HoonDing Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 ROFLMAO at "runscript zz_dae_debug" and all the madness at that thread at Bio forums. It would be nice if all that left-over data in the demo was fake and was put in by BioWare on purpose just to rattle their fanbase even more. The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
Monte Carlo Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 :: shrugs :: Then it's all over for gamers who don't want to play lowest-common-denominator games I guess.
Tale Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) ROFLMAO at "runscript zz_dae_debug" and all the madness at that thread at Bio forums. It would be nice if all that left-over data in the demo was fake and was put in by BioWare on purpose just to rattle their fanbase even more. It doesn't even have to be fake. It could be cut content. Like people going "Hey look, Kotor 2 has a droid plant and Atton loses his arms!" :: shrugs :: Then it's all over for gamers who don't want to play lowest-common-denominator games I guess. It's not that bad. Having an approachable difficulty curve isn't some big offense. What's the real complaint? I tend to find lots of elements of LCD are actually not half bad. Unless you're specifically desiring roguelikes with the plot of Memento. And there are particular elements of Bioware games I extremely doubt are the product of LCD that I don't exactly favor (romances are LCD?), so I don't buy that the entire game is designed around it. Edited February 28, 2011 by Tale "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."
Volourn Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 "actually, "to be fair," is a small box to be checked (not a shiny button) on the online tab o' the options menu if you wish to share data... and the box is checked as a default. naughty-naughty. lord knows we never knew the box were there until it were pointed out to us some number o' months after playing. am guessing that Gromnir were not the only person who failed to read all the options menu boxes. we looks for specific video, audio, and gameplay options rather than double-checking all such. HA! Good Fun!" As a lawyer, one would think you would be one of the last people to use ignorance as an excuse. P.S. Game companies would be better off the less they listen to the so called fans because the fans believe they are 'experts' and they are not. Just make the game the waay you want and if it is good and hyped enoguh it will be purchased. That worked with BG1, and a billion other games just fine. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Monte Carlo Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 It's not that bad. Having an approachable difficulty curve isn't some big offense. What's the real complaint? It's not a complaint, merely an observation. DA2 is the perfect storm of everything I hate in CRPGs: pre-determined characters, linear plots, actiony-combat with a fixed camera, freaking romances, fixed NPCs... As for the data feedback... what if the guys who quit the game after an hour just didn't like it? FFS, I don't like driving / racing games. If I quit Gran Turismo 120 after five minutes is that a reason for the developers to make all the gearboxes automatic and straighten out all those tricky 'S' bends? FFS.
MrBrown Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 :: shrugs :: Then it's all over for gamers who don't want to play lowest-common-denominator games I guess. It's not that bad. Having an approachable difficulty curve isn't some big offense. What's the real complaint? If what they're saying means that they're getting rid of character creation, and putting more options inside the game, I'm all for it. I hate when games make me restart them N times just to find out what all the options in character creation actually do.
Volourn Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 "I don't like driving / racing games. If I quit Gran Turismo 120 after five minutes" If you don't like racing/driving games why the hell did you start playing one in the first place? L0L DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
entrerix Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 I can't remember, but wasn't there a flurry of "This game is going to suck" right before DA: Origins came out? I'm not saying DA2 WONT suck, but still, its odd how much complaining happens BEFORE a game comes out instead of right AFTER when people realize, you know, that the game actually does suck. Killing is kind of like playin' a basketball game. I am there. and the other player is there. and it's just the two of us. and I put the other player's body in my van. and I am the winner. - Nice Pete.
Tigranes Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 Uh, dude, because there's, like, a demo out? I know what you mean, but I think they've shown quite a bit of the game now. I know at a similar stage I'd already signed on to buy DAO. The telemetry data is interesting because of course 'hardcore' gamers would be underrepresented (and they're a minority to begin with) as they're more likely to turn tht stuff off. Pretty sure I did, almost reflexively. But it's probably a good idea to leave it on, giving them better info can't hurt if they're using that info anyway. Let's Play: Icewind Dale Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Icewind Dale II Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Divinity II (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG1 (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG2 (In Progress)
Niten_Ryu Posted March 1, 2011 Posted March 1, 2011 As for the data feedback... what if the guys who quit the game after an hour just didn't like it? FFS, I don't like driving / racing games. If I quit Gran Turismo 120 after five minutes is that a reason for the developers to make all the gearboxes automatic and straighten out all those tricky 'S' bends? FFS. That is so weird. I mean I value data research greatly but it's useless if company don't figure out the right things from the data. Before Dragon Age Origins was released, Bioware lauched massive ad campaign. They didn't try to reach the usual CRPG players, but some mythical "average gamer of today". Actually I don't think even average gamer was impressed with "this is the new ...." ads or nerds playing with whores. But such massive ad campaign must have certain impact on sales. Maybe it's the lowest common denominator gamer growd. Ok, Bioware gained some new customers with ad campaign. Now do anyone agree that ad campaign gave honest impression of the Dragon Age. I mean it's rather dumbed down game but it still ain't the Call of Duty. Speaking of Call of Duty, game practically plays itself and there are still players who start the singleplayer campaign (means that they don't just multiplay) and quit after few archivement (maybe even earlier but we can't see data on that). In some other era or some other company would have accepted the fact that they marketed game to the wrong segment. Or rather, they managed to rip customers money (since they bought the game), even if they didn't bother to play more then one hour. But for some bizarre reason, Bioware figured out that they designed first game incorrectly. Extremely weird. Let's play Alpha Protocol My misadventures on youtube.
Enoch Posted March 1, 2011 Posted March 1, 2011 (edited) "I don't like driving / racing games. If I quit Gran Turismo 120 after five minutes" If you don't like racing/driving games why the hell did you start playing one in the first place? L0L Because the game had TV commercials that convinced him it was the totally awesome New S*** of racing games, of course! (Seriously, though, the disconnect between DA:O's marketing and its content is probably a big reason why they had a not-insignificant number of people try the game who didn't expect or want the kind of experience that it offered. And now we have the tail wagging the dog-- the marketing doesn't accurately reflect the game, so they change the game to resemble the marketing.) Edit: Or, what Niten just said. Edited March 1, 2011 by Enoch
entrerix Posted March 1, 2011 Posted March 1, 2011 I'm getting more and more curious about this demo... how actiony is this? I was under the impression that the PC version of the game at least was more or less the same as DA:O, but with worse camera angles... Killing is kind of like playin' a basketball game. I am there. and the other player is there. and it's just the two of us. and I put the other player's body in my van. and I am the winner. - Nice Pete.
Tale Posted March 1, 2011 Posted March 1, 2011 (edited) I'm having trouble contact Bioware servers. hmm. Bioware.com, masseffect.com, dragonage.com, and social.bioware all time out on me. But I can ping them and tracert all but social.bioware.com. Dragon Age's game client doesn't recognize me as connected to the internet. :/ Swtor.com works, so it seems mainly sites that end up resolving as x.bioware.com and the game servers. But it's only me. Edited March 1, 2011 by Tale "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."
WDeranged Posted March 1, 2011 Posted March 1, 2011 I've been watching a few videos of the 360 demo, it actually looks considerably more fun with the direct controls, it's a real shame because I bet the odds of them including gamepad control in the PC version are nil, I can accept a tactically dumbed down game if there's a fun alternative but I just didn't enjoy controlling Hawk in the demo.
Enoch Posted March 1, 2011 Posted March 1, 2011 I'm getting more and more curious about this demo... how actiony is this? I was under the impression that the PC version of the game at least was more or less the same as DA:O, but with worse camera angles... It's not all that different from one of the grindier segments of DA:O. The big differences (IMO) are: 1) the game starts with a pure action sequence rather than the exposition-laden Origins, 2) the defined, voiced PC and the "general tone"-based dialogue choices allow the player to just react rather than read and reflect on choices, and 3) although the game preserves DA:O's tactical pause function, it is even more designed to cater to players who don't want to use it.
Volourn Posted March 1, 2011 Posted March 1, 2011 "Seriously, though, the disconnect between DA:O's marketing and its content is probably a big reason why they had a not-insignificant number of people try the game who didn't expect" Only if you watch the 30 second commericals. The vast majority of marketing about DAO told everyone exactly what kind of game it would be (quality arguments notwithstanding). Afterall, even PST's pre release video packages didn't hint at a super dialogue heavy game either. It wa sheavy on showing off the combat. *shrug* DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Gromnir Posted March 1, 2011 Posted March 1, 2011 "actually, "to be fair," is a small box to be checked (not a shiny button) on the online tab o' the options menu if you wish to share data... and the box is checked as a default. naughty-naughty. lord knows we never knew the box were there until it were pointed out to us some number o' months after playing. am guessing that Gromnir were not the only person who failed to read all the options menu boxes. we looks for specific video, audio, and gameplay options rather than double-checking all such. HA! Good Fun!" As a lawyer, one would think you would be one of the last people to use ignorance as an excuse. eh? why? oh, 'cause o' the old saw 'bout ignorance o' the law is no defense, right? HA! sorry, but we didn't vote for the biowarians, and the box check a'int analogous to a law... and nobody would try to makes the analogy save all but the most deluded and ignorant o' fanbois. yutz. in any event, am thinking that the problem with bio and their datamining is that the biowarians can be just as stoopid as vol. for instance, one can look at the fact that people stopped after a single hour and justifiably come to a different conclusion 'bout why players quit. example of a possible alternative explanation: folks stopped after an hour 'cause the rinse-and-repeat endless cycle o' combats became soul-numbing boring...fast. see. however, we does think that the biowarians is right that the learning curve for traditional crpgs can be daunting, but how they end up with da2 as a result is baffling. the skills trees still looks complex to a crpg neophyte, no? so, we call bs. is not that bio has made the crpg introduction less complex... they has made meaningless. mashing a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a is apparent enough to successfully overcome combats. biowarian claimed solution does not match their espoused goal. 'stead o' genuine simplifying da complex rules, bio has gone ahead and made the rules pointless. and with the expected MEE (mass effect effect) player development choices will become increasingly meaningless as one progresses in the game. am betting that by the end o' the game, our dw rogue is gonna look near identical to bob's or phil's, or peete's dw rogue... and even if our stats and abilities is slight different, it won't matter 'cause the gameplay will be identical. if making the learning curve less daunting is the goal, then we cringe at biowarian solution. datamining don't mean squat if the biowarians misinterpret the data, or if their solutions to perceived problems is bassackwards. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Enoch Posted March 1, 2011 Posted March 1, 2011 The number of people who watch 30-second commercials (either on TV or on a site like youtube or gametrailers) >>>>>> the number of people who read gaming media preview articles.
Gromnir Posted March 1, 2011 Posted March 1, 2011 I'm getting more and more curious about this demo... how actiony is this? I was under the impression that the PC version of the game at least was more or less the same as DA:O, but with worse camera angles... 2) the defined, voiced PC and the "general tone"-based dialogue choices allow the player to just react rather than read and reflect on choices am hopeful that the demo is misleading. the early reviews almost unanimous speak o' stellar writing, but the demo evidenced dreck. ... am somewhat suspecting that biowarian reputation for writing is camouflaging and that the reviewers is just assuming that 'cause this is a biowarian game the writing must be compelling, 'cause what we saw were as campy-bad and trite as anything we has ever seen from bio. not even have to read bio dialogue choices no more as we choose either halo & wings, angry hammer, or comic response. MEE (mass effect effect) rears its ugly head... but actual goes a step further than commander shep dialogue options in making over-the-top and obvious. *shudder* even so, the demo writing is the one aspect we is willing to give the biowarians a free pass. the writing sample from the da2 demo is far too small to make a legit judgment, and so we hold out hope. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Maria Caliban Posted March 1, 2011 Posted March 1, 2011 (edited) It's not that bad. Having an approachable difficulty curve isn't some big offense. What's the real complaint? It's not a complaint, merely an observation. DA2 is the perfect storm of everything I hate in CRPGs: pre-determined characters, linear plots, actiony-combat with a fixed camera, freaking romances, fixed NPCs... It's fine that you don't like those things. You can do so without suggesting that the people who look forward to DA II and like the changes are the 'lowest common denominator.' The world is not divided into 'Things I like' and 'Things only stupid people like.' If what they're saying means that they're getting rid of character creation, and putting more options inside the game, I'm all for it. I hate when games make me restart them N times just to find out what all the options in character creation actually do. If you mean facial customization, I'd think it would be worse. As you have to do the fighting segment first and then the face. There is a mirror of transformation within the game, though. If you mean talents/attributes, yeah, that's all in game and you can respec as well in the game. I'm getting more and more curious about this demo... how actiony is this? I was under the impression that the PC version of the game at least was more or less the same as DA:O, but with worse camera angles... Why not try the demo? In the first, exaggerated part, darkspawn explode on contact. Later on, it plays like a sped up Origins to me except the cooldowns on healing and potions are longer and enemies arrive in waves. They got rid of the ogre's signature move and it's obvious that Aveline (the sword and board companion) was buffed up for the fight. Edited March 1, 2011 by Maria Caliban "When is this out. I can't wait to play it so I can talk at length about how bad it is." - Gorgon.
Orogun01 Posted March 1, 2011 Posted March 1, 2011 I can't remember, but wasn't there a flurry of "This game is going to suck" right before DA: Origins came out? I'm not saying DA2 WONT suck, but still, its odd how much complaining happens BEFORE a game comes out instead of right AFTER when people realize, you know, that the game actually does suck. Not from the Dragon Age forums, from what I remember we were pretty much level headed. Discussing the politics, metaphysics and religion in the Dragon Age universe and Maria spent a lot of time fishing information from the devs and being the first one to post in every thread answering questions in that glorious brusque manner that only she can do. Good times I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"* *If you can't tell, it's you.
Maria Caliban Posted March 1, 2011 Posted March 1, 2011 I'm posting this fanart, because I know it'll make you all happy. On the THEY'RE ALL BI! - BETTING POOL thread, David said he has that as his wallpaper. "When is this out. I can't wait to play it so I can talk at length about how bad it is." - Gorgon.
Gorth Posted March 1, 2011 Author Posted March 1, 2011 *Mumbles something about 'Twilight' and 'Bad influence'* “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein
Maria Caliban Posted March 1, 2011 Posted March 1, 2011 (edited) Pretty sure there were no bisexual foursomes in Twilight. I'm posting this too late for those who are interested. It's 1UPs live playthrough of DA II that starts where the demo ends. Link It's recorded though if you want to watch it afterwards. I'm avoiding it because I'd rather be spoiler free. Edited March 1, 2011 by Maria Caliban "When is this out. I can't wait to play it so I can talk at length about how bad it is." - Gorgon.
sorophx Posted March 1, 2011 Posted March 1, 2011 can't find the recorded video, could it be that it takes several hours to do it (days even?) Walsingham said: I was struggling to understand ths until I noticed you are from Finland. And having been educated solely by mkreku in this respect I am convinced that Finland essentially IS the wh40k universe.
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