[Merged] Cooldown Thread

[Infinitron]

Here is something I would like to hear opinions on. Take the following circumstance, which is not uncommon in the IE games and would be somewhat similar to the KotC "campsite" system in circumstances were you are not locked off from backtracking to a campsite.

 

* You are in a location where resting is either prohibited or extraordinarily likely to result in an encounter. You do not know the location of the next campsite/safe resting area.

* You have cast many of your spells and the ones that remain are not entirely appropriate for the encounters you are now facing.

* Because you came from an area where you could rest and are not locked in the location, you have a cleared (by you) path back to the area where you can safely rest.

* It will take you three minutes of real time to walk back to the camp, maybe thirty seconds to reconfigure spells, five seconds to rest, and another three minutes of real time to walk back to where you had left off.

* Because you killed everything between you and the campsite, there are no threats between you and the campsite.

 

In this circumstance, what is good about the experience of walking back to the campsite?

 

First of all, let me clarify that I'm not entirely averse to removing the "walk out of the dungeon to rest" experience from the game, but I'll defend it nonetheless.

 

Basically, the answer is atmosphere. That sense that we are excavating deep down into a godforsaken hellhole, and it's so horrible down there that we need to come out for rest and supplies, is a powerful one.

 

I would add that if you are returning back to a town to rest, then the walk-out serves as a good excuse to buy new equipment, sell loot and perhaps discover new quests (if the game designers chose to add any to the game, perhaps for that specific purpose).

 

For example, when cleaning out, say, Dragon's Eye in Icewind Dale, you might need to go back to Kuldahar for "resting and refueling" before you manage to finally reach the bottom and slay Yxunomei. It would have been nice to have some new subquests waiting for you in Kuldahar to fill up that downtime.

Edited October 2, 2012 by Infinitron

[MReed]

I'm not entirely sure that Obsidian's path to eliminate in-game rest spamming by the characters is to encourage outside-of-game rest spamming by the player. I think the goal of eliminating rest spamming would be to create a system in which the players would feel no need to rest after every encounter?

 

I really hope not, because that would be truly silly. Right?

 

But some players will not or can not (due to player inability, poorly equipped characters, laziness, whatever) be able to complete the expected number of encounters that the cooldowns are "tuned" for. If those players can rest (or wait, or whatever) then they can continue playing and enjoy the game. This even applies if it is as inconvenient as spending 10 minutes navigating through safe maps to get back to the camp site -- at least they are doing something with the game, even if it isn't very fun. However, if the only alternative for these players is to twiddle their thumbs (for 10 minutes, 30 minutes, 8 hours, whatever) until the game says "OK, you've convinced me that you really want your cooldowns reset -- you can resume playing the game now..."

 

Well, I think that's an even worse gameplay experience than tracking back to the camp, don't you?

[andreisiadi]

Here is something I would like to hear opinions on. Take the following circumstance, which is not uncommon in the IE games and would be somewhat similar to the KotC "campsite" system in circumstances were you are not locked off from backtracking to a campsite.

 

* You are in a location where resting is either prohibited or extraordinarily likely to result in an encounter. You do not know the location of the next campsite/safe resting area.

* You have cast many of your spells and the ones that remain are not entirely appropriate for the encounters you are now facing.

* Because you came from an area where you could rest and are not locked in the location, you have a cleared (by you) path back to the area where you can safely rest.

* It will take you three minutes of real time to walk back to the camp, maybe thirty seconds to reconfigure spells, five seconds to rest, and another three minutes of real time to walk back to where you had left off.

* Because you killed everything between you and the campsite, there are no threats between you and the campsite.

 

In this circumstance, what is good about the experience of walking back to the campsite?

 

A smart player would not find himself in that position. Why should we make the game easier so that unskilled players will not find themselves in that position. Meanwhile I have to say thank you for hardcore mode. How about the unskilled players say thank you for the easy mode and I get to play a game that actually punishes you for being bad at it.

[Hypevosa]

I'm not entirely sure that Obsidian's path to eliminate in-game rest spamming by the characters is to encourage outside-of-game rest spamming by the player. I think the goal of eliminating rest spamming would be to create a system in which the players would feel no need to rest after every encounter?

 

I really hope not, because that would be truly silly. Right?

 

But some players will not or can not (due to player inability, poorly equipped characters, laziness, whatever) be able to complete the expected number of encounters that the cooldowns are "tuned" for. If those players can rest (or wait, or whatever) then they can continue playing and enjoy the game. This even applies if it is as inconvenient as spending 10 minutes navigating through safe maps to get back to the camp site -- at least they are doing something with the game, even if it isn't very fun. However, if the only alternative for these players is to twiddle their thumbs (for 10 minutes, 30 minutes, 8 hours, whatever) until the game says "OK, you've convinced me that you really want your cooldowns reset -- you can resume playing the game now..."

 

Well, I think that's an even worse gameplay experience than tracking back to the camp, don't you?

 

I think the player needs to learn to use magic and their other characters better. A player who is spamming every encounter with all their magic deserves to have to wait for it to come back, as opposed to the one who learns how to place spells effectively, hit enemies with spells that need to be hit with them, and make best use of their entire party rather than just relying on their magic user.

[Jaesun]

Here is something I would like to hear opinions on. Take the following circumstance, which is not uncommon in the IE games and would be somewhat similar to the KotC "campsite" system in circumstances were you are not locked off from backtracking to a campsite.

 

* You are in a location where resting is either prohibited or extraordinarily likely to result in an encounter. You do not know the location of the next campsite/safe resting area.

* You have cast many of your spells and the ones that remain are not entirely appropriate for the encounters you are now facing.

* Because you came from an area where you could rest and are not locked in the location, you have a cleared (by you) path back to the area where you can safely rest.

* It will take you three minutes of real time to walk back to the camp, maybe thirty seconds to reconfigure spells, five seconds to rest, and another three minutes of real time to walk back to where you had left off.

* Because you killed everything between you and the campsite, there are no threats between you and the campsite.

 

In this circumstance, what is good about the experience of walking back to the campsite?

 

I would have planned more carefully (conserving spells), to avoid such a situation.

[ogrezilla]

My preference for that situation are on opposite ends of the spectrum.

 

1. I made it so far into this cave and got stuck. Well, make me reload and manage my resources better next time. This is where the save system needs to be sure not to allow people to get themselves completely stuck. This design requires strategy to deal with the issue.

2. Let me rest or speed up time or whatever so I can keep going without wasting time walking back to the camp site.

 

The middle ground between 1 and 2 would be where I can freely rest and recover whenever I want, but I have to waste 6 minutes walking back and forth to do it. Standing still for those 6 minutes really isn't any better though. Both of those are just option 2 but with extra tedium. Either replace tedium with real difficulty or with convenience.

 

basically, if resources are going to be limited, there needs to be real consequence other than tedium to replenish them. If a real consequence (you failed, reload and try again in my example but I'm sure there are others you could use) isn't going to happen, I would rather just have a convenient method of replenishing my resources. Tedium is my least favorite thing in games.

Edited October 2, 2012 by ogrezilla

[Karranthain]

And what if :

 

* You have cast many of your spells and the ones that are off cooldown are not entirely appropriate for the encounters you are now facing.

* It will take you three minutes of real time to wait for those spells to be available again.

 

It could be pointed out that, of course, the cooldowns could be lowered considerably to avoid such situatations, but that'd make them absolutely trivial.

[Hypevosa]

Here is something I would like to hear opinions on. Take the following circumstance, which is not uncommon in the IE games and would be somewhat similar to the KotC "campsite" system in circumstances were you are not locked off from backtracking to a campsite.

 

* You are in a location where resting is either prohibited or extraordinarily likely to result in an encounter. You do not know the location of the next campsite/safe resting area.

* You have cast many of your spells and the ones that remain are not entirely appropriate for the encounters you are now facing.

* Because you came from an area where you could rest and are not locked in the location, you have a cleared (by you) path back to the area where you can safely rest.

* It will take you three minutes of real time to walk back to the camp, maybe thirty seconds to reconfigure spells, five seconds to rest, and another three minutes of real time to walk back to where you had left off.

* Because you killed everything between you and the campsite, there are no threats between you and the campsite.

 

In this circumstance, what is good about the experience of walking back to the campsite?

 

I would have planned more carefully (conserving spells), to avoid such a situation.

 

how are you planning for something you've not yet seen? Unless you're reloading a save, there's no possible way you can plan well enough unless you also carry around enough divination spells to see every encounter on the map before it happens.

[Jasede]

I don't think you should be able to replenish spells at all. I long for an RPG where resting would make the sentient monsters amass a force, place fresh traps and plant some ambushes- or try to poison you in your sleep because you were dumb enough to rest in the middle of a half-populated orc fortress. Ideally, losing 8 hours would also make you lose certain time critical quests. And even better, maybe the game could have a time limit of 100 days. Then you'll really have to make some hard choices. I love games where you can end up in dead ends because you squandered your time.

 

Let me dream.

 

Edit: Not everything in a video game is meant to be beaten on your first try. So you brought the wrong spells? Well, that's too bad. Reload. Where would the satisfaction in bringing the right spells be if there wasn't a punishment for bringing the wrong ones?

Edited October 2, 2012 by Jasede

[Hamanu]

I would much prefer a system where the cooldowns are moved prior to the casting of the spell. AKA a warm up or charge up period.

 

This serves several purposes;

 

-It limits the frequency with which a mage can cast certain spells, the same purpose that cooldown timers serve.

 

-It allows for more gameplay mechanics, such as Concentration. Spells with warm ups could have a casting difficulty rating that is independent of the warm up time, making them more or less difficult to cast, and of course easier to interrupt. Mages could have skills that reduce the difficulty of casting spells, or certain types of spells from a specialised school. Or even just certain spells that they cast a lot. There could be skills or perks to allow casting on the move, or at high levels multicasting simple spells.

 

-It's more tactically interesting; as it makes the player think about positioning and defensibility for both the casting mage and the party. The Mage will be vulnerable while concentrating on casting and will need to be protected during this time.

 

-It's more lore friendly. It makes a lot of sense that someone summoning a rain of meteors or a ice tornado would be too busy focusing on what he's doing to do much else for the duration. Of course with practice it becomes easier, and some people might even have the knack of being able to defend themselves or run while casting.

 

There's no need to have a cooldown period after a warm up period, as the purpose of limiting the ability of the mage to spam spells is already accomplished using the resources of both time and tactical opportunity, as opposed to simple time in the case of a cooldown.

[Amentep]

2 - more seriously, it rewards careful play and planning, and time can be viewed as just another form of resource management. This is akin to having inventory or weight limits, and the choice of balancing walking back to shop, dropping possibly valuable items, and player time.

 

Weight limits usually involve I keep this OR I keep this. Or "Do I keep going knowing I'll have to forgo some equipment or travel back and sell equipment now"

 

In the scenario described, there doesn't seem to be an option for the player; its cake or death.

 

I really hope not, because that would be truly silly. Right?

 

But some players will not or can not (due to player inability, poorly equipped characters, laziness, whatever) be able to complete the expected number of encounters that the cooldowns are "tuned" for. If those players can rest (or wait, or whatever) then they can continue playing and enjoy the game. This even applies if it is as inconvenient as spending 10 minutes navigating through safe maps to get back to the camp site -- at least they are doing something with the game, even if it isn't very fun. However, if the only alternative for these players is to twiddle their thumbs (for 10 minutes, 30 minutes, 8 hours, whatever) until the game says "OK, you've convinced me that you really want your cooldowns reset -- you can resume playing the game now..."

 

Well, I think that's an even worse gameplay experience than tracking back to the camp, don't you?

 

I'd think the goal wasn't for the player to feel like they have to twiddle their thumbs for X minutes.

 

Beyond that, its hard to say what would be "worse gameplay" since we'd have to be making assumptions on how Project Eternity's gameplay runs with precious little information.

[metiman]

Yes, but then you could leave the dungeon and find a safe place to rest and then return, right? I guess Josh is at least wondering about the possibility of eliminating a potentially tedious experience from a hopefully fun game. I'm not really sure what I think of this issue except that the idea that you are leaving the area should be respected. Whether this is done with a quick animation or not doesn't seem too important to me.

[Osvir]

Here is something I would like to hear opinions on. Take the following circumstance, which is not uncommon in the IE games and would be somewhat similar to the KotC "campsite" system in circumstances were you are not locked off from backtracking to a campsite.

 

* You are in a location where resting is either prohibited or extraordinarily likely to result in an encounter. You do not know the location of the next campsite/safe resting area.

* You have cast many of your spells and the ones that remain are not entirely appropriate for the encounters you are now facing.

* Because you came from an area where you could rest and are not locked in the location, you have a cleared (by you) path back to the area where you can safely rest.

* It will take you three minutes of real time to walk back to the camp, maybe thirty seconds to reconfigure spells, five seconds to rest, and another three minutes of real time to walk back to where you had left off.

* Because you killed everything between you and the campsite, there are no threats between you and the campsite.

 

In this circumstance, what is good about the experience of walking back to the campsite?

 

In this circumstance I would say that you, Sawyer, didn't prepare well enough walking into the dungeon you haven't been in before and that is your own fault. Carrying only a limited effect of your spells, targeting only a certain type, when you should've seen the Gargoyle statue's outside and brought with you that +1 to Gargoyle's spell you have neatly packed into your Campsite Pack Mule. The townsfolk did warn you did they not?

 

Also, why did you only bring with you one ~Spell Book~ when you could've brought with you two separate Spell Books with separate spells in them.

 

Some of the jokes aside, I see nothing that allure's me by the Path of Shameful "I-did-not-prepare-good-enough-sigh" back and forth, it would bother me in fact. Instead, I would like to have the ability to prepare long term ahead. This Spell Book that I am flirting with would simply be a "Quick Fix" for those who wish to change Spell's mid battle.

 

Now, if Charges are going to present (I mention this in several other posts) your character would be the carrier of the Charges, the Spell Books would not change that.

 

So I have 2/6 Charges, but I am in a situation where I can't tackle with the current Spell Book. Luckily I brought with me another one, so I can quickly change to another set of Spells, which makes it possible for me to take down the sudden mob that ambushed me even before I could turn around and do the back and forth thing.

 

Luckily, the in-game Cooldown for my Spells recharged and gives me +1/ Charge. So I am still at 2/6.

 

Meditation as an Innate Mage Ability; further discussing the above, Meditation could be an ability that only Wizards have, wherein they can (once a day thing) replenish +2/ Charges total. Suddenly I'm at 4/6 and with it, enough, I can go into the last room and take down the Dungeon Boss.

 

Also I think both my suggestion and opinion is fused together somewhere in these paragraphs.

[TrashMan]

Here is something I would like to hear opinions on. Take the following circumstance, which is not uncommon in the IE games and would be somewhat similar to the KotC "campsite" system in circumstances were you are not locked off from backtracking to a campsite.

 

* You are in a location where resting is either prohibited or extraordinarily likely to result in an encounter. You do not know the location of the next campsite/safe resting area.

* You have cast many of your spells and the ones that remain are not entirely appropriate for the encounters you are now facing.

* Because you came from an area where you could rest and are not locked in the location, you have a cleared (by you) path back to the area where you can safely rest.

* It will take you three minutes of real time to walk back to the camp, maybe thirty seconds to reconfigure spells, five seconds to rest, and another three minutes of real time to walk back to where you had left off.

* Because you killed everything between you and the campsite, there are no threats between you and the campsite.

 

In this circumstance, what is good about the experience of walking back to the campsite?

 

 

Does it have to be an amazing experience?

It's just one of the thing you do because it's smart and part of the game. Half the thing poeple do in games isn't an "amazing" experience.

 

Inventory managment? Clicking? Using potions? Waiting.

How about walking back to the quest giver? That ain't an amazing experience...should we remove quests? Maek them auto-compelte wihout us having to bring back the request items/report back?

Even in other types of games...let's take a FPS - what's the experience of hunting down a red keycard then backtracking to the red door? You could say there isn't one and why not deisgn FPS games as liner corridors, so players don't haev to go trough the same area twice. And yet this caused so much rage.

Why do people play Sims?

 

 

Not sure what to tell you.

At the end of the day I want to have the experience of adventure. The experience of being inside the world. If half the stuff from the world is taken out, it's less of an immersive experience.

To be able to tell the story as I play along. And part of that is gone if there isn't a story of a party of heroic adventures, reterning tired and wounded from exploring an ancient tomb, seeking the shleter of the inn or a safe camp. Looking to rest, mend their wounds and prepare for the challenge of tomorrows journey.

 

There's so many things you cna do with a camp/inn. Not just pure resting. Many other things could happen there (cutscenes, conversations, easter eggs, jokes, mini-quests) or on the way to there (who said any road should every be perfectly safe? Just because I killed the badits doesn't mean the road will be safe forever).

Heck, you could make the player EAGER to return back to camp/inn.

Edited October 2, 2012 by TrashMan

[Jaesun]

Here is something I would like to hear opinions on. Take the following circumstance, which is not uncommon in the IE games and would be somewhat similar to the KotC "campsite" system in circumstances were you are not locked off from backtracking to a campsite.

 

* You are in a location where resting is either prohibited or extraordinarily likely to result in an encounter. You do not know the location of the next campsite/safe resting area.

* You have cast many of your spells and the ones that remain are not entirely appropriate for the encounters you are now facing.

* Because you came from an area where you could rest and are not locked in the location, you have a cleared (by you) path back to the area where you can safely rest.

* It will take you three minutes of real time to walk back to the camp, maybe thirty seconds to reconfigure spells, five seconds to rest, and another three minutes of real time to walk back to where you had left off.

* Because you killed everything between you and the campsite, there are no threats between you and the campsite.

 

In this circumstance, what is good about the experience of walking back to the campsite?

 

I would have planned more carefully (conserving spells), to avoid such a situation.

 

how are you planning for something you've not yet seen? Unless you're reloading a save, there's no possible way you can plan well enough unless you also carry around enough divination spells to see every encounter on the map before it happens.

 

I never re-loaded (as in running off, go re-memorize spells stuff then return) in the IE games. I took whatever decisions I made and made due with them as I progressed through an area. THAT was the fun and challenge of the IE games.

[Stun]

Here is something I would like to hear opinions on. Take the following circumstance, which is not uncommon in the IE games and would be somewhat similar to the KotC "campsite" system in circumstances were you are not locked off from backtracking to a campsite.

 

* You are in a location where resting is either prohibited or extraordinarily likely to result in an encounter. You do not know the location of the next campsite/safe resting area.

* You have cast many of your spells and the ones that remain are not entirely appropriate for the encounters you are now facing.

* Because you came from an area where you could rest and are not locked in the location, you have a cleared (by you) path back to the area where you can safely rest.

* It will take you three minutes of real time to walk back to the camp, maybe thirty seconds to reconfigure spells, five seconds to rest, and another three minutes of real time to walk back to where you had left off.

* Because you killed everything between you and the campsite, there are no threats between you and the campsite.

 

In this circumstance, what is good about the experience of walking back to the campsite?

 

A smart player would not find himself in that position. Why should we make the game easier so that unskilled players will not find themselves in that position. Meanwhile I have to say thank you for hardcore mode. How about the unskilled players say thank you for the easy mode and I get to play a game that actually punishes you for being bad at it.

I don't agree with this premise. It's not about "smart" and "un-smart" when your archer has run out of arrows (for example), and is thus faced with the dilema of "do we walk back to town and restock, or do I just press on and use my sword, which I don't have the proper skills for, because I'm not a swordsman, I'm an archer?" Ditto with Running out of spells. You're literally asking mages to not use their arsenal in some fights, so that they will have some left over for later, for that unspecified battle, that their ESP has told them is coming up in a half hour or so.

 

 

Or.... if your inventory is full, and you don't feel like doing something retarded, like discarding loot you fought hard to acquire in order to make more room.

 

I'm in favor of the option to spend some time walking back. it is, after all, the price one pays for the opportunity to replenish.

Edited October 2, 2012 by Stun

[andreisiadi]

What Josh is proposing is: Let's make the game easier so you don't have to walk back to town and rest whenever you make a bad decision.

[Hypevosa]

Here is something I would like to hear opinions on. Take the following circumstance, which is not uncommon in the IE games and would be somewhat similar to the KotC "campsite" system in circumstances were you are not locked off from backtracking to a campsite.

 

* You are in a location where resting is either prohibited or extraordinarily likely to result in an encounter. You do not know the location of the next campsite/safe resting area.

* You have cast many of your spells and the ones that remain are not entirely appropriate for the encounters you are now facing.

* Because you came from an area where you could rest and are not locked in the location, you have a cleared (by you) path back to the area where you can safely rest.

* It will take you three minutes of real time to walk back to the camp, maybe thirty seconds to reconfigure spells, five seconds to rest, and another three minutes of real time to walk back to where you had left off.

* Because you killed everything between you and the campsite, there are no threats between you and the campsite.

 

In this circumstance, what is good about the experience of walking back to the campsite?

 

I would have planned more carefully (conserving spells), to avoid such a situation.

 

how are you planning for something you've not yet seen? Unless you're reloading a save, there's no possible way you can plan well enough unless you also carry around enough divination spells to see every encounter on the map before it happens.

 

I never re-loaded (as in running off, go re-memorize spells stuff then return) in the IE games. I took whatever decisions I made and made due with them as I progressed through an area. THAT was the fun and challenge of the IE games.

 

So this large map had 20 level equivalent encounters on it, naturally causing you to use most of your spells, and you'd rather be forced to walk back to the safe resting area and walk back to where you were standing, when nothing new would happen inbetween?

 

I know games are meant to waste time, but they're supposed to do it in an enjoyable fashion >_>

[Amentep]

Here is something I would like to hear opinions on. Take the following circumstance, which is not uncommon in the IE games and would be somewhat similar to the KotC "campsite" system in circumstances were you are not locked off from backtracking to a campsite.

 

* You are in a location where resting is either prohibited or extraordinarily likely to result in an encounter. You do not know the location of the next campsite/safe resting area.

* You have cast many of your spells and the ones that remain are not entirely appropriate for the encounters you are now facing.

* Because you came from an area where you could rest and are not locked in the location, you have a cleared (by you) path back to the area where you can safely rest.

* It will take you three minutes of real time to walk back to the camp, maybe thirty seconds to reconfigure spells, five seconds to rest, and another three minutes of real time to walk back to where you had left off.

* Because you killed everything between you and the campsite, there are no threats between you and the campsite.

 

In this circumstance, what is good about the experience of walking back to the campsite?

 

I would have planned more carefully (conserving spells), to avoid such a situation.

 

To be fair, you could also just continue on hoping that tactics and other PC/NPCs skills in the party will make up for the limited usefulness of the mage (which is what I usually did in the IE games when I played them)

 

But that answer nor yours is really answering the question as asked since the question is about a situation where you HAVE used the spells and that you CHOOSE to walk back, so what good is the experience of walking for the player?

Edited October 2, 2012 by Amentep

[MReed]

I think the player needs to learn to use magic and their other characters better. A player who is spamming every encounter with all their magic deserves to have to wait for it to come back, as opposed to the one who learns how to place spells effectively, hit enemies with spells that need to be hit with them, and make best use of their entire party rather than just relying on their magic user.

 

Ummmm... You do realize that:

 

1) This theoritical player paid money for this game -- he isn't getting paid to play the game and,

2) This player's game play style doesn't (or shouldn't) impact your own enjoyment of the game in the slightest

 

Right?

 

I mean, I'm not arguing that the game should be made easier so that this bad player never runs into trouble. Nor am arguing that lack of skill shouldn't have consequences (walking back and forth to the camp is, in fact, much less fun than killing monsters). But, hey, if the player wants to do that, then I say "Go for it".

 

My concern (still not 100% addressed) is that the developers don't agree with this sentiment -- in particular, my concern is that the reason that developers are introducing long cooldown times is, in fact, to prevent rest-spamming. Cooldown timers that are reset on rest don't have any impact at all on rest-spamming, after all. If this is untrue, then I'd really like to see a dev post stating that this is not the goal of the cooldown timers.

[qstoffe]

In this circumstance, what is good about the experience of walking back to the campsite?

 

Simple, it's an experience that rewards you if you have used your spells conservatively and punishes those that don't. It teaches you a valuble lesson that you need to be economical when spending yout LIMITED combat resources. IMO spending your combat resources so carelessly should have a bigger punishment then just an annoying walk.

[Hypevosa]

What Josh is proposing is: Let's make the game easier so you don't have to walk back to town and rest whenever you make a bad decision.

 

Challenge and tedium are two different things. Your dead grandmother could walk back to town, rest, and come back... even your pet rock could with minor manipulation. It's JUST tedium.

[Jaesun]

But that answer nor yours is really answering the question as asked since the question is about a situation where you HAVE used the spells and that you CHOOSE to walk back, so what good is the experience of walking for the player?

 

And that is my deterrent to playing sloppily.

[ogrezilla]

What Josh is proposing is: Let's make the game easier so you don't have to walk back to town and rest whenever you make a bad decision.

 

Challenge and tedium are two different things. Your dead grandmother could walk back to town, rest, and come back... even your pet rock could with minor manipulation. It's JUST tedium.

exactly. I want as much challenge as possible and as little tedium as possible.

[J.E. Sawyer]

A smart player would not find himself in that position.

 

I would have planned more carefully (conserving spells), to avoid such a situation.

 

In this circumstance I would say that you, Sawyer, didn't prepare well enough walking into the dungeon you haven't been in before and that is your own fault.

None of these answers address the question I asked.