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Realistic hunger, thirst, fatigue, sleep


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Food and drink could be something you came across just like everyone you meet carrying gold and the occasional gemstone; random loot, and most shops would sell supply it. Depending on how the inventory will be set up you can either have food and drink items be all sorts of things like a flask of brandy or a bowl of porridge, if items were to take up space in your inventory based on their seize, but if your items, be it a chest plate or a ring, just takes up one slot, then you'd rater have drink and food represented as a single stackable item, as in a ration.

 

I think food and drink is an easy way of increasing the immersion in the the game, since it is something we all can relate to very closely, but if it is to make it into a game it needs to fill a purpose. I think hunger bars and such might be a too contrived way of doing that, but one Idea could be to use it as a way to get rid of the sleep/rest-abuse and have food and drink, or rations, be consumed every time you made camp, just like in Betrayal at Krondor as Nakia said.

 

The amount of food and drink, or number of rations, that were consumed each time you made camp would best be based on how big the party is. If your companions have their own inventory then they would each consume from there.

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I'm all for there being an optional (hardcore) mode, with a balanced amount of management needed. Food would be consumed automatically (perhaps when the characters rest to regain health and such), and you only need to make sure you have enough in your inventory.

 

Perhaps (just perhaps) different companions could have different preferences, so carrying whatever they like the most could affect morale or interpersonal relationships in a positive manner. Wouldn't want it to get too complicated, though.

Something stirs within...

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I would kill for a "Hardcore" system that is intrinsic to the system. What I mean by that is that it should not be in Fallout: New Vegas. In FONV, it was "glued on" and optional. It was well done, but ultimately, the game didn't truly accomodate it.

 

A "Hardcore" system should be fully integrated into the game and not optional. It should be planned for and taken into account at every turn, making inns matter and food - when appropriate - scarce.

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I hate this level of realism in games, I mean if it's optional, like you can turn it on/off in the settings or something like that, I don't mind at all of course, but to have to go through it by force, is so unpleasant...

I've never played any Infinity Engine Games before but I'm very interested, though I've played the opening level in the first Fallout

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Ya mount and blade handled it well. This could also be used to avoid people running back to town after every single fight. (either to sell gear or to rest safely or w/e)

 

There was no busywork involved with M&B's system, you could just buy some bread when you were in town and it would slowly go down over time.

Edited by NoxNoctum
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Hunger/thirst are pointless in games where survivalism is not the goal. Sleep can work just like an ultimate powers refresher and fatique should affect fights/sprinting.

 

No more realism in this regard is needed.

Edited by Smejki
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If it was toggleble like in FONV - sure.

 

As a mandatory requirement...well nothing is as unfun to me, personally, in a game as having to carry a ton of water and food around to travel 10 feet. Mind you this could just be left over trauma from my wagon train always ending up dying of exhaustion or dysentary in OREGON TRAIL too...

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Could be done in a Mount&Blade-fashion. You don't have to micro-manage your party by making them eat all the time, but you do have to bring food in your inventory. This takes up inventory-space. As time goes by, the amount of food decreases automaticly. If you run out, companions are pissed off. Or you die (if you want it to be done that way).

Yeah, that was a tolerable mechanic in that game. Took out much of the micro-managing so it wasn't about having to individually click to give each person an actual apple or something. The only irritation I had with it was I thought they made the rate of consumption a bit high as your army number went up. I know it's "realistic" that a huge army would be eating a lot of food, but sometimes in M&B I ended up carrying around 5 stacks of 5 different foods - because of the morale bonus I think it was - and I'd still have to replenish it/check it far too often for my liking. :lol:

 

So either hunger/food management should (imo) be a very slow process (don't want to carry around 10 stacks of food....) or an optional toggle, as some have suggested.

“Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts
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I think the reason why hardcore mode worked in New Vegas was because it was understandable why food and water would be rare. In most RPGs it is assumed that water is readily available and rations are lightweight and inexpensive enough to not need to be tracked manually. If something does come up regarding food and water I would prefer it to be as part of a specific situation (lost at sea, crossing a desert) rather than a meter that needs to be monitored constantly in-game.

This. I just can't say it better.

 

I like this as well.

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It'll not add something tedious, it would solve something tedious; a problem that the creators have directly addressed.

 

Automatically consuming rations when you rest/sleep is a creative way of doing so, I would argue.

 

Exactly. I think it would be an elegant solution to both the run back to town to rest problem and the run back to town to offload loot problem.

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I hate all those hunger, thirst, sleep mechanics introduced in games. Why ? Because it kills flow of the game for me if it's forced. Sure there could be option to take your party to the inn or make a camp if there is demand. But caring about hunger etc is just Sims alike.

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Big vote for yes, couldn't play New Vegas without hardcore mode now.

Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.

I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin.

 

Tea for the teapot!

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But it would be a nice solution to the sleep/rest-abuse without being a burden.

 

 

Abuse? Why should you or anyone else care about what other people do in their own game sessions?

 

It'll not add something tedious, it would solve something tedious; a problem that the creators have directly addressed.

 

Automatically consuming rations when you rest/sleep is a creative way of doing so, I would argue.

 

Can you elaborate? I fail to see how it solves something tedious.

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Sure, we'll be given the option to place a stick of deodorant in our inventories for quick use... right next to our stack of wolf pelts, our vials of troll blood, our containers of ghoul essence, and of course, that Bandit chief's head we're hauling back to town for the bounty reward. lol

Edited by Stun
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I hate all those hunger, thirst, sleep mechanics introduced in games. Why ? Because it kills flow of the game for me if it's forced. Sure there could be option to take your party to the inn or make a camp if there is demand. But caring about hunger etc is just Sims alike.

Having food or rations doesn't necessarily mean adding anything like hunger or fatigue (that's just contrived). If you read what I've posted just a page back you'll see an example of how it could be done.

But it would be a nice solution to the sleep/rest-abuse without being a burden.

 

 

Abuse? Why should you or anyone else care about what other people do in their own game sessions?

 

It'll not add something tedious, it would solve something tedious; a problem that the creators have directly addressed.

 

Automatically consuming rations when you rest/sleep is a creative way of doing so, I would argue.

 

Can you elaborate? I fail to see how it solves something tedious.

 

First question: I do not care how other people play, But the guys at Obsidian apparently does. I, on the other hand, only care how I play myself. Instant full HP, MP, and spell regain, all for free and unlimited use is just lame.

Second question: As I said to Virgil, I explained earlier in this thread: Let's say there was a common item called "ration" that you could buy at most shops or loot off of killed enemies, and your party consumed one or more of these every time you rested or slept. You'd still be allowed to do it whenever you wanted and how often you wanted but it wouldn't free, and it wouldn't unlimited, and certainly not lame; no hunger bars, no fatigue, just a simple and elegant solution to a problem the developers and many players have underlined.

Edited by AutoReiv
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I like the automatic idea, if you camp you eat. If you go to an inn you can buy food and again rest and eat. It can and has been done subtly. There does not have to be any micro management. If you have a residence again it is an automatic feature. While the game is fiction and a certain amount of suspension of disbelief is involved I still like it when the characters act like real people. I also like in BaK that enemies sometimes fled.

 I have but one enemy: myself  - Drow saying


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AutoReiv I understand your potion of view, but for me it will be always somehow forced. Why don't introduce showers, toilets etc it is also part of everyday life. Carrying supplies of food is realistic but it usually doesn't work. I'd rather leave it all to imagination

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From my experience in both CRPGs and PnP, enforcing hunger, thirst, and fatigue only works in specific parts of the game where hunger, thirst, and fatigue are meant to provide a challenge. If used indiscriminately, these mechanics merely serve to artificially increase gameplay length by turning party management into a sucky Tamagochi minigame.

 

So, hunger, thirst, and fatigue can work if used sparingly and in appropriate portions of the game. But I'd hate to see having to feed my party throughout the whole game.

There are no doors in Jefferson that are "special game locked" doors. There are no characters in that game that you can kill that will result in the game ending prematurely.

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