Do we want elves and dwarves?

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I want dwarves because it feels like they haven't been done well lately.

 

I loved the Arcanum dwarves.

 

I can live without elves.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Moonlight Butterfly

[LadySpace]

I want whatever races form the culture of the world they've developed.

 

This is a perspective that isn't getting enough attention. If the rest of the game winds up meshing best with traditional fantasy races, then that's all fine and dandy. If the design of the game and lore turn out to work better with something more outlandish or innovative, then please please please don't just default to the standard races. Even if it results in some people being alienated by the strangeness of the world, having the racial selection fit the rest of the game in atmosphere, tone, social order, and so forth is far more important than sticking to the elf/dwarf conflict just for old times' sake.

 

That said, all else being equal, I'll definitely vote for non-traditional races. I like my fantasy with a dash of spice.

Edited September 17, 2012 by LadySpace

[NoxNoctum]

Haha ya seriously I hope they aren't paying too much attention to the fans and just do something that makes sense in the context of the game they want to make.

[Elthosian]

I would prefer not having them in the game, I want some original stuff, who doesn't? Give me some non-humanoid races, too, variety should be priority!

[dknight99]

I'm not particular fond of Elves and Dwarfs anymore mainly because they add so little and have been done to death in video games. I rather they just all be humans but with their own cultural quirks.

[Korron]

We have a group of designers here that have a collected history of bringing originality to worn out genres. Sick of fantasy RPGs? A post apocalyptic RPG! Want spice in your fantasy game? A steampunk victorian setting! Why do rats have to be the entry level monster for every RPG? Let's make them one of the strongest enemies in the game! While I believe this group can make dwarves and elves more interesting than they have been in the past, I also believe that we have a rare opportunity to encourage these designers to really stretch the limits of their imagination. I believe they have the talent to make new unique races with culture that I would want to learn more about, and I think it's a great starting point for letting them really challenge the status quo of what we expect a fantasy setting to be. I was willing to risk money on their kickstarter project, and I am willing to take the risk of letting them do something truly new. Because, honestly, who else could do a better job of it?

[licketysplit]

I hated elves and dwarves until I played the Witcher games. Then I realized it's not the trope that matters, but the treatment. So if Obsidian can try a new angle, I'm fine with both races.

Edited September 17, 2012 by licketysplit

[aluminiumtrioxid]

I like them, but prefer them in a subverted, non-traditional form

 

I would like to see some suggestions, seeing that this seems to be the most popular option atm.

 

 

I actually like the idea of "demon elves". Combined with the traditional tree-hugging aspect, they could look normal at first glance, but if seriously threatened, transform into something between a treant and an alien (you know, branches, skin as bark, perhaps tentacles, and the whole thing oozing black mucus...). They could wield magics related to wild, ever-growing life (along the line of unstoppable growth) and/or death/decomposition. Dual aspect of nature, and all that.

 

Not like it's original, or the devs would be very likely to be able to use it, but a cool idea, which hasn't been represented in a video game yet.

[dknight99]

I like them, but prefer them in a subverted, non-traditional form

 

I would like to see some suggestions, seeing that this seems to be the most popular option atm.

 

 

I actually like the idea of "demon elves". Combined with the traditional tree-hugging aspect, they could look normal at first glance, but if seriously threatened, transform into something between a treant and an alien (you know, branches, skin as bark, perhaps tentacles, and the whole thing oozing black mucus...). They could wield magics related to wild, ever-growing life (along the line of unstoppable growth) and/or death/decomposition. Dual aspect of nature, and all that.

 

Not like it's original, or the devs would be very likely to be able to use it, but a cool idea, which hasn't been represented in a video game yet.

 

That's a little bit like Dark Elves no? I mean the whole evil elves thing. In forgotten realms they have the matriach and have slaves and do unelfy stuff. It's cool and all but it has been done before. At the end I keep asking myself what makes evil elves different from just very bad humans with pointy ears? Or hippy humans tree huggers with pointy ears?

[Suen]

Traditional.

Because I dread the imagine of a whole race of slim, tall dwarves, without beard and moderate drinkers.

Give me the traditional dwarves, and I'll be happy even if they wear space suits and use laser weapons.

 

I like the idea of "elf" and "dwarf". But it's a malleable idea, and the universe where they live is what must forge them.

I don't care for subversion when it's done just for the sake of making something different, in the end it's like swapping a clich

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

That's a little bit like Dark Elves no? I mean the whole evil elves thing. In forgotten realms they have the matriach and have slaves and do unelfy stuff. It's cool and all but it has been done before. At the end I keep asking myself what makes evil elves different from just very bad humans with pointy ears? Or hippy humans tree huggers with pointy ears?

 

Nope

 

They are the "nature-loving" trope taken to the extremes. Perhaps their superior elfy traits are tied to it, and outside of their forests, their longevity and physical/mental superiority are dwindling. (That would explain both why they are so protective of said forests, and why do they take a small bit of it with themselves wherever they go - thus the treant form).

I imagine them as an embodiment of the savage aspect of nature so often overlooked in fantasy. As apex predators in their natural habitat. It has nothing to do with evil, nor with being a tree-hugging hippie

[ajdamnit]

I like the elves and dwarves in whatever form they are but I also want new races, like the kossith (qunari) for example. There will surely be a need for new races even if not playable and i'm positive the game designers will come up with great ideas.

I'm thinking, for example, for something like a humanoid (of course :D ) race but with no gender (they are neither male not female), they are not very different from humans. They have their own culture, religion, abilities, language, physical pluses and minuses. I'm just throwing ideas here, they just reproduce with nature's help, having some sort of plant-like-nest where they "throw" their "seeds" and in a few weeks/ months "babies" hatch. They are tribe based creatures and very protective of their nest especially when a new batch of them are about to hatch. But they can still adapt to human society, like using human weapons etc. I'll stop here because. you get the idea.

Really excited about this project. I had ideas of my own about a ( way smaller) kickstarter project of my own about a classical fantasy rpg in a baldur's gate style . A real fan here.

Best of luck!

[Yaskaleh]

I love dwarves and elves, I seek out rpgs that uses them. Thoguh I do not mind seeing them in new shapes but it kinda depends on how they do them. For example, the elves and dwarves of Dragon Age I was solid, though I do love my elves in a less enslaved matter. Dragon Age II failed brutally when it comes to the elves.

 

What has always drawn me to elves are the combination of intelligence, magic, knowledge, stoicism, dexterity and agility over brutish strength. Best example of this is the High elves of Warhammer.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Yaskaleh

[Astanas]

I want crab people and changelings. What's the point of playing fantasy games when every person you meet is a human with added features? Boring. Give me something new and interesting please.

[Rostere]

It would be nice to see the 'traditional' races, but taken more to extremes.

 

Take elves for example: generally tall, lithe, mysterious forest dwellers, often distrusted by humans. Why not expand on that and instead of having them as tall, pretty, magical versions of humans, focus more on the strange and alien aspect of them. Imagine a cross between 'greys' and Slenderman. Tall, terrifiying creatures that live in the forest and are hardly ever seen, but are known from stories to abduct travellers.

 

Dwarves could almost be living stone. Imagine the scene from Aliens where they're walking through the corridors and we see the xenomorphs coming out of the walls, but make the walls stone and the xenomorphs short, rocky humanoids.

 

The races wouldn't necessarily be malevolent, but they also wouldn't necessarily have the same thought processes and morals as humans.

 

Just my $0.02

 

Those are actually pretty good ideas!

[Yaskaleh]

It would be nice to see the 'traditional' races, but taken more to extremes.

 

Take elves for example: generally tall, lithe, mysterious forest dwellers, often distrusted by humans. Why not expand on that and instead of having them as tall, pretty, magical versions of humans, focus more on the strange and alien aspect of them. Imagine a cross between 'greys' and Slenderman. Tall, terrifiying creatures that live in the forest and are hardly ever seen, but are known from stories to abduct travellers.

 

Dwarves could almost be living stone. Imagine the scene from Aliens where they're walking through the corridors and we see the xenomorphs coming out of the walls, but make the walls stone and the xenomorphs short, rocky humanoids.

 

The races wouldn't necessarily be malevolent, but they also wouldn't necessarily have the same thought processes and morals as humans.

 

Just my $0.02

 

Those are actually pretty good ideas!

 

The problem with that is that you probably would push away those who are fans of elves and dwarves. Wouldn't it be better to have new races who are like these changes instead?

[Smejki]

It's not like I wouldn't like traditional races. I dislike stereotypes - elves are charming, singing, living among trees and best magicians while dwarves are small bearded miners who hate elves and fight with axe or hammer. Just look at The Witcher games/books - traditional races in nontraditional positions. Use these traditional views only if you use traditionall universes (I love LOTR and would hate anyone changing it into Arcanum) but when you make new universe, come up with something original - new races, new roles and relations of the old ones.

[Volourn]

There's absolutely nothing original about Twitcher elves and dwarves.

[Smejki]

There's absolutely nothing original about Twitcher elves and dwarves.

where did you hide the explanation?

[Domigorgon]

Traditionally, it's like this:

Humans - average, middle ground, reference point. They can be good at anything if they so desire.

Elves - magical, long-lived, in tune with nature (and magic). They like songs and culture and live in forests.

Dwarves - short but sturdy, deft craftsmen and prud warriors.

 

Change the names and retain everything else, you're still stuck with stereotypes. But come up with something totally alien, and you... well, alienate your audience. Fantasy and science-fiction races (think Star Trek, for example), are not really that alien. They're just specialized humans (Klingons are a warrior race, Vulcans are logical, Hirogen are hunters, etc.). But not all of them must behave that way (main characters often break away, like Worf or Spock). Because when they get some screen time, they become individuals; no longer are they subject to stereotype.

 

Personally, I'd prefer it if Obsidian came up with totally new races (they did say in their stretch goals "new races", it'd be a bit of a rip-off if that meant "another race we snatched from D&D"). Qunari in DA were a good example; too bad that there was only one in the original game (I didn't play the 'sequel'). But to create a race they must decide the overall theme and keep it in tune with the game world.

 

They said they wanted to explore mature themes. Racial issues, slavery and genocide come to mind. All races living in harmony and peace together? Puh-lease. Humans can't stand people who like a different football team.

 

Some relevant topics at TV-Tropes:

- our monsters are different

- our elves are better

- humans are bastards

[dlux]

If they do add elves and dwarves in a "subverted, non-traditional form", then they better not mess up the elves like BioWare did with them in Dragon Age. The dwarves were interesting and well done, but the elves just sucked - they were just a bunch of uninteresting little whining losers.

 

There's absolutely nothing original about Twitcher elves and dwarves.

There is also nothing original about making a high fantasy game with swords, metal armor, magic, etc.

Edited September 17, 2012 by dlux

[obyknven]

Do want non-humanoid races.

[Elerond]

In my opinion it would do only good for game use existing archtypes for races, because inventing arctypes which we have never seen before is hard and time consumptive and rarely till produce anything really new and especially anything forth all that work. Much faster and easier route is take existing archtypes and give them some twist what makes your world to look different from other fantasy/sci-fi/etc. worlds. But on the other hand I don't want see another Forgotten Realms which have absolute everything what you can or can't think about and then more, variety is good but some time it can go over the top.

 

One thing what I wouldn't want see is that races are divined to good, bad and neutral. I think every race should have different agendas and philosophy, which gives them to different perspectives and ideologies about good and evil. And every race of course should have good and bad apples (those who live full on for race's ideology is good apple and those who broke this ideologies are bad apples) . Addition for that every race should have several different nationalities, which can have different ideologies, for example human nation 1, elven nation 2 and orc nation 5 could have nearly similar philosophy about life whereas dwarf nation 1,, elven nation 1, succubus and incubus (or demon) nation and human nations 3, 87, 177 have similar belifs, philosophies and agendas. And some factions in game could consist from these groups with same ideologies (of course same ideology don't always mean peaceful coexistence, as nations who see them better than others probably have very volatile relations with other nations with similar beliefs).

 

And it would nice to see also nations like Australia or USA where old European nations dumb their lesser criminals and other folk which nation leaders didn't like and where all fortune hunters go find their luck or market towns like Venice, L

[Troller]

No need for so many options in a pool, we can make another one with with less options, my suggestion would be:

Traditional RPG races (dwarf, elf, orc)

Hurr We want differant racis

Traditional races but with a twist

[The Sharmat]

Alternatively, if elves and dwarves aren't terribly different from humans, why can't there be one or two multi-racial civilizations? Rome was a rather cosmopolitan place, for example.