Volourn Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 "The fact that you think Kreia is out to destroy the PC means you didn't really pay attention to any of the dialogue at the end of the game. She's *much* deeper than that. " No, no she isn't. She's more shallow than the puddle my niece leaves on the floorm tyring to get the bathroom when her parents were toilet training her. R00fles! DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Oblarg Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 (edited) "The fact that you think Kreia is out to destroy the PC means you didn't really pay attention to any of the dialogue at the end of the game. She's *much* deeper than that." No, no she isn't. She's more shallow than the puddle my niece leaves on the floorm tyring to get the bathroom when her parents were toilet training her. R00fles! 2/10 Little off-topic butAnd, if you want to include all the cut content, Bao Dur has some really cool stuff towards the end. What kind of stuff? I never saw any dropped content with him even though it always seemed he was meant to somehow die at Telos part two . There are some really cool cut lines of his about Malachor and its echoes towards the end. Edited February 12, 2011 by Oblarg "The universe is a yawning chasm, filled with emptiness and the puerile meanderings of sentience..." - Ulyaoth "It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built." - Kreia "I thought this forum was for Speculation & Discussion, not Speculation & Calling People Trolls." - lord of flies
Orogun01 Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 (edited) "The fact that you think Kreia is out to destroy the PC means you didn't really pay attention to any of the dialogue at the end of the game. She's *much* deeper than that." No, no she isn't. She's more shallow than the puddle my niece leaves on the floorm tyring to get the bathroom when her parents were toilet training her. R00fles! Right, because all of the conversation with her which are of deeply philosophical nature, existential and the major religious theme of KOTOR 2 equating the force to a Pantheist sentient being not deep. But Shepard making some crack about where the council can shove it, writing gold. Edited February 12, 2011 by Orogun01 I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"* *If you can't tell, it's you.
Nepenthe Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 "The fact that you think Kreia is out to destroy the PC means you didn't really pay attention to any of the dialogue at the end of the game. She's *much* deeper than that." No, no she isn't. She's more shallow than the puddle my niece leaves on the floorm tyring to get the bathroom when her parents were toilet training her. R00fles! Right, because all of the conversation with her which are of deeply philosophical nature, existential and the major religious theme of KOTOR 2 equating the force to a Pantheist sentient being not deep. But Shepard making some crack about where the council can shove it, writing gold. Because good writing in a game is some guy sprouting some Blaise Pascal at you out of the blue? Wandering into some mechanic who challenges you with some Kierkegaard? Not really on the topic of KOTOR2, but it sure looks like some people think that way? You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that? Reapercussions
Malcador Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 Not really on the topic of KOTOR2, but it sure looks like some people think that way? It really doesn't. But as you do, heh. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
Volourn Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 "Right, because all of the conversation with her which are of deeply philosophical nature, existential and the major religious theme of KOTOR 2 equating the force to a Pantheist sentient being not deep. But Shepard making some crack about where the council can shove it, writing gold." ERROR ALERT! FALLACY ALERT! ERROR ALERT! I did NOT claim that KOTOR2 had horrible writing, That still doesn't change the fact that Kreia's 'musings' are anything but deep. She's a one dimensional shallow character. As for your quip about ME2, it shows you lack the understanding of what good writing is. Good writing isn't about having characters pouts semi philosophy bullcrap but to talk in character, be consistent, and fit the scene. Characters should not be treated as encyclopedias. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Orogun01 Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 (edited) "Right, because all of the conversation with her which are of deeply philosophical nature, existential and the major religious theme of KOTOR 2 equating the force to a Pantheist sentient being not deep. But Shepard making some crack about where the council can shove it, writing gold." ERROR ALERT! FALLACY ALERT! ERROR ALERT! I did NOT claim that KOTOR2 had horrible writing, That still doesn't change the fact that Kreia's 'musings' are anything but deep. She's a one dimensional shallow character. As for your quip about ME2, it shows you lack the understanding of what good writing is. Good writing isn't about having characters pouts semi philosophy bullcrap but to talk in character, be consistent, and fit the scene. Characters should not be treated as encyclopedias. No, you said that Kreia was a one dimensional character. Let's do a side by side comparison of Kreia vs. every other NPC out there. Right off the bat you know she is not a Jedi, eve if it's implicit you realize that she is a destitute Sith. Despite this she becomes your mentor since you are bound to her and can only retrain yourself through her. All the time mentoring she shoots your expectations down, revealing more about the characters surrounding you than them. She manages to protect you and breed you for an ultimate confrontation and in the end be it that whatever you choose (light or dark) she'll besmirch you for it. She is the character driving the story, the mastermind behind this whole plot and by her influence the whole KOTOR storyline. Please do mention another companion that matches all of her accomplishments. You want to see one dimensional, why don't we take a look at ME companions? Being the quintessential representation of their species and basically interchangeable with any of them. Edited February 12, 2011 by Orogun01 I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"* *If you can't tell, it's you.
Volourn Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 Every other companion in KOTOR2 outside the androids have more dimensions than that overrated crone. So shallow your drool on the ground while talking about her is deeper and more meaningful. R00fles! DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Orogun01 Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 Why do I even bother? I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"* *If you can't tell, it's you.
Oblarg Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 Why do I even bother? I don't know why anyone does. He's just a troll. "The universe is a yawning chasm, filled with emptiness and the puerile meanderings of sentience..." - Ulyaoth "It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built." - Kreia "I thought this forum was for Speculation & Discussion, not Speculation & Calling People Trolls." - lord of flies
Majek Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 Why do I even bother? Because you're a low level NPC. Not enough XP to avoid the traps. 1.13 killed off Ja2.
Zoraptor Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 Carth is a true multidimensional character, far more than Kreia. Carth exists in the D&D dimension (Anomen), Jade Empire dimension (Sky), SW dimension (well duh) and the Mass Effect dimension (Kaiden). How many more dimensions do you want? Kreia only exists in the D&D and SW dimensions. Thus Carth > Kreia FACT! or QED, for the cerebral who like a nice discussion of the finer points of Kant, Goethe, Descartes or Mathers in their RPG.
HoonDing Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 (edited) Because good writing in a game is some guy sprouting some Georg Hegel at you out of the blue? fixed Edited February 12, 2011 by virumor The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
Gromnir Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 Carth is a true multidimensional character, far more than Kreia. Carth exists in the D&D dimension (Anomen), Jade Empire dimension (Sky), SW dimension (well duh) and the Mass Effect dimension (Kaiden). How many more dimensions do you want? Kreia only exists in the D&D and SW dimensions. Thus Carth > Kreia FACT! or QED, for the cerebral who like a nice discussion of the finer points of Kant, Goethe, Descartes or Mathers in their RPG. for chuckle value only... am not sure that you wanna open up this can o' worms. keep in mind that chrisa noted in the past that he managed to gets an incarnation o' ravel into every game he worked 'pon. so, depending on how "dimensions" is defined, you could be in for a legion o' kreia/ravel. am suspecting there is a fallout kreia/ravel (or two... or three) and we knows for certain that there is multiple planescape ravels (multiple internal dimensions) as well as at least a few forgotten realm ravel/kreia incarnations. star wars is a given, but there is also the possibilities o' ap and dungeon siege iii... and whether or not dungeon siege iii "exists" is a whole 'nother problem am not certain you wanna face. heck, for those folks with special inside knowledge, torn could represent an addional potential "dimension." your approach is admirable, but quixotic. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Zoraptor Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 I've already got around the multiple Ravel aspects in PST/ IWD2 etc by the simple rhetorical device of defining D&D as a single dimension. Which leaves AP (no obvious analogue, maybe if there'd been a bit more from Albatross he could have been a scarf wearing, cross dressing Ravel) and FONV which I haven't played. Not much can be said about Alien or Torn since they weren't even released, and DS3 hasn't been released yet. So the point still stands, Carth is twice as dimensional as Kreia.
sorophx Posted February 13, 2011 Posted February 13, 2011 torn ah, you just had to go on and open old wounds most anticipated game of the time for me... still dreaming about a proper fantasy RPG based on SPECIAL Walsingham said: I was struggling to understand ths until I noticed you are from Finland. And having been educated solely by mkreku in this respect I am convinced that Finland essentially IS the wh40k universe.
Gromnir Posted February 13, 2011 Posted February 13, 2011 I've already got around the multiple Ravel aspects in PST/ IWD2 etc by the simple rhetorical device of defining D&D as a single dimension. Which leaves AP (no obvious analogue, maybe if there'd been a bit more from Albatross he could have been a scarf wearing, cross dressing Ravel) and FONV which I haven't played. Not much can be said about Alien or Torn since they weren't even released, and DS3 hasn't been released yet. So the point still stands, Carth is twice as dimensional as Kreia. again, the fact that you is unaware of kreia's presence in torn, alien, ds3 or even ap does not preclude her existence in those titles/dimensions. if you had never played or purchased ps:t it would not reasonable to argue that ravel did not exist in your d&d dimension. therefore, your knowledge or ignorance is not a valid litmus test o' existence. similarly, the release status o' a game does not change existence the bare-naked existence o' a character. also, as you concede that you utilized a crude rhetorical device to merge all d&d dimensions, without producing an actual rationale, Gromnir and others may simply redefine without the need to produce a rationale... though we will take an incremental step and posit that you are mislabeling a gaming system as a dimension. after all, the d&d license has in the past been sold in pieces based 'pon the various gaming worlds. a holder of a digital media ps:t license did not give the license holder the right to produce forgotten realms titles or ravenloft titles. therefore, in the complete absence o' any contrary argument, we will divide as wotc and tsr has seen fit to do in the past. side note: please be aware that we is not not claiming that dimension should be or is as limited as the licensing example provide. however, we will, for the moment, suggest that the definition should be at least so expansive. torn were seeming doomed from the start. the engine that black isle licensed with the intent o' creating torn were not sufficient for developer needs. we have always been surprised at how little scorn and ridicule black isle folks had to endure given the magnitude o' their folly in this matter. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
sorophx Posted February 13, 2011 Posted February 13, 2011 it looked like crap on the screenies, but the little info had given me much hope. too bad Walsingham said: I was struggling to understand ths until I noticed you are from Finland. And having been educated solely by mkreku in this respect I am convinced that Finland essentially IS the wh40k universe.
Gromnir Posted February 13, 2011 Posted February 13, 2011 it looked like crap on the screenies, but the little info had given me much hope. too bad ... actually, am gonna change our pov on the torn snaffu. gotta give somebody at black isle credit for how they handled the torn situation. considering how much resources went into torn, for there to be so little fallout is kinda amazing. perhaps fergie can sell snow to an eskimo. dunno, but is actual kinda impressive that such a world-class blunder did not seeming handicap black isle folks. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Volourn Posted February 13, 2011 Posted February 13, 2011 "Carth is a true multidimensional character, far more than Kreia. Carth exists in the D&D dimension (Anomen), Jade Empire dimension (Sky), SW dimension (well duh) and the Mass Effect dimension (Kaiden). How many more dimensions do you want? Kreia only exists in the D&D and SW dimensions. Thus Carth > Kreia FACT! or QED, for the cerebral who like a nice discussion of the finer points of Kant, Goethe, Descartes or Mathers in their RPG." This is genuinely funny. That said, you used a wrong example, b/c I'm far from Carth's biggest fan so making fun of him just amuses me. "I don't know why anyone does. He's just a troll." Are you really CRYING because someone has a different opinion than you on the internet? LMAO DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Oblarg Posted February 13, 2011 Posted February 13, 2011 1/10 You're getting worse. "The universe is a yawning chasm, filled with emptiness and the puerile meanderings of sentience..." - Ulyaoth "It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built." - Kreia "I thought this forum was for Speculation & Discussion, not Speculation & Calling People Trolls." - lord of flies
Volourn Posted February 13, 2011 Posted February 13, 2011 (edited) o rly? tHAT IZ WUT YER MUMMA SAYS TOO! Edited February 13, 2011 by Volourn DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
entrerix Posted February 13, 2011 Posted February 13, 2011 zing! and he's back Killing is kind of like playin' a basketball game. I am there. and the other player is there. and it's just the two of us. and I put the other player's body in my van. and I am the winner. - Nice Pete.
Orogun01 Posted February 13, 2011 Posted February 13, 2011 o rly? tHAT IZ WUT YER MUMMA SAYS TOO! So you got an 1/10 from his mom too? and somehow your comeback is to make a pun out that fact. Marvelous wit of yours, you should consider writing for BW. I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"* *If you can't tell, it's you.
Gorth Posted February 13, 2011 Author Posted February 13, 2011 I'm sure Volourn can dislike something in a less belligerent way and I'm sure everybody else and their moms can ignore somebody not liking the same as them, yet everybody feels like they need to follow the script. You would think it's some kind of mating ritual where everybody does weird things without actually understanding why. How about giving it a break, even if just for a while guys? >_ “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein
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