Tunisia and Egypt play dominoes?

[Oerwinde]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/...article1904949/

 

Pro-democracy demonstrations in Algeria despite ban on protests.

[Oerwinde]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/...article1905328/

 

Now Yemen as well.

[GreasyDogMeat]

Is he taking 60 billion dollars with him? I guess he and his family deserve it after such a long commitment and hard work serving the people. Scum, he and his entire family should be shot and executed.

Yeah!1! Kill him, his cousin, his grandchildren and his cat!

 

Maybe Mubarak isn't such a bad guy if you dislike him so much.

[Calax]

Egyptian military has dissolved their parliament and is working to build a separate government (which may or may not include a new constitution)

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/...parliament.html

[Oerwinde]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/...e1907126/page1/

 

More protests in Iran. Looks like Tunisia and Egypt acted as a warning to the governments in the other countries, because their police/military clamped down pretty hard on these protests.

[WDeranged]

Mubarak in coma

 

"Egyptian newspaper al-Masry al-Youm reported that deposed Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak has been in a coma since Saturday, quoting "well-informed sources."

[Humodour]

More than 80 protesters killed, over 20,000 Libyans protesting at any one time now, and the internet is being shut down. Mirroring Egypt and Tunisia reasonably strongly.

 

Seems stupid to turn off the net. What's a citizen to do then? Oh, joining a protest sounds fun. Kind of ensuring your inevitable downfall, yet this is at least the third regime to do it (two of which have already fallen).

 

More here: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/top/all/7436564.html

Edited February 19, 2011 by Krezack

[Masterfade]

More than 80 protesters killed, over 20,000 Libyans protesting at any one time now, and the internet is being shut down. Mirroring Egypt and Tunisia reasonably strongly.

 

Seems stupid to turn off the net. What's a citizen to do then? Oh, joining a protest sounds fun. Kind of ensuring your inevitable downfall, yet this is at least the third regime to do it (two of which have already fallen).

 

More here: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/top/all/7436564.html

 

Agreed. What they should do is to give every citizen a free WoW account. Or copies of Japanese ero games. The crowd will be off the street in no time.

[Chill Penguin]

The rest of the Middle East is crumbling too.

[Oblarg]

Well, this had to happen eventually. The region was never particularly stable.

[Monte Carlo]

Of course, the uncomfortable thing for a lot of folks is the slowly dawning realisation that Cheney, Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld had a point...

[Nightshape]

Of course, the uncomfortable thing for a lot of folks is the slowly dawning realisation that Cheney, Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld had a point...

 

[Meshugger]

Of course, the uncomfortable thing for a lot of folks is the slowly dawning realisation that Cheney, Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld had a point...

 

Urrrr, there's a huge difference between people rebelling against their own government compared to it being overthrown by an outside force. So what point are you talking about?

[Walsingham]

Of course, the uncomfortable thing for a lot of folks is the slowly dawning realisation that Cheney, Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld had a point...

 

 

Don't be like that, doofus. My fallschirmjaeger friend is merely pointing out one of the bits of neocon thinking which liberals conveniently never addressed - that neocons felt a more democratic, nicer world would serve their evil purposes; and that the US should take serious concerted action to achieve that world. Although of course in at least the case of Rumsfeld he fethed that notion sideways by doing things like using obviously insufficient troops, and handing over civil reconstruction to firms which have never done the work.

 

It is interesting to see by contrast what a liberal US president is doing on the cusp of democratic revolutions in multiple gok-hole dictatorships. Which is to say sweet FA.*

 

 

*it would be pleasing to assume this was true. But I'm sure he's doing something via the CIA. I just think it's fair enough for me to rant on the basis that I can't see him doing that. And I enjoy a good rant as much as the next man.

[Rostere]

Of course, the uncomfortable thing for a lot of folks is the slowly dawning realisation that Cheney, Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld had a point...

 

Haha. WTF!?

[SteveThaiBinh]

It looks like Gaddafi is in serious trouble. Is it too much to hope that Iran is next?

[Oblarg]

It looks like Gaddafi is in serious trouble. Is it too much to hope that Iran is next?

 

We can only wait and see.

[Wrath of Dagon]

It looks like Gaddafi is in serious trouble. Is it too much to hope that Iran is next?

I hate to say it, but I don't see much hope for Iran, the government is too determined and brutal. May be if there's dissension in the ruling class.

[Oblarg]

The solution for Iran is to wait. The older generation will die, and the younger generation doesn't seem too keen on putting up with the Islamist bull**** once they're gone.

[Monte Carlo]

Of course, the uncomfortable thing for a lot of folks is the slowly dawning realisation that Cheney, Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld had a point...

 

Haha. WTF!?

 

That's right, he's committed heresy. Burn the witch.

 

Why not have a think, y'know, an original thought? One not prescribed by your almost certainly libtard peer group? Maybe challenge them and explore a perspective you don't normally share?

 

I do it now and then. Sometimes I even realise my point of view on a subject was skewed. Why not check it out?

[Rostere]

Of course, the uncomfortable thing for a lot of folks is the slowly dawning realisation that Cheney, Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld had a point...

 

Haha. WTF!?

 

That's right, he's committed heresy. Burn the witch.

 

Why not have a think, y'know, an original thought? One not prescribed by your almost certainly libtard peer group? Maybe challenge them and explore a perspective you don't normally share?

 

I do it now and then. Sometimes I even realise my point of view on a subject was skewed. Why not check it out?

 

Oh please . I'm not part of any "peer group" of any political affliation. Don't try so hard to be condescending as it would only appear you are desperate when you're trying to use words such as "libtard" for people you are arguing with.

 

If anything, the changes that are taking place in the Muslim world are proof that "Cheney, Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld" and similar profiles advocating direct intervention were wrong, since the fact that the revolts are independent from Western influence are their greatest strength. In their last hour, falling dictators clinged to their strongest tool to incite the masses, repeating over and over that the revolts were controlled by the West, that the new regimes will be controlled by the West, that the West will benefit from "unrest" in the Muslim world, et.c. et.c.

 

It might be worth to note that exactly the same demagoguery would have been just what was needed for their continued (mis-)rule, if "the West" had tried to influence the outcomes of these revolts. A military intervention anywhere would probably have ended up like just the disaster Iraq was, and further cemented Muslim prejudices about the intervening countries. All we have to hope is that things turn out well now. The next few months may very well see the largest gains for democracy since the fall of the Soviet Union, and in the long run the reconciliation between the Muslim and the Western world.

[Walsingham]

Rostere, I don't want to jump all over you with boots here. However, we've seen precisely one regime change thus far. From a force-based* one man state to a military junta. Elsewhere we've seen popular uprisings smacked down like a drunk donkey. The faith certain people - not necessarily you - have in bloodless replacements of dictators is like a faith in miraculous healing in its persistence, lack of any logical reasoning, and paucity of examples. Whereas the notion that regimes can be** changed by invasion is backed by the whole of human history.

 

~~

 

BTW, again with kind permission of www.stratfor.com

 

Libya is facing its biggest internal crisis to date with reports trickling out of the country indicating that unrest is now spreading to the capital of Tripoli. Government buildings are being attacked, prisons are being broken into and energy firms like BP are evacuating their personnel.

 

The ability of the Libyan regime to hold itself together depends on two key factors: the loyalty of the tribes and the loyalty the army to the regime. Now those are the two factors that are the most in flux and the threat of civil war is thus very real.

 

Late last night, one of Gadhafi sons Seif al-Islam gave a long, rambling and impromptu speech in which he said that Libya is not another Egypt or Tunisia and that his father Moammar Gadhafi, who has ruled the country for more than four decades, is not another Ben Ali are Mubarak. In other words, Seif al-Islam was saying that the military is not about to drop the regime

[Volourn]

"further cemented Muslim bigotry'

 

Fixed.

 

We get it, Muslims in the ME tend to be bigots when it comes to other people including other Muslims.

 

Muslims killing muslims.

 

More muslims wer emurdered in iraq by Muslims than muslims that were murdered by non muslims.

 

Why is that? Why do Muslims feel the need to murder each other yet claim they do it to fight the 'barbarians from the west'? LMFAO

 

Hopefully, the good people of the ME will get the freedome they deserve and want that most westerners don't want them have because they prefer to have Muslim countries be in crap shape so they can feel all superior.

 

Thankfully, NA Muslims have seen the light and don't rely on violence to get what they want.

 

btw, Iraq is better off without Saddam in power. The 'disaster' of Iraq was caused by an Iraqi called Saddam Hussein. No non Iraqi made the decisions that absolutely crippled Iraq's finances, power, culture, and infleunce that he did. Hussein destroyed Iraq. Nobody else did.

Edited February 21, 2011 by Volourn

[Zoraptor]

It looks like Gaddafi is in serious trouble. Is it too much to hope that Iran is next?

I hate to say it, but I don't see much hope for Iran, the government is too determined and brutal. May be if there's dissension in the ruling class.

There is dissension in the ruling class*. The big thing Iran has going for it (governmental stability wise) is that its government is as widely liked by portions of its population as much as it is disliked by other parts. The loyalty Mubarak and Ben Ali had was almost entirely from those that were paid to be loyal, but there's still a very large segment of Iran's population- almost entirely ignored by the west- for which the Islamic Revolution is still a living, breathing entity and Ahmedinajad/ Khamenei etc are popular embodiments of that.

 

In theory Gaddafi should have elements of the same support, but his pan-Arabism hasn't really panned (haha) out and his pan-Africansim has nowhere near the same resonance, which rather leaves him as just another rhetorical secular blowhard.

 

*You don't get to be a presidential candidates in Iran (ie Kouroubi/ Mousavi) without being 'ruling class' and Rafsanjani/ Khatami are actual ex presidents.

[Zoraptor]

If anything, the changes that are taking place in the Muslim world are proof that "Cheney, Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld" and similar profiles advocating direct intervention were wrong, since the fact that the revolts are independent from Western influence are their greatest strength.

Part of their argument was that Iraq would act as an example- the first domino, if you will- and all the middle east would follow its shining example to freedom, pluralism and democracy, and that that would make further direct intervention unnecessary. It is at least arguable (though not something that I agree with, as I've said before I tend to think that the democratisation of mass communication is the most important factor) that a major factor in the unrest is Arabs looking at Iraq and asking "if they can have elections, why can't we?"