Burqa Ban Backlash

[lord of flies]

France's burqa ban: women are 'effectively under house arrest'

Hind Ahmas walks into a brasserie in the north Paris suburb of Aulnay-sous-Bois. Jaws drop, shoulders tighten and a look of disgust ripples across the faces of haggard men sipping coffee at the bar.

 

"Hang on, what's all this? Isn't that banned?" splutters the outraged waiter behind the bar, waving a wine bottle at her niqab. Ahmas stands firm, clutches her handbag with black-gloved hands and says: "Call the police then." But she decides there's no point fighting. We cross the road to a cafe where she's a regular. No one bats an eyelid; the boss certainly doesn't want to lose her custom. Ahmas is breaking the law by ordering an espresso and sitting in a booth in the window. But these days she is breaking the law by stepping outside her own front door.

 

In April, France introduced a law against covering your face in public. Muslim women in full-face veils, or niqab, are now banned from any public activity including walking down the street, taking a bus, going to the shops or collecting their children from school. French politicians in favour of the ban said they were acting to protect the "gender equality" and "dignity" of women. But five months after the law was introduced, the result is a mixture of confusion and apathy. Muslim groups report a worrying increase in discrimination and verbal and physical violence against women in veils. There have been instances of people in the street taking the law into their hands and trying to rip off full-face veils, of bus drivers refusing to carry women in niqab or of shop-owners trying to bar entry. A few women have taken to wearing bird-flu-style medical masks to keep their face covered; some describe a climate of divisiveness, mistrust and fear. One politician who backed the law said that women still going out in niqab were simply being "provocative".

 

Ahmas, 32, French, a divorced single mother of a three-year-old daughter, puts her handbag on the table and takes out a pepper spray and attack alarm. She doesn't live on the high-rise estates but on a quiet street of semi-detached houses. The last time she was attacked in the street a man and woman punched her in front of her daughter, called her a whore and told her to go back to Afghanistan. "My quality of life has seriously deteriorated since the ban. In my head, I have to prepare for war every time I step outside, prepare to come up against people who want to put a bullet in my head. The politicians claimed they were liberating us; what they've done is to exclude us from the social sphere. Before this law, I never asked myself whether I'd be able to make it to a cafe or collect documents from a town hall. One politician in favour of the ban said niqabs were 'walking prisons'. Well, that's exactly where we've been stuck by this law."

 

But despite all the fanfare surrounding the niqab ban, no woman has yet been punished under the law for wearing one. The first real test will come on Thursday, when a local judge in Meaux, east of Paris, will decide whether to hand out to Ahmas and a friend the first ever fine. They were stopped outside Meaux town hall on 5 May wearing niqabs and carrying an almond cake to celebrate the birthday of the local mayor Jean-Fran

[Krookie]

tl dr

[Calax]

Wow... really? They shoehorned "Goodwin's Law" into that last paragraph?

 

Also if you replace niqab with any other article of clothing, it works fine.

 

Including things that would get you arrested for public indecency in most places (Like "panties" or "top")

Edited September 23, 2011 by Calax

[HoonDing]

 

/thread

Edited September 23, 2011 by virumor

[Walsingham]

If burqahs are to protect women, how come they don't have any spikes?

[Rosbjerg]

This ban is a shame, but muslims need to realize that they can wear their religious clothing and still fit in (and fight for that right).

 

The best I've seen so far was a girl who was a part of the Danish punk culture. She decided that Islam and European sub cultures could easily co-exist.

 

[Meshugger]

^Well that's cute and all, but she is still as cool as a christian rocker.

Edited September 23, 2011 by Meshugger

[Rosbjerg]

^Well that's cute and all, but she is still as cool as a christian rocker.

 

True, but I would rather hang out with a Christian rocker than one who dogmatically sticks with the old ways and refuses to compromise on any issue that relates to said religion.

[Gfted1]

zing!

[Morgoth]

Burkas are a security issue 'cause everybody could hide under a Burka with a bomb and walk into a crowd without any suspicion.

[Malcador]

Likewise with a jacket.

[lord of flies]

Wow... really? They shoehorned "Goodwin's Law" into that last paragraph?

Not really shoehorning when you consider that one of the people who harassed them said "We'll do to you what we did to the Jews."

Also if you replace niqab with any other article of clothing, it works fine.

 

Including things that would get you arrested for public indecency in most places (Like "panties" or "top")

Yes, except that before the burqa ban many women wore niqabs and faced comparatively little discrimination (as they themselves noted), while after it the discrimination exploded. This is a worsening of bigotry, not some kind of universalized ****fest.

This ban is a shame, but muslims need to realize that they can wear their religious clothing and still fit in (and fight for that right).

Integration under threat is not integration at all.

True, but I would rather hang out with a Christian rocker than one who dogmatically sticks with the old ways and refuses to compromise on any issue that relates to said religion.

You do realize that both Ahmas and Stephanie grew up in France and chose to wear the niqab quite late in life in both cases? As the article says: "Ahmas grew up in and around Paris, where her father, born in Morocco, worked as a town-hall gardener. Her parents were not strict Muslims. She put on the niqab six years ago as an educated single woman who once wore mini-skirts and liked partying, but then rediscovered her faith." "[stephanie] converted at 17 and put on the niqab several years later, long before meeting her husband. Her North African parents-in-law didn't like her wearing full-veil, and the marriage ended."

 

Portraying this as "dogmatically sticking with the old ways" is ridiculous. They are choosing to wear a symbol of their faith, and a particularly powerful one at that.

[Tale]

French politicians in favour of the ban said they were acting to protect the "gender equality" and "dignity" of women

I can accept banning burqas for a few reasons. But this reason is just a transparent lie. You don't uplift those forced into indignity by fining the indignant. You don't free slaves by making being a slave illegal. You don't resolve homelessness by fining people who don't shower. You're penalizing a victim for being victimized. It's idiotic.

[Calax]

Wow... really? They shoehorned "Goodwin's Law" into that last paragraph?

Not really shoehorning when you consider that one of the people who harassed them said "We'll do to you what we did to the Jews."

My point wasn't that it didn't happen in the world, but the news story didn't have to enforce goodwins law and should instead have let people make up their own minds without linking the ban to Nazi's.

 

And either way, the fact of the matter is that the french did jack to the jews in the first place so there is little reason for that to even be IN there without giving it some sort of context beyond just the quote. Where was it said, who said it, that sort of thing does matter when you're dealing with a quote where people are trying to link things to WWII and the nazi party.

[Orogun01]

Likewise with a jacket.

True, maybe we should just hang out naked to avoid suspicion.

[HoonDing]

Biggest joke is that most muslim countries don't put up with this crap themselves.

 

Not to mention that the fundamentalist ****s that force women to walk around like blanket stores, are holocaust deniers in the first place.

[lord of flies]

And either way, the fact of the matter is that the french did jack to the jews in the first place so there is little reason for that to even be IN there without giving it some sort of context beyond just the quote. Where was it said, who said it, that sort of thing does matter when you're dealing with a quote where people are trying to link things to WWII and the nazi party.

Really, the French did jack to the Jews in the first place? Really?

Not to mention that the fundamentalist ****s that force women to walk around like blanket stores, are holocaust deniers in the first place.

Out of curiousity, can you name or recall a single, specific case of a Muslim man forcing a woman to wear the niqab in the West, or are you just regurgitating stereotypes that you've had spoon-fed to you by the media?

[Guard Dog]

Just think what a wonderful world this we be if we all just left each other alone? If somone wants to follow the dictates of their religion and wear burqas, or whatever, who cares. Why is this even a point of contention? The biggest problem with the world today is that 50% of the people in it want to control the way the other 50% live their lives. You can't wear burqas, you can't pray in school, you can't own a gun, you can't eat this or drink that or smoke that other thing. You can't build the house you want on the land you bought an paid for, you can't plant this kind of tree because it's non-naitive, you can't buy beer or chicken sandwiches on Sunday. It's fu***ng insane.

 

I mean seriously, banning burqas is right there with banning pit bulls, or gay marriage, or legal gun ownership, or any one of a thousand other sh**ty rules created for the sole purpose of making us all as miserable as the little petty tyrants who made the rules. If you don't like burqas, don't wear one. What the hell do you care if someone else who you don't even know chooses to?

[Malcador]

Likewise with a jacket.

True, maybe we should just hang out naked to avoid suspicion.

 

Would help in the battle against obesity. Death by frostbite might be a negative though.

[Gfted1]

Yes, the world should be a free-for-all where everyone does whatever they want.

[Calax]

Really, the French did jack to the Jews in the first place? Really?

 

Yes really. The bit you cited in that was under A) A nazi puppet government (basically) in southern france and B) the Nazi government itself. NOT the french under their own controls.

Edited September 23, 2011 by Calax

[Malcador]

Yes, the world should be a free-for-all where everyone does whatever they want.

 

A bit much to go from "no telling people how to dress" to "CHAOS!!!!"

[Tale]

Yes, the world should be a free-for-all where everyone does whatever they want.

 

A bit much to go from "no telling people how to dress" to "CHAOS!!!!"

I'm pretty sure that's how Slaanesh was born.

[lord of flies]

Really, the French did jack to the Jews in the first place? Really?

 

Yes really. The bit you cited in that was under A) A nazi puppet government (basically) in southern france and B) the Nazi government itself. NOT the french under their own controls.

lol. well, i guess that means the french didn't do anything at all to jews. you're right. referring to "jews in france before the holocaust" makes no sense.

 

just

 

what

[Gfted1]

Yes, the world should be a free-for-all where everyone does whatever they want.

 

A bit much to go from "no telling people how to dress" to "CHAOS!!!!"

 

 

I was responding to Guard Dog's post and didnt feel like editing when your post got in before mine.