Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

[entrerix]

i've decided to put skyrim away for a while. im about 140 hours into it, with 7 different characters. i think a nice 6month-yearlong break will be good, the dlc/expansion stuff will be out and i'll be able to go into it with refreshed eyes.

 

time to start working on my backlog again... or just replay FF7 or something for the 10th time lol

[Meshugger]

So the creation kits been out a few days, and apparently due to the 'new engine' it doesn't work as well. Anything wrong causes the game to crash even if the error isn't being used.

 

If Beth has hobbled Skyrim modablility, that's a disappointment.

 

Nooooo

 

The mods where one the best things with the Elder Scrolls series.

[Rosbjerg]

There are still a lot of mods released and being worked on ..

[Enoch]

I may start messing around with Skyrim this weekend.

 

Is there any kind of consensus-best on the UI mods yet?

[WorstUsernameEver]

I may start messing around with Skyrim this weekend.

 

Is there any kind of consensus-best on the UI mods yet?

 

SkyUI seemed to be getting all the praise. I don't know if it's still supported though, the last patch broke it, but there's been plenty of time and the modding community it's in its most active period so I'd imagine they must have fixed that already.

[Rosbjerg]

It's actually pretty great and It is fixed, but you need the script extender so every time a new patch comes it takes a few days before it works properly again.

[WDeranged]

Some DLC info, sounds like we're getting some of that gamejam stuff

[HoonDing]

Hopefully with the smaller scope of DLCs, they can add some quests with actual depth.

[Walsingham]

The companion mod looked interesting. Changed their combat AI and spruced their looks.

[Rosbjerg]

"Because that gap is going to be bigger, we want to put little things out for free in between. We've already done that for PC with the high-res pack. We're trying to figure out what those things are."

 

I'm beginning to like Bethesda..

[GhostofAnakin]

I still have trouble getting over the fact the dragons are so easy to kill, and do absolutely no damage to me, while some of the lesser enemies give me trouble.

 

Other than that, I'm enjoying the combat in the game.

[HoonDing]

The "dragon" is ridiculously easy, yeah. But as you level up, they should go dragon -> frost dragon -> blood dragon -> elder dragon -> ancient dragon.

[GhostofAnakin]

The "dragon" is ridiculously easy, yeah. But as you level up, they should go dragon -> frost dragon -> blood dragon -> elder dragon -> ancient dragon.

 

The highest I've faced so far is a blood dragon. And like the regular dragon, it wasn't a challenge at all. They take a bit longer to kill, but the damage they do to me is still minimal. I'll usually have about 90% health remaining after a confrontation with a blood dragon.

 

Meanwhile, I got my ass handed to me by some mage that took like half my health with one frost spell, and made me use my entire inventory of health potions just to be able to stay alive long enough to finally kill him.

[Humanoid]

Different experience for me as a stealther with no archery skill at all - at level 40-odd the higher level dragons squish me pretty fast so I mostly resort to avoiding them/running away. The problem with stealth killing everything is that the sneak skill got up to 100 while one-hand skill was barely 40 and light armor skill half of that again. Of course it's not just the sneak but the associated pickpocket that is doing me in levelwise.

 

I can get by on the quest dragons and such by liberal chain-quaffing of drugs but it's tedious. I could try to alleviate that by learning alchemy so the potions would be worth a damn but then that'd cause even more level scaling issues. (Also carry weight issues, which frustrated me enough such that I went ahead and cheated to set the capacity at 2000.)

 

I know that with the "right" build even the hardest things are trivial but a flat boost to difficulty would make it unplayable for others. Not sure what the solution would be other than coupling the scaling to a subset of skills (exclude lockpicking, speech, etc) rather than by level. This is on default difficulty for what it's worth.

[BobSmith101]

Different experience for me as a stealther with no archery skill at all - at level 40-odd the higher level dragons squish me pretty fast so I mostly resort to avoiding them/running away. The problem with stealth killing everything is that the sneak skill got up to 100 while one-hand skill was barely 40 and light armor skill half of that again. Of course it's not just the sneak but the associated pickpocket that is doing me in levelwise.

 

I can get by on the quest dragons and such by liberal chain-quaffing of drugs but it's tedious. I could try to alleviate that by learning alchemy so the potions would be worth a damn but then that'd cause even more level scaling issues. (Also carry weight issues, which frustrated me enough such that I went ahead and cheated to set the capacity at 2000.)

 

I know that with the "right" build even the hardest things are trivial but a flat boost to difficulty would make it unplayable for others. Not sure what the solution would be other than coupling the scaling to a subset of skills (exclude lockpicking, speech, etc) rather than by level. This is on default difficulty for what it's worth.

 

Disclaimer I have not played the game.

 

However after reading both yours and GOA's posts I don't really see that much of a problem. He's having an easy time with something , ok it's a dragon and it should feel like a fight because his character has the right sort of build. Mages kick his ass because he has the wrong sort of build for fighting mages.

 

On the other hand your character is not built for fighting dragons, but probably has no problem killing mages ?

 

Without knowing why the Dragons are so easy for GOA it's hard to pin down. But two characters with different builds finding different things easy/hard. That seems like good RPG design to me.

Edited February 18, 2012 by BobSmith101

[Humanoid]

I have trouble killing anything if I don't catch them with the (almost ridiculous) 15x damage multiplier for sneak attack. At one point I ended up having to travel by night just to avoid random nasties - or just wildlife. It's not a matter of which archetype one chooses but rather the fact enemies scale indiscriminately.

 

I'd have a relatively easy time being a stealth assassin for example, but I'd have a hard time being a stealth assassin who happens to also be good at pickpocketing - because the skill in pickpocketing although useless in combat causes the enemies to level up.

 

It's more true of some skills than others - the category of skill that makes you weaker includes the aforementioned pickpocket, along with speech and lockpicking. Some are marginal, in that they indirectly give combat advantages to offset the higher level enemies, such as smithing, enchanting and alchemy - which if (ab)used correctly can be the dominant stats in the game. Indeed the latter two are the best for taking down mages because you can stack resistances against their spells - and there are no restrictions regarding changing in and out of gear during combat.

Edited February 18, 2012 by Humanoid

[BobSmith101]

Sounds a lot like Oblivion which was easier to finish at level 5 than at level 30 (or was it 20..). I'm not a big fan of scaling it hardly ever works as intended. I'm quite entranced with KOA at the moment. The combat system is all combo/action based and now I'm finally an Archmage I really feel like one. In one encounter I got attacked by about 10 guys , called down a meteor storm and killed 8 followed up with lightning and vapourised the other two.

You never really get that feeling with scaling and the combat tends to get easy because you somehow broke it (or you dead end yourself via your build) rather than because you feel like you have earned that power.

[Walsingham]

The "dragon" is ridiculously easy, yeah. But as you level up, they should go dragon -> frost dragon -> blood dragon -> elder dragon -> ancient dragon.

 

The highest I've faced so far is a blood dragon. And like the regular dragon, it wasn't a challenge at all. They take a bit longer to kill, but the damage they do to me is still minimal. I'll usually have about 90% health remaining after a confrontation with a blood dragon.

 

Meanwhile, I got my ass handed to me by some mage that took like half my health with one frost spell, and made me use my entire inventory of health potions just to be able to stay alive long enough to finally kill him.

 

ALWAYS kill the mage first.

 

[Humanoid]

I loathed Oblivion (only played maybe 3-5 hours total) whereas I've played this about ten times that amount so it's an improvement - but yeah, going too far off the beaten path in terms of character development will mess you up. If you engage in combat normally (unlike me, who barely needs to swing and never generally takes damage) it generally isn't a huge issue.

 

I believe how it works is that unlike Oblivion you don't get a 1:1 levelling of each enemy type. Instead it's a stepped system where once you hit a certain level, a diifferent creature becomes available to be spawned. So in a bandit's den if you head in at level 1, all you get are "Bandits" which are by definition level 1. If you head in at level 5 you probably still only get the same. Once you hit level 10 (as an example), the random generator starts producing "Bandit Thugs" (in a mix, some low level ones continue to be generated) which are much tougher.

 

At a meta-level, the worst possible outcome would be for a character to, fresh out of the Temple of Trials, go to the first town and engage in some kleptomania - at which point you end up a level 10-20 character with level 1 ability to fight and survive fighting level ~20 enemies. The only way out of that hole will probably be to buy skill training funded by said crime spree - but you'd have to finagle a bit to gain access to fences at that early stage of the game.

 

 

 

Further there are some anomalies due to certain monster types having a minimum and maximum level. Notably the minimum level dragon is, I believe, lower than the minimum level bear - resulting in the former being easier to dispatch until you reach a certain level. It also creates the infamous scenario in which (because creatures in the game can attack each other) a bear easily crushes a dragon in single combat.

Edited February 18, 2012 by Humanoid

[GhostofAnakin]

Just for a bit of clarification, do the enemies level to your character's overall level? Or do they level to your character's combat associated skills levels?

 

For instance, I'm at Level 25 as a character, but things like my one-handed attack skill is up to like level 64, my speech skill is up to level 55, light armor up to level 64, etc. Does the fact those skills are that much higher than my actual character level have any impact on the enemies' level that I face?

[Desert Ranger]

Just for a bit of clarification, do the enemies level to your character's overall level? Or do they level to your character's combat associated skills levels?

 

For instance, I'm at Level 25 as a character, but things like my one-handed attack skill is up to like level 64, my speech skill is up to level 55, light armor up to level 64, etc. Does the fact those skills are that much higher than my actual character level have any impact on the enemies' level that I face?

 

I believe it is your character's overall level. Thats how level scaling has worked in most of Bethesda's recent games.

[Enoch]

OK, I've played through the intro and bandity mine near where you start off. Made an Argonian named Climbs-Tall-Rocks, and I'll probably aim for my usual first-resort Elder Scrolls skillset (archery, stealth, alchemy, and assorted utility magics).

 

A few n00b questions:

 

Leveling up: Health and Magicka are self-explanatory, but what does increasing "Stamina" help me do? I noticed a little meter when I pushed RMB while holding my Bow-- is that it?

 

I've gone with Health for my first level, as I don't plan on playing a pure Mage-- I figure I'll teach myself some magic later, when I find some better spells. Sound like a tenable plan?

 

Do I have to find an item or set location to mix potions, or can I do it in normal inventory (and if so, how)?

[Desert Ranger]

OK, I've played through the intro and bandity mine near where you start off. Made an Argonian named Climbs-Tall-Rocks, and I'll probably aim for my usual first-resort Elder Scrolls skillset (archery, stealth, alchemy, and assorted utility magics).

 

A few n00b questions:

 

Leveling up: Health and Magicka are self-explanatory, but what does increasing "Stamina" help me do? I noticed a little meter when I pushed RMB while holding my Bow-- is that it?

 

I've gone with Health for my first level, as I don't plan on playing a pure Mage-- I figure I'll teach myself some magic later, when I find some better spells. Sound like a tenable plan?

 

Do I have to find an item or set location to mix potions, or can I do it in normal inventory (and if so, how)?

 

Increasing Stamina lets you sprint for longer amounts of time and it increases the amount of power attacks you can do before your stamina is depleted. I believe you have to find an alchemy table to mix potions. You can usually find them in encounters with mages, or any place to do with magic. The College of Winterhold is one of these places, for example.

 

Different experience for me as a stealther with no archery skill at all - at level 40-odd the higher level dragons squish me pretty fast so I mostly resort to avoiding them/running away. The problem with stealth killing everything is that the sneak skill got up to 100 while one-hand skill was barely 40 and light armor skill half of that again. Of course it's not just the sneak but the associated pickpocket that is doing me in levelwise.

 

I can get by on the quest dragons and such by liberal chain-quaffing of drugs but it's tedious. I could try to alleviate that by learning alchemy so the potions would be worth a damn but then that'd cause even more level scaling issues. (Also carry weight issues, which frustrated me enough such that I went ahead and cheated to set the capacity at 2000.)

 

I know that with the "right" build even the hardest things are trivial but a flat boost to difficulty would make it unplayable for others. Not sure what the solution would be other than coupling the scaling to a subset of skills (exclude lockpicking, speech, etc) rather than by level. This is on default difficulty for what it's worth.

 

Disclaimer I have not played the game.

 

However after reading both yours and GOA's posts I don't really see that much of a problem. He's having an easy time with something , ok it's a dragon and it should feel like a fight because his character has the right sort of build. Mages kick his ass because he has the wrong sort of build for fighting mages.

 

On the other hand your character is not built for fighting dragons, but probably has no problem killing mages ?

 

Without knowing why the Dragons are so easy for GOA it's hard to pin down. But two characters with different builds finding different things easy/hard. That seems like good RPG design to me.

 

It dosen't have anything to do with builds. Its because of the broken level scaling in Skyrim. Dragons were made easier so the player has a better chance of progressing in the main story and unlocking shouts. However the same can't be said for the rest of the hostile NPCs. As you progress and become a higher levelled character, the NPCs become stronger as well. So being a level 28 Dragonborn dosen't matter to a Frost Troll, it's still going to kick your ass because its at the same level as you.

Edited February 18, 2012 by Desert Ranger

[Desert Ranger]

EDIT: Sorry for the double post.

Edited February 18, 2012 by Desert Ranger

[Humanoid]

Stamina is just magicka for non-magic abilities (except that the basic attack doesn't take up any). It does make it trickier as a battlemage type character since you have to spread your level-up bonuses across three stats rather than two, but gear and potions can compensate - generally speaking gear can reduce mana costs of one school of magic, while potions can increase the total pool. Bear in mind that with the starting 100 magicka some spells you won't be able to cast at all since they cost more than your maximum.

 

I also think that stealth archers are the strongest build in the game almost to the point of being broken. I abandoned my first character because it got somewhat boring - you end up sniping from a distance, move away a little while the remaining targets run around for a minute, then they reset and you repeat with them having zero chance of finding you.

 

And yeah, you have to find a little alchemy table to mix potions, and an enchanting table to enchant gear. They're as common as muck though, any decent settlement has at least the alchemy table, and they also tend to be midway through in most of the the non-trivial dungeons.

 

 

________________

 

As for the level scaling, my understanding is different. Most generic creatures don't scale, they're replaced instead. I believe a Frost Troll is a Frost Troll. A zombie is a zombie. The only difference is that once you're higher level, you randomly get spawns of "strong zombie," then "stronger zombie," and so forth. It's a literal change - i.e. "strong zombie" would be the actual tooltip in the game. The lower level ones still spawn for variety even when you're at the level cap, even though you could kill one with the equivalent of a rusty letter opener by that point.

 

Now there's also a floor and a ceiling for each creature type so eventually you do genuinely outlevel all possible versions of a creature - for example there's a point at which you activate "strongest bandit" (which isn't all that high really) and past that point you will outlevel anything that can possibly spawn in a bandit's den, making them trivial.

 

The reverse is true for the floor - there is no lower level version of Frost Troll therefore if you encounter any early on, they will smack you around pretty hard. There is a regular Troll which is easier but they don't share a spawn point - the locations they're respectively eligible to spawn are mutually exclusive.

 

The things that scale 1:1 Oblivion style (or 5:5 or somesuch) are restricted to named boss creatures generally and therefore mostly encountered on the main quest.

Edited February 19, 2012 by Humanoid