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Chaz

Is the camera going to be locked? :(

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Something I really liked about titles like Neverwinter Nights or Dragon Age is that they allowed you to have a top down tactical view of the battlefield, but they also gave you the freedom to Zoom in, Zoom out, change the angle, maybe you'd like to have the camera closer while you are roaming or check out how the new armor looks in your character.

 

I'd like to share a few screenshots (not taken by me)

 

imgDragon%20Age:%20Origins1.jpg

 

Or even THIS screenshot of Neverwinter Nights

 

 

I think they show that you can be true to the classics like Planescape and still have something more modern like the freedom of camera.

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I don't mind free camera but prefer locked one. If you do free camera, don't, for god's sake, extend the details of environment only so that the game looks gorgeous also when zoomed. It is pointless when you spend 99% of playtime zoomed out.

 

And by the way, camera sucked in Dungeon Siege 3.

Edited by Smejki

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a locked camera allows the designers to create atmosphere akin to a movie director/cinemetographer. mise-en-scene etc

 

its rarely used to good effect in video games though

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If when they say isometric, they mean true isometric projection, then no there would be no zoom or non-parallel camera movement at all. If, however, it will be running on a 3D engine with a isometric-like perspective, then there is the possibility of zoom. I prefer the former though.


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NWN 2's zoomable camera was very much hated and reviled. DA:O did a bit of a better job but the thing is, if the camera is unlocked, then the designers don't have a POV to draw to, and eventually playing is a nightmare of constantly readjusting the camera. I know how much I suffered playing DA:O and NWN2. I don't want that again.

Edited by Solivagant

Dragonblade of the Obsidian Order

 

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a locked camera allows the designers to create atmosphere akin to a movie director/cinemetographer. mise-en-scene etc

 

its rarely used to good effect in video games though

One of the few things Diablo III got right. Some areas have extreme level of detail because of the locked isometric perspective. I know Diablo III doesn't technically have locked camera, since you can zoom a little bit in and out, but it hardly changes the perspective at all.

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I know how much I suffered playing DA:O and NWN2. I don't want that again.

 

You "suffered" playing those games?

 

hu... ok?

 

I think it can be done, even Wasteland 2 that will have isometric view will let you

a little, I'm not sure what's the big deal. Edited by Chaz
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if camera absolutely must be locked due to 2d backgrounds, at least let us inspect the avatars close up from any angle on the character screen

 

they said models would be 3d so that should be easily doable

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Locked camera on 2D painted backgrounds. No camera rotation, no zoom. Old school all the way :)

Edited by Goran

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I prefer to keep it completely isometric. I did like neverwinter nights but keep in mind this game is a 6 member party games and I don't want the gameplay to be so simple as to be able to zoom in on a single player and still play. I want combat to be complex and require the control of every party member. This should be purely locked as isometric and that's it. Just my 2 cents.

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if camera absolutely must be locked due to 2d backgrounds, at least let us inspect the avatars close up from any angle on the character screen

 

they said models would be 3d so that should be easily doable

The Sims is an entirely different franchise.


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There's pros and cons to locked and free-camera, so to me it just depends on the game. From what little information we have, I think I prefer the locked down camera in this instance. That said, if the budget/time allowed, I wouldn't mind a vanity-zoom. One level of zoom that's largely for admiring yourself/details/screenshots but not good for actually playing. Doesn't have to be rotating/free-camera zoom to be satisfying for a vanity-look cam.

Edited by LadyCrimson
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As long as they hand us a "relock" camera key so I can always go the default angle/zoom with ease I have no problems with this. I do like rotating the camera during combat. But yeah, if it's really 2D backgrounds, then rotation is out of the question, and zooming, while doable with 2D, is something I find useful but don't care so much about.

 

To clarify, by "angle" I mean rotation, not going away from isometric. While I'm not oppossed to such a free camera, I like me them isometric views! When you can change the angle away from isometric into basically any point of view the thing is bound to bump into objects or the view is suddenly "pushed" by hitting the wall that's now behind the camera (see the "relock" button thing I said above) and returning to an angle you enjoy can also be difficult (again refer to "relock" button).

 

I prefer to keep it completely isometric. I did like neverwinter nights but keep in mind this game is a 6 member party games and I don't want the gameplay to be so simple as to be able to zoom in on a single player and still play. I want combat to be complex and require the control of every party member. This should be purely locked as isometric and that's it. Just my 2 cents.

 

"zooming" includes zooming out too!

Edited by Tychoxi

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I know how much I suffered playing DA:O and NWN2. I don't want that again.

 

You "suffered" playing those games?

 

hu... ok?

 

I think it can be done, even Wasteland 2 that will have isometric view will let you

a little, I'm not sure what's the big deal.

 

Yeah I suffered, you won't believe I often I would change the camera position in NWN2.

 

Example:

 

It's a tunnel? Ok, lemme put in a third person over the shoulder view, cause otherwise the walls don't let me the scenery.

Oh now its an open area? I'm going to zoom out and go all isometric style.

Now it's a tunnel again? Ok third person, zoom in, fiddle a bit, there.

Ok zooming out again, but now I can't see much forward properly.

 

I would do this for hours, and then panning and rotating the camera so it would follow the character. It's a pain. Just give me a fixed camera.

 

EDIT: I'm fine with Zoom, just don't allow rotation.

Edited by Solivagant

Dragonblade of the Obsidian Order

 

No sleep for the Watcher

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NWN 2's zoomable camera was very much hated and reviled. DA:O did a bit of a better job but the thing is, if the camera is unlocked, then the designers don't have a POV to draw to, and eventually playing is a nightmare of constantly readjusting the camera. I know how much I suffered playing DA:O and NWN2. I don't want that again.

i agree on the NWN 2 part - but then again, tell me a single obsidian game that didn't suck big time when it comes to camera movement (except the 2d games of course)

but Dragon Age? the camera was perfect there (ok, too close in DA2 but the first one was superb)

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but Dragon Age? the camera was perfect there (ok, too close in DA2 but the first one was superb)

 

It was much better but I still flayed it with a lot! I aimed to play the game at an isometric viewpoint but I couldn't see anything in front of me like that, also the panning wasn't great, not as permissive as Baldur's Gate.

 

I liked The Witcher's implementation, I'll give you that.


Dragonblade of the Obsidian Order

 

No sleep for the Watcher

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I recently replayed Dragon Age and while I enjoy that game a lot, I think the camera is painful to work sometimes. Especially when it changes zoom level when you walk underneath something.

 

Don't get me wrong, I get the appeal of "free camera movement" like in NWN2 and DA:O but it brings with it a lot of development trouble and a lot of complaining from people. If you have the locked camera, you also "only" have to make sure that the game looks good from one point of view.

 

That said, I wouldn't be opposed to some minor zooming controls.


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Didn't Titan Quest have a locked camera? Or wait.. I think you could zoom a little but not rotate it.

 

Anyhow, not much of an issue for me either way. I've enjoyed games utilizing both camera choices.


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That said, I wouldn't be opposed to some minor zooming controls.

 

Well, if we can at least get that, I'll be happy.

 

I didn't know that scrolling the mouse wheel was a such a HUGE issue for self proclaimed veteran gamers, but whatever.

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I myself prefer to have moveable cameras. I've played some games that did it well, and others that didn't. the ones that did it well did it one of 2 ways.

1. more of an action style game play (ie witcher) which won't work well for this being an party base game

2. where you could zoom in/out any time you wanted and walls/ceilings/trees/etc became translucent if they were blocking the character, and there was view angle adjustment, but if you started moving, it would slowly revert back to a default view angle that the devs chose.

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