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Dear Obsidian,

 

Actually, asking for a 'yes' or 'no' about romance is just silly. It simply is part of the relationship your main character will have with the people around you. If you can end up hating each other, why not love each other? For me, however, it is most important that romance has to be done extremely well in the game. I disliked the fact in certain games that romance ended up only in having sex with each other.

 

A game that deals great with its companions storylines is, of course, Baldur's Gate. Especially Shadows of Amn & Throne of Bhaal. I could not stop ending up with Aerie, every single time. Also, because every time it was different! I made her hate me, I made her leave me and I made her stay with me. Her background s6tory was beautiful and so was the relationship between my character and her. This was because her background storyline was so beautiful and saddening, the dialogue and storytelling that developed while playing the game was incredibly neatly done and because of the beautiful music that shared the scenes. It is also very important to note that the romance did not simply develop according to some amount of 'gifts' that would have been given, but according to the unique dialogue and due to the time the character was given to 'think' about what was said.

 

Also, and this is bringing tears into my eyes, the romance that was shared with Jaheira. It does not always need to end up in sex or marriage, because romance can be complicated due to events that happened (shared or no) in the past. Jaheira faced some serious things right at the beginning of SoA, and it changed and scarred her completely. The great thing about Baldur's Gate was that these things felt so real.

 

In short, I think it is very important that romance is incorporated in the game, as it is part of the storylines between your character and your companion(s). However, I believe it must be done extremely well. I think romance in the game should be treated seriously. It needs a unique and possibly extensive background story and a story that intertwines with the characters actions and dialogue choices. Romance requires time and does not need to be nice and joyful. Romance can be very saddening, also. Oh, and it needs a corresponding musical score.

 

- Keldorn

Edited by Keldorn
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Yay.

 

Just not the token-buying friendship/romance/loyalty.

A gift should be a sign of interest, or care, but shouldn't be the only reason a companion change opinion on you.

 

Let's the companions fall for what I do, not for who I am, nor for the gifts.

And not just in love. My character could be loathed, admired, dreaded, respected, begrudged...


I've come to burn your kingdom down

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Lots of nubs pitching in here. Where, I wonder, are they being bussed in from?


sonsofgygax.JPG

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Lots of nubs pitching in here. Where, I wonder, are they being bussed in from?

From where? From Facebook, through the community page of 'Baldur's Gate Series', through its post about Project Eternity and eventually through the kickstarter page. Today. Just now.

 

Is it so strange, though? I need to start posting somewhere. I just know I want to pitch in and share my thoughts, since I have seen my share of RPG's.

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No, you are most welcome and I would hate to be thought of as not being delighted to see new faces.

 

It's just that this is a hotly-contested issue and I suspected that the pro-romance forces might have rallied allies from the festering craters of the abyss (Bioware Social).

 

I came across as less-than-welcoming and I apologize.


sonsofgygax.JPG

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Personally in a fantasy RPG I prefer fantastic relationships, with exotic partners or circumstances that you'd never get in real life. I get enough exposure to standard human relationships from all the other media and indeed everyday life.

 

 

I prefer fantasy firmly grounded in reality.

 

And having a romance with a half-ghost-zombie-dragon lady is something that is totally unappealing...Actually more like retarded. Some on BSN wanted to romance Justice...the corpse....

 

I'm happy with my human-centric flavor nad relative normality. Humanes. Elves. Maaaaybe dwarves.. everything else is just too damn weird.

 

To date BG2 still had hte best party relationships. Romance and otherwise.


* YOU ARE A WRONGULARITY FROM WHICH NO RIGHT CAN ESCAPE! *

Chuck Norris was wrong once - He thought HE made a mistake!

 

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Both of you are weird.

 

Oh man, someone looked at you. KILL HIM!! KILL HIM NOW!!!

It's more like this:

Oh man, someone has been looking at me sleeping for the past 20 years, unseen. Kill him now before he makes a funny hat out of my scalp.

 

That is called "projecting your fears" and nto paying attention, thus condeming a character beforehand.

 

First of all she (Elaniee or something like that, wasn't it?) had a job to watch over you. She was your guardian. So keepign an eye on you was her job. And doing it from the shadows to not cause problems is purely logical.

 

Secondly, just because she looked at the PC while he was sleeping occasionaly doesn't make it creepy. You have some strange mental image of her spending hours just staring at you like a cannibal.

Newsflash for you - people do it all the time. And they do it out out of love or because someone/something is eandearing.

 

Mothers look at their childern when they sleep.

Lovers often take a minute just looking at their significant other sleeping and feeling glad they are there.

Heck, people can even watch a puppy sleep and go "aaaaaaw...so cute".

 

It ain't creepy. It's only creepy because you choose to see it as that. The problem is you.


* YOU ARE A WRONGULARITY FROM WHICH NO RIGHT CAN ESCAPE! *

Chuck Norris was wrong once - He thought HE made a mistake!

 

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Personally in a fantasy RPG I prefer fantastic relationships, with exotic partners or circumstances that you'd never get in real life. I get enough exposure to standard human relationships from all the other media and indeed everyday life.

 

 

I prefer fantasy firmly grounded in reality.

 

And having a romance with a half-ghost-zombie-dragon lady is something that is totally unappealing...Actually more like retarded. Some on BSN wanted to romance Justice...the corpse....

 

I'm happy with my human-centric flavor nad relative normality. Humanes. Elves. Maaaaybe dwarves.. everything else is just too damn weird.

 

To date BG2 still had hte best party relationships. Romance and otherwise.

Yeah but Bioware made BG2 and you see what happened to them. With the success of their romances, came more and more resources dedicated to romances until you got the ME and DA series. I'm surprised people would like to see Obsidian travel down that dark, lonely road.
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No, you are most welcome and I would hate to be thought of as not being delighted to see new faces.

 

It's just that this is a hotly-contested issue and I suspected that the pro-romance forces might have rallied allies from the festering craters of the abyss (Bioware Social).

 

I came across as less-than-welcoming and I apologize.

Thank you, and of course I accept your apology.

 

But it's not surprising a subject like this is hotly debated. That is essentially why I made my first post on these forums. For me it also is a kind of a dealbreaker. I tend to look past the action in the game and love the lore and storytelling of both the main storyline and of the companion's. I believe romance is simply a part of this, as is any form of relationship with companions - be it love, hate, or simple friendship.

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I am surprised you would find thought depressing, BG2 type relationships were good enough for me and they were a small part of the overall excellence of the game and you could choose to ignore them.

 

Well people that actively want it being the majority of fans of this project is just sad and weird to me. I suspect most don't care either way if you can get some NPC to shower your avatar with love or whatever.

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Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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Well, I would agree with you that it's becoming somewhat redicolous. Some people want to turn the game into a romance simulator.

 

As I said - personally I like a well done romance, but it's a nice EXTRA, not something I think an RPG must have.

You can compeltely remove them and just have party NPC be friends, and I'd still be just as happy.


* YOU ARE A WRONGULARITY FROM WHICH NO RIGHT CAN ESCAPE! *

Chuck Norris was wrong once - He thought HE made a mistake!

 

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Both of you are weird.

 

Oh man, someone looked at you. KILL HIM!! KILL HIM NOW!!!

It's more like this:

Oh man, someone has been looking at me sleeping for the past 20 years, unseen. Kill him now before he makes a funny hat out of my scalp.

 

That is called "projecting your fears" and nto paying attention, thus condeming a character beforehand.

 

First of all she (Elaniee or something like that, wasn't it?) had a job to watch over you. She was your guardian. So keepign an eye on you was her job. And doing it from the shadows to not cause problems is purely logical.

 

Secondly, just because she looked at the PC while he was sleeping occasionaly doesn't make it creepy. You have some strange mental image of her spending hours just staring at you like a cannibal.

Newsflash for you - people do it all the time. And they do it out out of love or because someone/something is eandearing.

 

Mothers look at their childern when they sleep.

Lovers often take a minute just looking at their significant other sleeping and feeling glad they are there.

Heck, people can even watch a puppy sleep and go "aaaaaaw...so cute".

 

It ain't creepy. It's only creepy because you choose to see it as that. The problem is you.

Newsflash for you: people who you do not personally know or even know about watching you sleeping is creepy. And this whole cliché "I fell in love watching my charge from the shadows" storyline needs to die a dog's death, that's how ****ing creepy it is.

 

Were you voted by your highschool "Most likely to become serial rapist" or something?

 

And I am not your puppy.


Say no to popamole!

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So, moving away from the crazy stalker elf bitch, who shall henceforth be known unto me as CSEB, what types of romances are people looking for?

 

 

Personally I want one reminiscent of this

 

http://youtu.be/FmkHqUwa4zg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

P.S. The above question may or may not have just been an excuse to post that video. I admit to NOTHING. Although the lyric about souls could be tied in quite nicely with PE.

 

 

P.P.S. However, for those Europeans who watch the video and get an urge to see them in concert, they are currently on tour in Europe.


"You know, there's more to being an evil despot than getting cake whenever you want it"

 

"If that's what you think, you're DOING IT WRONG."

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Well, I would agree with you that it's becoming somewhat redicolous. Some people want to turn the game into a romance simulator.

 

This really sounds like a straw man to me. Who's asking for the game to be a "romance simulator" - as in, find a quote of someone saying that.

 

Wanting romance in the game isn't asking for it to be a romance simulator.

 

Get some quotes... who's asking for romance simulator? How many people? What percentage?

 

Wanting romance in the game != wanting the game to be a romance simulator.

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I am surprised you would find thought depressing, BG2 type relationships were good enough for me and they were a small part of the overall excellence of the game and you could choose to ignore them.

 

Well people that actively want it being the majority of fans of this project is just sad and weird to me. I suspect most don't care either way if you can get some NPC to shower your avatar with love or whatever.

 

I doubt most of the people asking for romances just want to be showered with love.

 

Personally I'd like to see them use their freedom to tackle romances with mature issues involved instead of just a path to a happy ending. For exemple if there was a love interest that would cheat on the pc, you could forgive or break up, but they would keep doing it; this way the only happy endind would be to walk away from the romance entirely. That's the kind of thing that sounds interesting to me, see what my choices say about me in the end, something beyond "would you like to have sex with an elf?".

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This really sounds like a straw man to me. Who's asking for the game to be a "romance simulator" - as in, find a quote of someone saying that.

I'll just drop this here. You don't outright say it, but you can read in between the lines.

 

Personally I love how well done the romances are in Bioware's games. I love that I have the options to choose who I want to romance and that I can romance every companion in my party.

 

I'd like to see PE do the same in their games. Hopefully Obsidian will take a cue from Bioware and create romance options like in DA2. That way everyone has a romance option.

 

Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

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I don't care even slightly if there are romances in principle- gay, straight, casual, deep whatever- so long as they're handled well. A properly done, mature relationship- or even just going two people going at it like rabbits in a stressful situation- is fine by me, so long as it's optional. But I'm no fan of 'romances' as currently implemented because they tend far too often to be checkbox lists, both in terms of performing a series of tests to get the nookie reward at the end, and as a tick on a list of fanservice items.

 

Basically, what I definitely don't want to see is the typical Romance Flow Chart of chat x3, deal with (daddy/ trust) issues, fade to black just before end of game; nor the feeling that any character is primarily an excuse to have (a) romance(s) in the game. Opportunities for 'gratuitous' sex as done in something like Fallout/2 fine. Opportunities for development of a 'proper' relationship, fine too. But please, no codependency, no daddy/ trust issues (well, unless they're uniquely handled) and absolutely no pandering just for the sake of it.

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If they can develop a good relationship and write the relationship into the narrative (so building suspense like in KOTOR), then yes please. If it requires less choices, or even just 1 romance choice, so be it.

 

Bioware romances on the whole just seem to come out of nowhere and require head-canon to make sense. Sure, some voice actors do a good job but the romances themselves are usually weak.

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Why not just make two versions of the game? One for the men and one for the women. The female version of the game would be chock full of romances written by actual females (not by MCA). The male version would not have any romances that aren't a part of the main plot, but it would have an extended story that results in the same amount of overall development time. I used to think it would be a great thing if more women liked to use computers and play computer games, but it has turned into a curse. Men and women simply don't like the same kinds of stories. Hollywood has figured this out already. They have films, like Sleepless in Seattle or other RomComs, that are specifically targeted toward women where they don't expect to have any male viewers at all (with the exception of the ones who are forced into it by their wife/gf). Unlike Bioware, the Obsidian designers seem to be mostly male. I can't imagine any of them are too thrilled with the idea of writing romances. Surely that's not what they signed up for. It's like getting a job at Sony designing the next AIBO robot dog and then finding out they also expect you to clean the toilets. I guess that might be why hiring an extra writer was mentioned. Presumably some woman who doesn't mind writing that sort of stuff. Incidentally, it's hard for me to imagine any self-respecting man begging for romances in a computer game. Romances are a girl thing. You may as well wear lipstick and pink panties.

Edited by metiman
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JoshSawyer: Listening to feedback from the fans has helped us realize that people can be pretty polarized on what they want, even among a group of people ostensibly united by a love of the same games. For us, that means prioritizing options is important. If people don’t like a certain aspect of how skill checks are presented or how combat works, we should give them the ability to turn that off, resources permitting.

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