[Merged] Cooldown Thread

[Ieo]

I like that guy.

 

Brevity is the soul of bitchslap.

[J.E. Sawyer]

A CRPG without rest is not a true RPG. Period.

Then you will like our CRPG, Project Eternity, which has resting.

[metiman]

Oh yeah. I forgot that Tim said that. Well that's one less thing to worry about at least.

[ogrezilla]

I really like this guy.

Edited October 2, 2012 by ogrezilla

[ogrezilla]

Oh yeah. I forgot that Tim said that. Well that's one less thing to worry about at least.

I had forgotten he said it too. I hadn't really thought about it until you brought it up, but I was sort of worried for that minute in there too

Edited October 2, 2012 by ogrezilla

[mindx2]

Not a fan of cooldowns at all! There are so many other ways to implement vanacian magic with restricted resting. They could have let resting occur anywhere on an easy setting and limit it on harder settings Make certain areas No-resting, have ranger skills to allow resting in certain enviroments, etc. This just seems like a modern Big Boy publisher "streamlining" move to me. Just feels like a lazy and easy way out. Hope whatever you guys have planned is better than ANY cooldown system I've seen. This news really is a downer.

Edited October 2, 2012 by mindx2

[Wirdjos]

I like that guy.

 

He seems to like you too. How many times has he quoted you now?

[andreisiadi]

Mimicking - Why do we need to mimic ?

Rest - easier ways to fix, see KOTC

Strategically choose spells - you mean all spells available at all time, with a minor cooldown for switching suites in the middle of combat

bla bla bla - you mean game will be extremely easy and I'll have to play the hardcore mode like in F:NV just so I don't fall asleep.

meta-gaming through reloading is not strategy - you mean the game will be so easy you will never have to reload and all spells available at al times and in every battle.

 

Classic Infinity engine game indeed.

 

Do you people actually fall for the market speech ?

[metiman]

Who or what are you replying to?

[Hypevosa]

my expectations (largely speculation based on their comments) is that within the time of a single encounter, the system they create will play almost exactly like the old IE games. I think it will be the method of recovering your spells outside of combat that will differ.

Pretty much.

 

 

A CRPG without rest is not a true RPG. Period.

Then you will like our CRPG, Project Eternity, which has resting.

 

So it's essentially just cooldown timers which are longer depending on spell strength, and go down outside of battle rather than in it?

 

also, thanks for jumping in, it's nice when developers see a concern such as this and will come in to quell the fears.

[Jandor]

Just put the cooldowns at the start of the spell, "warm-ups" if you will. You're mage stands in place casting the spell for 10, 20, however many seconds, while it is casting it is draining mana (or whatever) and it can be interupted via damage.

 

You could also have it so before combat; possibly while resting, you can select a number of spells to 'pre-cast' so they can be instantly fired off. The amount of spells you can have ready to go straight away is dependent on how many points you put into that skill and the level of the spell prepared.

Do you set-up high some high damage spells so you can get your party out of trouble quickly? Or maybe have him prepare a magic shield instead so he can protect himself when he starts casting a big spell?

 

There you go, preperation before combat is a massive help, but if you prepared the "wrong" spells you're not instantly screwed.

Edited October 2, 2012 by Jandor

[ImNotCreative]

@Shevek

 

If you take this post in to consideration:

 

I think it's possible to still make prep meaningful by allowing the player to switch between pre-built (by the player) suites of spells at a frequency that is less than "per rest". I.e. if the player can only use a subset of spells at any given time, but can switch between those subsets with a time penalty (or only outside of combat), that still makes the choices important without the system strictly being Vancian.

 

I think that you won't have to rest in order to switch your spells (although there would be other limitations) but you could use rest to reset cool-downs, replenish mana or whatever they use.

 

Edit: Well apparently while I was searching for a post to quote Sawyer posted about resting which makes this completely useless, please ignore.

Edited October 2, 2012 by ImNotCreative

[ogrezilla]

I like that guy.

 

He seems to like you too. How many times has he quoted you now?

two or three. I must somehow be one of the only people who interpreted his comments the way he meant them. I'll chalk it up to dumb luck.

Edited October 2, 2012 by ogrezilla

[dlux]

my expectations (largely speculation based on their comments) is that within the time of a single encounter, the system they create will play almost exactly like the old IE games. I think it will be the method of recovering your spells outside of combat that will differ.

Pretty much.

Good. At least the stupid sleep spamming is gone.

 

I always thought it was a ridiculous mechanic.

[Gfted1]

So it's essentially just cooldown timers which are longer depending on spell strength, and go down outside of battle rather than in it?

 

Wait, isnt that what weve been discussing this whole time? Were people worried about cooldowns within a single encounter? I want to know what happens between encounters to replenish abilities.

[ogrezilla]

Mimicking - Why do we need to mimic ?

Rest - easier ways to fix, see KOTC

Strategically choose spells - you mean all spells available at all time, with a minor cooldown for switching suites in the middle of combat

bla bla bla - you mean game will be extremely easy and I'll have to play the hardcore mode like in F:NV just so I don't fall asleep.

meta-gaming through reloading is not strategy - you mean the game will be so easy you will never have to reload and all spells available at al times and in every battle.

 

Classic Infinity engine game indeed.

 

Do you people actually fall for the market speech ?

so you are just making things up here? That's a pretty solid argument technique if people don't call you on it I guess.

[Gfted1]

my expectations (largely speculation based on their comments) is that within the time of a single encounter, the system they create will play almost exactly like the old IE games. I think it will be the method of recovering your spells outside of combat that will differ.

Pretty much.

Good. At least the stupid sleep spamming is gone.

 

I always thought it was a ridiculous mechanic.

 

I just hope the game utilizes a checkpoint save mechanic. Its stupid to let people save wherever they want.

[ogrezilla]

So it's essentially just cooldown timers which are longer depending on spell strength, and go down outside of battle rather than in it?

 

Wait, isnt that what weve been discussing this whole time? Were people worried about cooldowns within a single encounter? I want to know what happens between encounters to replenish abilities.

my guess from his comment that resting still exists is that there will be cooldowns (relatively long) as well as more limited resting that will finish cooldowns and do whatever else resting does. So while you are doing stuff, some spells will come back eventually. But by allowing some resting you can get rid of the need to just wait around waiting for spells to come back.

Edited October 2, 2012 by ogrezilla

[Hypevosa]

So it's essentially just cooldown timers which are longer depending on spell strength, and go down outside of battle rather than in it?

 

Wait, isnt that what weve been discussing this whole time? Were people worried about cooldowns within a single encounter? I want to know what happens between encounters to replenish abilities.

 

I thought that's where all the fear was coming from... or at least that seemed to be the only place fear made sense.

 

People don't want cooldowns that happen in combat because that means casters have weak spells since being able to do things like cast fireball 5 times every encounter or magic missle 20 times would be crazy broken.

[ogrezilla]

my expectations (largely speculation based on their comments) is that within the time of a single encounter, the system they create will play almost exactly like the old IE games. I think it will be the method of recovering your spells outside of combat that will differ.

Pretty much.

Good. At least the stupid sleep spamming is gone.

 

I always thought it was a ridiculous mechanic.

 

I just hope the game utilizes a checkpoint save mechanic. Its stupid to let people save wherever they want.

I actually agree but I doubt it happens.

[MReed]

I think that you won't have to rest in order to switch your spells (although there would be other limitations) but you could use rest to reset cool-downs, replenish mana or whatever they use.

 

If this is correct, then I'm a happy camper -- however, I don't think this is the case.

 

Rather, I expect that resting (whatever other mechanical purposes it may serve) won't reset cooldowns, which are only reset via the passage of real time. Why do I think this? Because if resting resets the cooldowns, then the game system is functionally equivalent to a Vancian system. We've already been told that cooldowns aren't going to clear / reset during combat, so short cooldowns are out, and we've been told that some sort of spell preparation system is in (but likely not bound to resting), and we know that Vancian style magic is out, so... What other possible role could cooldowns serve?

[Hypevosa]

my expectations (largely speculation based on their comments) is that within the time of a single encounter, the system they create will play almost exactly like the old IE games. I think it will be the method of recovering your spells outside of combat that will differ.

Pretty much.

Good. At least the stupid sleep spamming is gone.

 

I always thought it was a ridiculous mechanic.

 

I just hope the game utilizes a checkpoint save mechanic. Its stupid to let people save wherever they want.

I actually agree but I doubt it happens.

 

As long as there's always a way to save and leave to do something else, like eat, regardless of when you do it, that's all that matters. Forcing me to restart a whole dungeon because I had to go have dinner instead of letting me save my progress to come back to it is just cruel.

[Shevek]

I want to reiterate my thanks to the devs for continuing to have such an open dialogue with us fans. I for one am very excited to peer behind the curtain, as it were, even if I don't always agree with what I see.

 

Also, yay for resting being in btw. I am curious to see how they will implement it.

[Ieo]

my expectations (largely speculation based on their comments) is that within the time of a single encounter, the system they create will play almost exactly like the old IE games. I think it will be the method of recovering your spells outside of combat that will differ.

Pretty much.

Good. At least the stupid sleep spamming is gone.

 

I always thought it was a ridiculous mechanic.

 

I just hope the game utilizes a checkpoint save mechanic. Its stupid to let people save wherever they want.

 

You mean like the autosave in BG/etc.? I liked that. There were three save types--given that Obsidian is controlling save functionality with at least one of the difficulty tiers (uh, something Iron something), it really can't be hard to just rely on the autosave somewhere.

[andreisiadi]

Edit: wrong quote

 

Anyway ogrezilla said I was making up bull****.

 

Then call me on it. Prove me wrong with arguments.

Edited October 2, 2012 by andreisiadi