Hell Kitty Posted June 11, 2011 Posted June 11, 2011 I wonder if it'll just improve on AP's formula or if it'll be a completely different game (though I haven't played any Splinter Cell games, maybe both AP and DE took pointers from those) What an odd comment. Why would DX:HR try to improve on the AP formula when it could instead improve on the DX formula? AP has a lot in common with DX, but while DX has large, non-linear levels to roam, AP has small, narrow levels that lock off previous areas which stops the player from backtracking. AP is the last place the devs would look to for inspiration. DX is older than SC, but then I've seen people claim Ghost in the Shell ripped off The Matrix so I guess anything is possible. Old SC featured a shadow stealth system copied straight from Thief, DX:HR doesn't take shadows into account at all. New SC doesn't have non-lethal combat at all, which is an important part of a DX game.
Lexx Posted June 11, 2011 Posted June 11, 2011 I don't think you can compare AP with DX anyway, as both are pretty different from gameplay alone already. "only when you no-life you can exist forever, because what does not live cannot die."
Hassat Hunter Posted June 11, 2011 Posted June 11, 2011 Cause the footage seen so far (not including the leak, maybe it better shows size and gameplay alternatives) only has such levels and gameplay as AP has? Not the one DX has? ^ I agree that that is such a stupid idiotic pathetic garbage hateful retarded scumbag evil satanic nazi like term ever created. At least top 5. TSLRCM Official Forum || TSLRCM Moddb || My other KOTOR2 mods || TSLRCM (English version) on Steam || [M4-78EP on Steam Formerly known as BattleWookiee/BattleCookiee
sorophx Posted June 11, 2011 Posted June 11, 2011 ^this Walsingham said: I was struggling to understand ths until I noticed you are from Finland. And having been educated solely by mkreku in this respect I am convinced that Finland essentially IS the wh40k universe.
Orogun01 Posted June 11, 2011 Posted June 11, 2011 No, the levels are bigger than AP. Specially Detroit city :runs away and hides: I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"* *If you can't tell, it's you.
TheHarlequin Posted June 12, 2011 Posted June 12, 2011 Hacking does look sort of cool, I admit. Shadowrun anyone? World of Darkness News http://www.wodnews.net --- "I cannot profess to be a theologian; but it seems to me that Christians who believe in a super human Satan have got themselves into a logical impasse with regard to their own religion. For either God can not prevent the mischief of Satan, in which case he is not omnipotent; or else He could do so if he wished, but will not, in which case He is not benevolent. Fortunately, being a pagan witch, I am not called upon to solve this problem." - Doreen Valiente
Lexx Posted June 12, 2011 Posted June 12, 2011 No, the levels are bigger than AP. Specially Detroit city :runs away and hides: Also - as seen in some YouTube videos - DX3 has all turf in one big map, not like AP where you have a talking map, a real action map, then your headquarter map, then again some talking map, followed by the action map.... "only when you no-life you can exist forever, because what does not live cannot die."
sorophx Posted June 13, 2011 Posted June 13, 2011 (edited) What an odd comment. Why would DX:HR try to improve on the AP formula when it could instead improve on the DX formula? why can't it do both? oh, now I remember why I hated Deus Ex the first level, this huge unpopulated area... it reminded me of Doom's level design, god it was depressing... fortunately, the new DE seems to have more in common with AP than with its original. both are pretty different from gameplay alone already. you'd be surprised Edited June 13, 2011 by sorophx Walsingham said: I was struggling to understand ths until I noticed you are from Finland. And having been educated solely by mkreku in this respect I am convinced that Finland essentially IS the wh40k universe.
Bos_hybrid Posted June 13, 2011 Posted June 13, 2011 What an odd comment. Why would DX:HR try to improve on the AP formula when it could instead improve on the DX formula? why can't it do both? Thankfully DX:HR will just ignore AP and concentrate on being a sequel to a great game. Honestly though, AP and DX have little in common. oh, now I remember why I hated Deus Ex the first level, this huge unpopulated area... it reminded me of Doom's level design, god it was depressing... fortunately, the new DE seems to have more in common with AP than with its original.both are pretty different from gameplay alone already. you'd be surprised Fortunately DX:HR level design and gameplay has noting in common with AP and a lot in common with DX.
Hell Kitty Posted June 13, 2011 Posted June 13, 2011 why can't it do both? Because the AP formula and the DX formula are too different. With it's large, open level hubs DX has more in common with games like Thief and System Shock. The smaller, linear mission based levels of AP are closer to Splinter Cell than DX. Intent matters. DX:HR aims to improve on the DX formula. AP is irelevant. the new DE seems to have more in common with AP than with its original. It really doesn't.
sorophx Posted June 13, 2011 Posted June 13, 2011 oh, why is Invisible War considered such a bad game? what was so wrong with it? at least id doesn't use the QII engine >_> Walsingham said: I was struggling to understand ths until I noticed you are from Finland. And having been educated solely by mkreku in this respect I am convinced that Finland essentially IS the wh40k universe.
Tale Posted June 13, 2011 Posted June 13, 2011 Invisible War has a lot of things going against it. The engine wasn't that great. It moved a lot of features over to console designs, such as how the inventory was handled. I know lots of people don't like the unified ammo system. But I suspect that the biggest thing against it was that it was trying to speculate on a post-singularity world. Deus Ex was just a few steps into the future, got the whole cyberpunk sans the net feel going on, but Invisible War was a lot less relateable in places. And the secret Templar society set up recruiting stations in public locations. Awkward. Anyway, I still liked it. A few people around the forum do as well. The common sentiment seems to be "it was a good game, but not a good Deus Ex." "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."
Raithe Posted June 13, 2011 Posted June 13, 2011 Invisible War has a lot of things going against it. The engine wasn't that great. It moved a lot of features over to console designs, such as how the inventory was handled. I know lots of people don't like the unified ammo system. But I suspect that the biggest thing against it was that it was trying to speculate on a post-singularity world. Deus Ex was just a few steps into the future, got the whole cyberpunk sans the net feel going on, but Invisible War was a lot less relateable in places. And the secret Templar society set up recruiting stations in public locations. Awkward. Anyway, I still liked it. A few people around the forum do as well. The common sentiment seems to be "it was a good game, but not a good Deus Ex." If it hadn't been a Deus Ex sequel it would have been considered a better game. Among things that came across for me, was that the developers had pushed hard the idea that you'd be dealing with different factions and would be able to double-cross them on missions and it would all shape up how the game went... In practice, you could double-cross them to your hearts content and they'd be right back offering you another mission and there were no real consequences... There were a lot of interesting ideas in the game, but it just didn't gell together the way the first Deus Ex did. If you could ignore those issues, it was mostly entertaining. "Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum."
sorophx Posted June 13, 2011 Posted June 13, 2011 But I suspect that the biggest thing against it was that it was trying to speculate on a post-singularity world. well, the writing/plot in Deus Ex isn't stellar either. I mean, they took half of their game's plot straight from Ghost in the Shell (like the Daedalus/Puppeteer - JC/Motoko relationship ), and wrapped it in some fairly weak global conspiracy theme with some very bad dialogue in places. definitely not DX's stronger points I find it hard to relate to, personally. but if Invisible War is even worse in this regard, I can understand the reaction to it. although I'm interested to see how the sneak/combat is handled in it, gonna watch a let's play Walsingham said: I was struggling to understand ths until I noticed you are from Finland. And having been educated solely by mkreku in this respect I am convinced that Finland essentially IS the wh40k universe.
Slowtrain Posted June 13, 2011 Posted June 13, 2011 Invisible War has a lot of things going against it. The engine wasn't that great. It moved a lot of features over to console designs, such as how the inventory was handled. I know lots of people don't like the unified ammo system. But I suspect that the biggest thing against it was that it was trying to speculate on a post-singularity world. Deus Ex was just a few steps into the future, got the whole cyberpunk sans the net feel going on, but Invisible War was a lot less relateable in places. And the secret Templar society set up recruiting stations in public locations. Awkward. Anyway, I still liked it. A few people around the forum do as well. The common sentiment seems to be "it was a good game, but not a good Deus Ex." was that the developers had pushed hard the idea that you'd be dealing with different factions and would be able to double-cross them on missions and it would all shape up how the game went... In practice, you could double-cross them to your hearts content and they'd be right back offering you another mission and there were no real consequences... Yup. Almost the entire game was simplified and we were told the focus was going to be put into creating a numberless world where choices mattered. But what we discovered was that Harvey Smith's numberless world was boring as **** and that choices mattered less than in the first game. As far as being a generic fps game it wasn't bad, but it failed miserably at building on or even living up to the legacy of DX1. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
sorophx Posted June 13, 2011 Posted June 13, 2011 oh, so no C&C, compared to the original DX. that's an odd way to make a sequel. W.Spector didn't work on it? Walsingham said: I was struggling to understand ths until I noticed you are from Finland. And having been educated solely by mkreku in this respect I am convinced that Finland essentially IS the wh40k universe.
Slowtrain Posted June 13, 2011 Posted June 13, 2011 W.Spector didn't work on it? Accrding to him, no. The whole thing was handed off to Harvey Smith while Spector worked as the studio director or whatever. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
Wrath of Dagon Posted June 13, 2011 Posted June 13, 2011 (edited) oh, why is Invisible War considered such a bad game? what was so wrong with it? at least id doesn't use the QII engine >_> Because people like nothing better than to bitch bitterly whenever things aren't done exactly as they want. Also may be the expectations were too high. Having played it without the pre-conceptions of playing the first game, I can say it was one of the best games of the last generation. Edit: There were multiple ways to complete each quest, several possible game play styles, four distinct endings, and some (though not many) long term consequences. So no C&C compared to modern games? Edited June 13, 2011 by Wrath of Dagon "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan
Slowtrain Posted June 13, 2011 Posted June 13, 2011 Having played it without the pre-conceptions of playing the first game, I can say it was one of the best games of the last generation. *shrug* It wasn't terrible; I finished it twice. AS long as you played it without comparing it to DX1, it was enjoyable enough. a best game of the last generation though? eh, can't see it. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
Wrath of Dagon Posted June 13, 2011 Posted June 13, 2011 What would be a better game? "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan
Calax Posted June 13, 2011 Posted June 13, 2011 one of the biggest issues was the unification of many things, ammo, multi-tools and lockpicks, that sort of thing. You ended up never using stronger weapons than your pistol because you had to use as little ammo as possible. Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition! Kevin Butler will awesome your face off.
sorophx Posted June 13, 2011 Posted June 13, 2011 hm, this is very interesting. Walsingham said: I was struggling to understand ths until I noticed you are from Finland. And having been educated solely by mkreku in this respect I am convinced that Finland essentially IS the wh40k universe.
Wrath of Dagon Posted June 13, 2011 Posted June 13, 2011 one of the biggest issues was the unification of many things, ammo, multi-tools and lockpicks, that sort of thing. You ended up never using stronger weapons than your pistol because you had to use as little ammo as possible. I had no problem finding enough ammo on the hardest setting. Obviously you had to use it judiciously, you use the rocket launcher on the Templar Paladins, not on street thugs. That's a very good thing btw. "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan
Calax Posted June 13, 2011 Posted June 13, 2011 rationing ammo is a good thing yes, but running out of ammo because you had to kill five guys with larger weapons so you couldn't kill anyone else if you tried. Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition! Kevin Butler will awesome your face off.
Morgoth Posted June 13, 2011 Posted June 13, 2011 The problem with DX:IW wasn't Harvey Smith, the problem was the botched engine. Rain makes everything better.
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