On the case of grittness

[Cryticus]

I notice, that many people want P:E to be realstic, mature, adult , etc and I am okay with it but please let it be truly realistic and not Dark for the sake of being dark, in many settings grittness works but lattly I saw plenty of games and gamers going all out on the darkness because of it supposed maturity, so dear obsidian I trust that you and hope that you will not artificiay insert grittness, and make everyone pedophile child murder fetishist and a FATAList just to pander to the "Mature" fans

[horocaust]

You mentioned FATAL and maturity in the same sentence. Dividing by zero creates less of a paradox than that.

[Cryticus]

I know but this is only term I can use to describe this type of people who find the fact that you can see boobies and this character raped his daughter as sign of mature content.

I dont have anything against Mature content but I would like if this was mature for mature people and not what imature find mature

[horocaust]

It's Obsidian. That's enough of guarantee that there won't be stuff like you're talking about.

[HangedMan]

It's Obsidian. That's enough of guarantee that there won't be stuff like you're talking about.

I second this.

[nikolokolus]

I have every confidence that the devs aren't going to go "dark" just to be edgy.

[Badmojo]

The main thing is that I just do not want the game to have mature in the title, then only have a few *Token* mature moments and in the end is just a PG-13 game. I would say DAO went that route, and DA2 wasn't even up to PG-13 in my mind. I liked the old fallout games 1/2. 2 more than 1 in my mind, it covered very mature serious subjects without shying away, but it also lightened the mood by having dark humor now and again.

[Piccolo]

I don't want it to be dark just for the sake of being dark either. Nor do I want it to have a 15 year old's idea of maturity, like the Witcher series.

 

I trust Obsidian to use mature themes in a way that only adds to the experience.

[Luckmann]

When I launch the game, I want my monitor to become covered in thick layer of grime, my PSU to ooze fat, black smoke, and be punched in the face with rust-clad gauntlet.

 

How's that for grit?

[Tychoxi]

We all know grimdark, breasts and bloody head explosions is what makes a game mature, I'm not following the OP reallly.

Edited September 24, 2012 by Tychoxi

[Lt. Lizard]

The problem is that how much "dark" is "too dark" differs greatly from person to person. What do you consider "too dark"? Dragon Age? Witcher? Game of Thrones? Berserker? Warhammer 40k?

 

But considering that one of the stated goals behind Project Eternity is to create a mature game where "mature" means "exploration of mature themes" and not "gore, nudity, sex and rock'n'roll", I dont think you have to worry too much about it.

[Lurky]

Avellone already said that they wouldn't be "dark for the sake of dark", for the same reasons you said. Here's the interview.

 

- Well going back to NPC reactions, how deeply will morality enter into plot progression? Just how dark are you looking to go with the narrative?

- Dark’s a little boring to me, and it’s also too easy to fall down that hole in storytelling in an attempt to be pseudo-hardcore. Some of our strongest releases kept the dark on the backburner and cloaked it within a blanket of humor, and people responded to both.

 

There is no reason to worry.

[czinczar]

Soleynt green, that movie was "dark" in the core sense. Assisted suicides, making food from human remains, all that on the surface of a dying planet because of centuries of human greed, and the powers that be lying about it, covering that disgusting hell of a society behind a thin layer of varnish composed of mindless entertainment, false flag conflicts, ideological scam and mystification..

[horocaust]

Soleynt green, that movie was "dark" in the core sense. Assisted suicides, making food from human remains, all that on the surface of a dying planet because of centuries of human greed, and the powers that be lying about it, covering that disgusting hell of a society behind a thin layer of varnish composed of mindless entertainment, false flag conflicts, ideological scam and mystification..

That reminds me that very much depends on perspective. I see nothing dark about assisted suicides and making food of humans, first because I believe in unalienable right of people for choosing death, which in itself is not dark, and second because why not? I see no difference between eating a cow and eating a human.

[Playgu]

I hope there is variation. I'd prefer if some areas are bright and high fantasy esque, like LotR elf or hobbit villages. While other areas are dark and gritty, like PS:T and NwN:HotU.

[nikolokolus]

Soleynt green, that movie was "dark" in the core sense. Assisted suicides, making food from human remains, all that on the surface of a dying planet because of centuries of human greed, and the powers that be lying about it, covering that disgusting hell of a society behind a thin layer of varnish composed of mindless entertainment, false flag conflicts, ideological scam and mystification..

That reminds me that very much depends on perspective. I see nothing dark about assisted suicides and making food of humans, first because I believe in unalienable right of people for choosing death, which in itself is not dark, and second because why not? I see no difference between eating a cow and eating a human.

 

How "evolved" of you ...

[horocaust]

Soleynt green, that movie was "dark" in the core sense. Assisted suicides, making food from human remains, all that on the surface of a dying planet because of centuries of human greed, and the powers that be lying about it, covering that disgusting hell of a society behind a thin layer of varnish composed of mindless entertainment, false flag conflicts, ideological scam and mystification..

That reminds me that very much depends on perspective. I see nothing dark about assisted suicides and making food of humans, first because I believe in unalienable right of people for choosing death, which in itself is not dark, and second because why not? I see no difference between eating a cow and eating a human.

 

How "evolved" of you ...

I also see no difference between killing a cow and killing a human. Just because it's not of the same species as you or does not have true sentience does not mean it's okay to harm it. So yeah.

And yes, it's 'outgrown such silly superstitions' trope.

Edited September 24, 2012 by horocaust

[czinczar]

I see no difference between eating a cow and eating a human.

 

You mean it's equally as bad and should be avoided ?

[draft1983]

I know but this is only term I can use to describe this type of people who find the fact that you can see boobies and this character raped his daughter as sign of mature content.

I dont have anything against Mature content but I would like if this was mature for mature people and not what imature find mature

 

I kinda find this ironic, seeing as you are the one who in fact started a topic about someone raping someones daughter - this is the first time i have heard this mentioned within these forums ^^ you must be immature to start a thread about this

[-TK-]

I think a good example to look to would be 'The Witcher'

 

It's a game with a lot of personality, primarily because the towns are filthy and believable, it isn't dark for the sake of dark; people are people, they have their own motivations, and usually they put themselves first, there's crap in the gutters and the people are pockmarked and gross (apart from the fhm model porstitutes, which breaks the feel slightly)

 

I hate seeing 'technicolor' fantasy settings. 'TES: Oblivion' being a prime example, nothing is more jarring than the peasantry being in freshly drycleaned clothes and salon styled hair walking down pristine coblestone paths.

Edited September 24, 2012 by -TK-

[Tigranes]

At least everyone was butt-ugly, to make up for the cleanness.

[KenThomas]

I notice, that many people want P:E to be realstic, mature, adult , etc and I am okay with it but please let it be truly realistic and not Dark for the sake of being dark, in many settings grittness works but lattly I saw plenty of games and gamers going all out on the darkness because of it supposed maturity, so dear obsidian I trust that you and hope that you will not artificiay insert grittness, and make everyone pedophile child murder fetishist and a FATAList just to pander to the "Mature" fans

 

I'm not a fan of thug fantasy games like grand theft auto and its assorted clones. I think they're for losers. That said, I am a fan of games that feel like I could possibly die without a whole lot of warning. Games that force me to focus. As it happens, Bioshock and Dark Souls had that kind of gameplay. A game wouldn't need to be thematically dark in order to give that sense, it just needs to have NPCs that are relatively powerful. I would much prefer feeling like I have to walk my way through a dungeon checking for traps than thinking "hell ill just run through when I spring them I'll heal up, hit the rest button and move on". I'd like enemies and environmental challenges that force me to pay attention to them rather than becoming a mindless grind.

[KenThomas]

When I launch the game, I want my monitor to become covered in thick layer of grime, my PSU to ooze fat, black smoke, and be punched in the face with rust-clad gauntlet.

 

How's that for grit?

 

 

hahaha totally awesome. Especially the part about the rusty gauntlet.

 

As for examples with regards to the rest of the thread: I think the movie Kingdom of Heaven was a good example of maturity and grit without going over the top or falling into the clean peasantland fantasies. In that movie people were generally dirty, violence and death were more common, yet people still had civility. Death came faster, information was less freely gathered and the characters and their values and concerns were fairly realistic for what we can tell about that time period. I never understand why movies like that (much like Paul Verhoeven's Flesh + Blood in the 80's) get trashed by critics.

Edited September 24, 2012 by KenThomas