What do you wish not to see in PE

[Ink Blot]

What's the problem with having a strength requirement for certain melee weapons? Seems logical to me. Armor as well. Real two handed swords are heavy enough that you need some significant strength to handle them properly. And that's even more true with war hammers, maces, flails, and morning stars which would weigh a ton. A mage carrying a giant weapon seems ridiculous to me. Real longbows also require strength to use properly. If you have a weak character you should be restricted to small weapons like daggers or short swords and crossbows (or firearms) for ranged.

 

You should still be able to use the weapons. Not even being able to equip them is silly. Sure, have a STR requirement for a big weapon, but if you don't meet that requirement, don't make it so you can't even equip the damned thing. Make it so you have a penalty to hit and damage which is higher the farther away from the STR requirement your character is. With armors, don't have a requirement per se; rather have a movement penalty if your STR is less than the baseline to use it efficiently. The farther away your STR ism the more the penalty until you get to the point where you can't move.

 

As for other don't wants: I agree with about 90% of what's been posted already, so won't bother making a redundant list. Although I will say that in the end I agree with WillWorker in that I hope Obsidian just makes a game they want to play and don't let fan opinions sway them too much.

 

Oh, and yeah, I wasn't really a big fan of Minsc and Boo either.

[Jaesun]

Fake Biowarian Choice and Consequences. (This can be done in a GOOD way RP wise but not how actually implimented)

Mini-Games

ROMANCE KILL IT WITH FIRE

Pandering to casuals (I get Josh's concerns but catering exclusively is BAD)

HORRIBLE Path finding like all the IE Games

Every option availabe in one play through. As in OMG I DONT WANT PLAYERS TO MISS ALL OUR GAMES EXPERIENCE!!! /Publishers

[metiman]

So the idea with breastplate would be that it would have enough extra room that even large breasted warriors wouldn't be uncomfortable? Perhaps. I'm not sure how real breastplate attaches. Whether it is loosely fitted or tight against the undergarments. I find human female warriors a bit unrealistic anyway. Well, unless steroids are in the game. My female characters are mages and thieves. Not fighters and clerics. Although I could also imagine one as a Kensai type of character with a Katana. Uma Thurman in Kill Bill seemed plausible. But Arnold is a lot more plausible as a Conan the Barbarian type.

[Tenebrael]

1. No level-scalling

2. No "quest aroow" in game (just the indicator on the world map)

3. No mass-effect-style dialogues (i mean both the style and the presentation)

4. No "I am the chosen one" type of main character

5. No random loot

6. No "kill the rats" type of quests

 

Additionally, someone said: "No class/race restrictions in terms of armour and weapons". I'm not sure if it is the right place to answer, but I totally disagree. In my opinion, these restrictions makes the game more challenging and force the player to think a lot about the party roster. Lack of these restrictions means that You can create universal, almost omni-potent characters. Which, in turns, lead to small, 2-3 character parties that could do everything.

[Director]

My mage sided with the Templars, especially after my first playthrough where I sided with the mages and Orsino, seemingly the only sensible mage in the game suddenly was like "OMG those templars you butchered like rats in a tutorial will murder us all unless I turn myself into a demon and attack everyone in sight!"

 

Totally OT - but I had to add that part of DA2 was REALLY DUMB.

[metiman]

Oh yeah. No Alpha Protocol style streamlined-dialogue-for-speed. Ugh. I hated that. It's not worthy of Obsidian.

[Caerdon]

So the idea with breastplate would be that it would have enough extra room that even large breasted warriors wouldn't be uncomfortable? Perhaps. I'm not sure how real breastplate attaches. Whether it is loosely fitted or tight against the undergarments. I find human female warriors a bit unrealistic anyway.

 

Actual live honest-to-god real life female human warriors used the same armor as everyone else. Breastplates were spacious enough. If not, they just got a larger one.

[metiman]

Yeah. I just saw the other thread that links to an article about boob-plate by an actual armorer. Settles the issue for me, but I still don't think human female strength differences are adequately reflected in RPGs and have a hard time role playing a human female character as a fully plate armored warrior with a 18/00 strength and a two handed sword or other giant weapon. Maybe with steriods in the game. For non-human characters of course there is no problem.

[kenup]

5. Play fair. No cheating on the part of the enemy combatants. Anything they can do the player should be able to do and vice-versa. The only exception to this might be gods/deities who may be able to spam lightning bolts indefinitely or whatever. Making them insanely difficult so that they are basically undefeatable is a better option though. I dont' see the need to break the game rules even for gods.

 

You might be close to godhood(or at least your party's collective power is), if you have to fight a god.

 

But more to the point since you brought it up.

 

In Normal Difficulty the same rules should apply, for both PC/companions and enemies. No "DnD Hardcore mode" for that to apply is needed.

 

EDIT: Here's am interesting article about female armour: http://madartlab.com/2011/12/14/fantasy-armor-and-lady-bits/

Edited September 28, 2012 by kenup

[RosesandAshes]

Oh, I forgot one!

I don't want save scumming when it comes to the consequences of my actions, like in The Witcher, where the impact of your choices wasn't apparent until hours later--and EVERY choice made you feel like scum,

Okay, maybe not every choice, but still, it would make you actually think about your choices before making them,

[kenup]

Oh, I forgot one!

I don't want save scumming when it comes to the consequences of my actions, like in The Witcher, where the impact of your choices wasn't apparent until hours later--and EVERY choice made you feel like scum,

Okay, maybe not every choice, but still, it would make you actually think about your choices before making them,

Uh... save-scumming has nothing to do with feeling like you did something evil.

[RosesandAshes]

Oh, I forgot one!

I don't want save scumming when it comes to the consequences of my actions, like in The Witcher, where the impact of your choices wasn't apparent until hours later--and EVERY choice made you feel like scum,

Okay, maybe not every choice, but still, it would make you actually think about your choices before making them,

Uh... save-scumming has nothing to do with feeling like you did something evil.

 

From the same site, under the entry for The Witcher:

 

Save Scumming: Discouraged by the time it usually takes for the effects of decisions to be seen. Worth noting is that the game doesn't overwrite autosaves — which mostly just leads to humongous save file folders.

 

....which is exactly what I was talking about. What I meant was "the effects of your decisions are not immediate 'oh crap I made the wrong choice must reload'" NOT related to the morality of your choices, that's a separate issue, hence why I used a dash.

[alphyna]

• No (Persuade) button. If I'm persuading, write the text option persuasively, dammit! And don't indicate that I'm using the skill, I think I can figure it out.
  
• No cliche-breaking which is cliche in itself, like Brienne-like tough paladinish chicks.
  
• No cliches, by the way.
  
• No tediuous micromanagement for the sake of "realism".
  
• No general two-sided conflict. Storylines with two parties opposed are fine, but the main story has to be a bit more complex.
  
• No infodumping where possible.
  

[kenup]

Oh, I forgot one!

I don't want save scumming when it comes to the consequences of my actions, like in The Witcher, where the impact of your choices wasn't apparent until hours later--and EVERY choice made you feel like scum,

Okay, maybe not every choice, but still, it would make you actually think about your choices before making them,

Uh... save-scumming has nothing to do with feeling like you did something evil.

 

From the same site, under the entry for The Witcher:

 

Save Scumming: Discouraged by the time it usually takes for the effects of decisions to be seen. Worth noting is that the game doesn't overwrite autosaves — which mostly just leads to humongous save file folders.

 

....which is exactly what I was talking about. What I meant was "the effects of your decisions are not immediate 'oh crap I made the wrong choice must reload'" NOT related to the morality of your choices, that's a separate issue, hence why I used a dash.

Oh... ok. Sorry about that.

I just gave an example with the "evil" thing. You said save scumming and that consequences made you feel like scum. Stupid of me, I guess.

[metiman]

I believe "save-scumming" is a console-kiddie term. It implies that having any kind of save is a bad thing. It implies checkpoint-only saves is a good thing. At least that's my understanding. There is no such thing as "save-scumming" in a PC-only game. If you don't want saves you will very likely have an ironman mode where if you die you have to start the game from the beginning. Or how about having an adult level of discipline and just don't save? Definitely not my cup of tea. I find repetitiveness boring. If I have to replay even a small portion that I have just played it is a serious penalty to me IRL. If I have to replay large sections more than once I likely will just uninstall the game at that point.

[TwinkieGorilla]

Just write the things that are common in RPGs but you wouldn't want to encounter when playing PE.

 

- Pandering to people who've discovered RPGs via consoles.

[Badmojo]

What I do not want to see

- treated exactly the same regardless what species/race/sex/etc I am, characters should be treated DIFFERENTLY on a host of factors, both good and ill.

- no real world political correctness

- mandatory sleeping, eating, farting, potion drinking, armour degrading etc annoying time sinks realistic simulator micromanagement hell

- binary choices, you only have TWO choices to this problem, you should have a lot of possible ways to solve problems

- dumbed down choices

- no relationships outside the quests. I want to make friends, love interests, rivals..etc to give my character more meaning than the all mighty quests

- the inevetable backstab trope - oh, hey mysterious stranger who is our friend all of a sudden, I am sure you won't backstab me later in the game...yea right, or if you are going to include it, then please make the reasoning interesting.

- solve every porblem with violence. I like non violent characters, let me optionally solve problems without violence.

- meaningless choices that will have the exact same outcome

- let us be evil/dark path, not just sortof bad path

- dumb evil choices, give multiple evil choices that are not simple evil extreme, have it go through the spectrum of evil.

- level scaling

- loot scaling

- timed quests

- Calling the game mature, but is really just a PG-13 game with token mature elements in it.

Edited September 28, 2012 by Badmojo

[BruceVC]

Just write the things that are common in RPGs but you wouldn't want to encounter when playing PE.

 

Rules:

-no things that are almost certainly not going to be included in PE (like action gameplay etc.)

-no romance discussion

 

- Any aspect of the game that doesn't allow Romance\Sex

 

 

Otherwise I am comfortable with seeing how Obsidian will develop the game.

Edited September 28, 2012 by BruceVC

[Audiocide]

No level scaling.

 

No quick travel.

 

No quest trackers or pointers.

 

No.. and I can not stress this enough. No auto dialogue!

 

I have many thoughts on this particular topic, but your post is pretty much dead-on.

 

No cinematic movie approach. This is a game, I want it to be written like it's a DnD adventure, not a action film where I sit back and watch as my character is all awesome. This is the problem I have with Bioware's games, they seem more interested in being films and telling you the plot and how to act rather than letting the player steer.

 

I agree. As much as I absolutely loved the last Mass Effect, including the ending, I would give anything for another Baldur's Gate or Torment type of game that lets your imagination do the work.

 

Another pet peeve of mine, especially with Bethesda games is the usage of Hollywood actors for voiceovers. I mean, I love Sean Bean's movie work, but his voice is instantly recognizable, and that detracts from game immersion in my opinion.

 

I'm all for Kevin Michael Richardson though. He did Sarevok, and worked on a bunch of other games. I think he's one of the greatest voice actors out there. Also Ron Perlman. Although, I forget this is a limited budget project, so, those names might be too costly anyway.

Edited September 28, 2012 by Audiocide

[kenup]

Oh, and lest I forget.

 

No Shepard Jennifer Hale!

[Merin]

- everything is grey: I'm so tired of moral ambivalence.... make the world where good, bad and indifference all unhappily co-exist

- skill imbalance: if a skill cannot be used often in the game, don't have it as a skill in the game

- overabundance of loot: more money and sell-able items from defeated opponents, less iron daggers; let us buy (or build) our good items, with a very few rare exceptions of named item drops on important opponents

- magic-user OP: please balance it so that the wizard doesn't rule the game

- voice-over: there will be some, understood... but hopefully very little to none for the MC, and most of the dialog will be text only to add for more depth and options

- random encounters: the absolutely random ones, where you travel the world map (or are just walking through an area) and completely randomized monsters groups can hit you, repeatedly... just no

- affliction storyline / mechanic: I think it may be too late to say this at this point, but I don't want my main character to be saddled with some plot device sickness or curse that slowly eats at him over the game or drives him forward in very specific ways... this also feels tired right now

- excessive tragedy in the story: some downers are expected, and heartache makes for compelling storytelling... however, make sure there's enough humor to balance it out - Dragon Age 2, for example, was a depression fest of constantly killing off family members, friends, half of cities, those people you save the previous chapter... just, let the protagonist do some lasting good sometimes, and have the occasional bit of humor that isn't dark humor

- all companions being dark, tragic, or of questionable character: I'm sure a pattern is showing here... but I am so sick of "dark fantasy" and "grim and gritty" storytelling; how about a couple happy companions, or at least stoic without horrible pasts they are running from...

- multi-classing: just no

- excessively complicated combat mechanics: stuff like attacks of opportunity, facing, shields only protecting one side, weapon types (like slashing or piercing or bludgeoning) and the need to paper-rock-scissors the basic combat implements against foes who are resistant to types, too many levels of buffing, spell combos.... combat should be fun, tactical, and open to multiple ways to approach any given fight...but when you get to the ridiculous level of, say, ToEE and five-foot stepping.... gah, no...

- everyone's friend: in one playthrough the player should not be able to befriend all factions ... at least a few should be "either/or" situtations; players also shouldn't be able to join every available group in one playthrough, either

- completionist: the player shouldn't be able to see the entire map, finish every quest, and see every part of the story in just one playthrough... there should be stuff that is dependent, in many different ways, on player choices (at character creation AND during the game) so that the weight and meaning of said choices last welly outside of the choice itself

 

...

 

and that's enough from me for now.

[Audiocide]

5. Play fair. No cheating on the part of the enemy combatants. Anything they can do the player should be able to do and vice-versa. The only exception to this might be gods/deities who may be able to spam lightning bolts indefinitely or whatever. Making them insanely difficult so that they are basically undefeatable is a better option though. I dont' see the need to break the game rules even for gods.

 

Definitely agree. Actually, I think that even the gods or godlike beings should be killable - even if it's extremely difficult. One of the most memorable things about Morrowind for me was killing Vivec and trapping his soul in Azura's Star (no other soul gem was large enough).

[Audiocide]

What's the problem with having a strength requirement for certain melee weapons? Seems logical to me. Armor as well. Real two handed swords are heavy enough that you need some significant strength to handle them properly. And that's even more true with war hammers, maces, flails, and morning stars which would weigh a ton. A mage carrying a giant weapon seems ridiculous to me. Real longbows also require strength to use properly. If you have a weak character you should be restricted to small weapons like daggers or short swords and crossbows (or firearms) for ranged.

 

True. I saw an actual sword in a museum that looked absolutely ridiculous. But some dude, many centuries ago, was able to actually swing it.

 

But they should be rare weapons. A smith wouldn't craft 50 pound swords just for fun. Nobody would buy them. Base strength requirements and penalties are fine. A 150 pound rogue would be all but useless in full plate armor. But scaled equipment that requires ever increasing levels of a particular stat is just silly. Actually, I'd be happy without increasing stats with every level.

[Mabster]

Here's a few, though I have a feeling they might be a bit unpopular.

 

- No gullible merchants with infinite money. No merchant is going to buy a wagon-load of bloody and slashed gear fresh from a recently murdered group of bandits, or items suspiciously similar to their own stock that have recently gone missing. Most surplus gear should be either broken down for parts or left behind.

 

- No magic bottomless pockets. A character should be able to carry only some essentials depending on the clothing they wear. Backpacks can be used to haul stuff around, but wearing one to combat might be a bad idea. (JA2 had a fun system with this philosophy, especially modded.)

 

- No endless item power progression. Items should come with a pretty modest power curve throughout the game, so that there are always options to choose the best tools for the job, and not just the stuff with the biggest numbers attached. If I want to fight an ice troll and I have a fire axe I found a number of encounters ago, it would suck if that weapon is useless because its numbers are not manly enough anymore.

 

- No endless character power progression. An angry group of peasants should pose a potential threat to any warrior. Going *ding* a few times by punching bears to the face in a forest isn't proper justification for superhuman powers.

Edited September 28, 2012 by Mabster

[dlux]

Off the top of my head:

 

-the ability to explicitly kill children

-level scaling

-bad voice work (do it right or don't do it at all)

-bad story

-fetch quests

-worthless gold

-items in abundance

-listed inventory, like in Skyrim (I hate this!!)

-inventory tetris

-dovakhin ^^