Dear Obsidian, don't listen to the crowd. Make the game as you have planned it.

[Altarf]

Dear Obsidian, don't listen to the crowd. Make the game as you have planned it. Make it as you'll love it.

 

There are some awful ideas on this board. Please stay true to the spirit of the games you use for inspiration: Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale and Planescape: Torment. Do your best to revive the great experience these games have been in the past.

 

I trust you and you alone know what is best for Project Eternity. People in your team have made great games - games that set the standards in the RPG industry. Listen to the gamers but don't let them decide for you. You are the pro's! I'm 100% certain that people contribute to your Kickstarter not because the want to play a game they've designed, but to play a game that YOU have created - your concept, your ideas, your execution!

 

Wish you luck!

[Darji]

Dear Obsidian, don't listen to the crowd. Make the game as you have planned it. Make it as you'll love it.

 

There are some awful ideas on this board. Please stay true to the spirit of the games you use for inspiration: Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale and Planescape: Torment. Do your best to revive the great experience these games have been in the past.

 

I trust you and you alone know what is best for Project Eternity. People in your team have made great games - games that set the standards in the RPG industry. Listen to the gamers but don't let them decide for you. You are the pro's! I'm 100% certain that people contribute to your Kickstarter not because the want to play a game they've designed, but to play a game that YOU have created - your concept, your ideas, your execution!

 

Wish you luck!

totally agree with that. Obsidian is one of the few I totally trust for story, characters, design and RPG mechanics. Please make the game you wanted to create from the beginning. Edited September 15, 2012 by Darji

[Monte Carlo]

They'll do 95% of what they want to do, which I'm cool with.

 

Then they'll listen to us for maybe the other 5%, with a pinch of salt. Which I'm cool with.

 

What I'm not cool with is your assertion that dialogue with fans / customers / the community is essentially pointless.

[Uomoz]

Can't agree more. I'm sick tired of communities bashing games (see metacritic brawls). Just make your game and I'll just play the crap out of it.

[Posbi]

Just because there are some retarded ideas floating around doesn't mean Obsidian should shut their ears to the fans' input...

[OldRPG'sAreGood]

I couldn't help myself, read that with Irenicus' voice....

 

But, to the topic at hand:

 

Although I agree that Obsidian should do this game as they plan/ned, I think that picking up ideas and suggestions from their customer base or at least interaction that might lead to some twists in the game design is important, as I believe that "writers blindness" to their own work might apply to game developing as well, and that's where the fan community helps.

[Monte Carlo]

As long as all the nubs here aren't refugees from the Bio boards then we'll be OK. If not...

[Tale]

I think part of the idea here is that they'll pander to the backers a bit. That said, pandering to me partially includes challenging me. Turn some of the things I expect on their head, either fundamentally or as a sidequest.

[Infinitron]

Don't freak out too much. Yes, these forums are going to be infested for a month or two. The same thing happened with Wasteland 2.

 

In the end, the kiddies move on and the smart posters remain to work with the developers and give them good ideas. That also happened with Wasteland 2.

[Littlefinger]

Listening to the ideas and suggestions of the fanbase is fine as long as it's just that - listening. If Obsidian finds something they like, they should implement that, but as soon as listening to the fans becomes pandering to them, the project is compromised to become a mismatched pile of conflicting ideas.

[patboy12]

I agree with the man on top. Make this game with YOUR ideas in mind. Do not listen to this board for anything other than small idea's. I want a game designed by the people who made the classics I love. Not by a bunch of amateurs with differing opinions. Unless there is a STRONG opposition to one of your decisions then don't take too much heed at the stuff spilling from here.

[LadyCrimson]

I trust the team to know how to listen without being actually led, if that makes sense.

[LadySpace]

I trust the team to know how to listen without being actually led, if that makes sense.

 

I trust them, too, but I also know that frequent fan interaction, updates, and due consideration to outside ideas tend to wind up lending perspective and wisdom to the decision-making process. The fandom should be involved, not in the idea generation process, but in the idea verification and clarification process. Trust but verify, I guess.

[Skyhawk02]

I agree with the sentiment of this thread, I want to play something that is unique and surprising, not play a game that is just the average of everybody's different and conflicting ideas, there are already plenty of games like that, they just feel like a huge compromise.

[Longknife]

That said, pandering to me partially includes challenging me.

 

This. And yeah, take suggestions with a grain of salt, obviously. Sometimes players simply don't know what's good for them and can't understand how, for example, limitations can be a good thing. As an example, I remember a certain Youtube video where a guy was livid that a New Vegas patch fixed an infinite money glitch and locked the door to the Abandoned BoS Bunker and he thought it was dumb. There's also complaints like "omg we couldn't go north!" which, tbh the solution would be to make Deathclaws level with the player or NOT spawn at all until the player is ready, but that opens up an entirely new can of worms: I for one hate late-game combat in FO3 for that very reason, because nothing but HP-heavy enemies spawn nonstop and literally just waste my time, whereas I feel less progression overall because enemies are constantly getting stronger WITH me and I have no goal to work for. Clearing out the Quarry gave the player a sense of accomplishment.

Other times it's just incredibly bland, generic ideas that tend to pop up, like "omg Obsidian make the player character a super saiyan 7 vampire overlord who can destroy the planet if he blinks and also he's an angsty teen and his parents don't understand him and he's a dark tormented soul that women wanna get close to but he's too dangerous to love."

 

 

Basically, people should ask themselves what the alternative is when they make a suggestion or lodge a complaint. Sometimes things sound good on paper or in theory, but work terribly in practice. Likewise, Obsidian needs to avoid clich

[Sammael]

Fan input is a double-edged sword: if you listen to the fans too much, you may steer away from your original idea and deliver something that you are not 100% behind. On the other hand, if you don't listen to the fans at all, you may be out of touch with what your customers actually want.

 

Probably the best approach is to take the ideas you already have and pitch them to the public to see their reactions. Josh did this for several aspects of IWD2, and I believe it ultimately helped the game become something more than a mere IWD expansion pack (as originally envisioned by Feargus).

[NateOwns]

Dear Obsidian, don't listen to the crowd. Make the game as you have planned it. Make it as you'll love it.

 

There are some awful ideas on this board. Please stay true to the spirit of the games you use for inspiration: Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale and Planescape: Torment. Do your best to revive the great experience these games have been in the past.

 

I trust you and you alone know what is best for Project Eternity. People in your team have made great games - games that set the standards in the RPG industry. Listen to the gamers but don't let them decide for you. You are the pro's! I'm 100% certain that people contribute to your Kickstarter not because the want to play a game they've designed, but to play a game that YOU have created - your concept, your ideas, your execution!

 

Wish you luck!

totally agree with that. Obsidian is one of the few I totally trust for story, characters, design and RPG mechanics. Please make the game you wanted to create from the beginning.

Honestly I trust them with everything except endings. I feel like they have ever really done endings to games exceptionally well, dating all the way back to KoTOR II.....

[kobold]

Totally agree with the OP. I sincerely hope that the devs take this tremendous financial support as a vote of confidence in THEIR artistic vision, and not as some sort of unholy contract with the shrieking spirits of the forum, in which all manner of incongruous and hideous nonsense is inserted. Design by committee? God, I hope not...

[Volourn]

They should make the game they ultimately want but listening to what fans want isn't a bad thing. Obviously, in the end, they need to filter the good ideas from the bad based on their perception not yours or mine.

 

If someone posts an idea that Obsidian likes that you don't tough luck for you. If you post an idea that Obsidian dislikes tough luck for you. Suck it up, and don't whine about it.

[Infinitron]

Don't get too freaked out. The forums will be infested for the next month or two. No way to avoid that. The same thing happened with Wasteland 2.

 

But the game is being released in 2014. Eventually all the kids will move on, and only the smartest, most dedicated fans will remain to work with Obsidian and give their expert feedback. This also happened with Wasteland 2.

Edited September 15, 2012 by Infinitron

[The Sharmat]

I know they'll listen to fans. Listening is not agreeing, though. I trust them to take the good ideas and discard the bad for the most part.

 

Just remember: Consumers don't always know what they actually want. In my example, Mass Effect spoilers follow. be warned:

 

My very first playthrough of Mass Effect, I did the Virmire mission as soon as it became available instead of doing the last of the starter planets and sidequests. Hey, it seemed urgent.

 

This meant that I didn't do Wrex's sidequest. And since I'd been roleplaying instead of gaming the system, I didn't have enough paragon/renegade points to persuade him not to betray me. So Ashley shot him. By the time the mission was over I'd lost two party members, and even though it was a Bioware game I was actually worried that the end game would see all my characters picked off one by one. It was sad, yes. But it was tense, suspenseful, exciting, and FUN. Of course for further playthroughs I made sure that Wrex survived instead of taking the plunge and sticking to my "failure" for the rest of the series, which ended with me cheating myself from even more content. Game's are made to be won, and this cognitive bias leaks into narrative based games such that many of us simply can't help but chicken out and redo a segment when a choice proves suboptimal, even if it makes the story less interesting.

 

This extends to all forms of fiction. People hate seeing favorite characters killed off. But they LOVE to hate it.

[Volourn]

"Eventually all the kids will move on, and only the smartest, most dedicated fans will remain to work with Obsidian and give their expert feedback. "

 

This has got to be sarcasm. It just has to be because I simply can't take what I just read seriously. L0L

[Infinitron]

"Eventually all the kids will move on, and only the smartest, most dedicated fans will remain to work with Obsidian and give their expert feedback. "

 

This has got to be sarcasm. It just has to be because I simply can't take what I just read seriously. L0L

 

You're right. The smartest, most dedicated fans...and Volourn.

[J.E. Sawyer]

Good ideas are good ideas, no matter where they come from. There are certain things we feel passionate about pursuing and there are other things that we are more neutral on. Often fan input into those more neutral areas (e.g. fantasy "flavor", types of races/classes, etc.) is actually very useful.

[Volourn]

DEV SIGHTING! Are dwarves in?

Edited September 16, 2012 by Volourn