instrument and essentially become a bard, I do agree they need representation.

 

I so want to be able to train my rogue in the lute now.

[Hypevosa]

"I swear to god I hear a lute playing in that corner, but I'll be damned if I see anything there!" O.O

[LordCrash]

A paladin is NOT a priest or cleric, not at all. They might share a comparable gameplay but contentswise they are very different. Or would you say that a druid is the same as a cleric because they share common spells (in D&D at least)? I wouldn't say so. Playing RPGs is as much about imagination as it is about gameplay.

 

*wimp mode on* So I won't raise my pledge any more until there is confimation that you can play as paladin (at least as a serious sub-class of the fighter class)! */wimp mode off*

[Wintersong]

I want to start a topic to show support for Paladins and Bards to be added to the game. They are major staples of this Genre. I think it would be a shame not to have them in the game so I hope they are added to one of the stretch goals.

I love psionic classes but they are always treated as second class in D&D. So I do know the feeling of being left in the corner. Luckyl for me, fighter and rogue are a core class in D&D which means that at least I can play other classes that I like.

 

I was surprised about not having the Paladin class. Fighter, rogue, wizard and priest(cleric)? Yeah, staple basic stereotypes. Ranger and Druid? Yeah, makes sense. Monk? Er... I do like Monks but actually surprised that the made the cut instead of Paladins. And even if Paladins were to be offered as stretch goal: 1) even Barbarians are more "core", 2) would people raise the total pledge to $2,800,000+ just for Paladins?

 

I know that a melee oriented Priest is not the same as a Paladin, but it's closer than a FIghter without any kind of Faith powers. And don't come to me with the "They are not the same". I'm stupid but not that stupid. I know they are not the same. But a regular mundane fighter could behave like a Paladin while not having any kind of divine power. Altough in PE, he would have soul powers/perks/feats. Paladin is something more than "Divine warriors" but a way of life. The exact details, like Holy Avengers, are not that important as the motivation.

 

Bards? I have very fond memories of my PnP half-elf bard but I don't really see the huge appeal for the class. Remember Grobnar in Neverwinter Nights 2? I like the character but as a class... meh. Not that some of his buffs weren't awesome and in PnP, Inspire Courage builds can be abused to epic awesomeness from what I have read. But Grobnar wouldn't just fit in my party.

 

But the more the merrier. I'll, hopefully, get a psionic class so once that is in and considerig that Druid is in too, they can add whatever they want.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Wintersong

[cyberarmy]

Well a heavy melee focused priest can be count as paladin in PE it seems. (after the new update) And that Cadegun lady already looking like a warrior inquisitor with her rifle&armor&relic already.

 

And maybe we can make a rogue or mage bardlike maybe, using party wide buffs, investing in lore and knowladge and using crossbows. Also we can use spells in chain mail here!

 

I cant really think another main class archatype to add here and if we have got something like "prestige" classes we can cover hybrid classes.

[Wolfenbarg]

If there are Paladins, I think they should be a faction, not a class. They serve more of an ideal, so having a rigid class seems pretty unnecessary.