Deadly_Nightshade Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 (edited) I preferred Fallout 3's atmosphere, Bethesda know exactly how to make a compelling environment that rewards exploration... Edited January 11, 2011 by Deadly_Nightshade "Geez. It's like we lost some sort of bet and ended up saddled with a bunch of terrible new posters on this forum." -Hurlshot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDeranged Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 ...not really an RPG in the modern sense, Out of curiosity, what does that mean? All things to all people I suppose, I meant it in the post Black Isle/Biowarian sense, dialogue heavy with lots of skill based interactions, Elder Scrolls games have practically nothing in the way of using a skill to affect the story or environment. As for rewarding exploration, true, New Vegas has tonnes of weapons to find but Fallout 3 had weapons, masses of computer logs and smartly arranged clutter to provide exposition, New Vegas certainly took some inspiration from that but I still felt the exploration was a bit empty compared to following the (excellent) plot. Horses for courses as they say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDeranged Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I preferred Fallout 3's atmosphere, Bethesda know exactly how to make a compelling environment that rewards exploration... You're telling me they didn't do a damn fine job creating a nuked out DC? You won't find me arguing about the stupidity of the plot, no sir, but the environment kicked ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 ...not really an RPG in the modern sense, Out of curiosity, what does that mean? All things to all people I suppose, I meant it in the post Black Isle/Biowarian sense, dialogue heavy with lots of skill based interactions, Elder Scrolls games have practically nothing in the way of using a skill to affect the story or environment. As for rewarding exploration, true, New Vegas has tonnes of weapons to find but Fallout 3 had weapons, masses of computer logs and smartly arranged clutter to provide exposition, New Vegas certainly took some inspiration from that but I still felt the exploration was a bit empty compared to following the (excellent) plot. Horses for courses as they say. OK, thanks. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadly_Nightshade Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 ...but the environment kicked ass. Meh, it was an improvement over Oblivion for sure but I wasn't that impressed with the majority of the scenery in Fallout 3. "Geez. It's like we lost some sort of bet and ended up saddled with a bunch of terrible new posters on this forum." -Hurlshot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorton_AP Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I like NV more as a game, but pretty much agree spot on with WDeranged for the atmosphere. I loved exploring the blown out wastes of DC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure79 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I liked exploration in NV much better. There were some interesting places in Fallout 3 to be sure, but there was never anything interesting going on in them. I would run across a unique site and explore hoping to find interesting tidbits on what happened in that building. Usually what I got was a bunch of raiders/crab people/ghouls/supermutants which I had to kill. No talking, no negotiation, no related quests. I agree the Capitol Wasteland was great to look at and had atmosphere but overall there wasn't enough content in each location to mix things up and keep things interesting. In NV a lot of places had their own little backstory/history that made exploring interesting. I think Obs did a great job leading you from one location to the next and giving you options on how you could complete each location. It was more varied and more interesting and I knew every time I found a vault or other settlement, I was in for a good time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkreku Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I also think the world design was better in Fallout 3. The world felt more thought out and more consistent than in Fallout: New Vegas. Fallout 3's world felt like a big picture with little pieces of ideas in it, while Fallout: New Vegas felt like a very crowded mosaic of ideas but no big picture tying it all together. I vastly prefer to play New Vegas, but I could still tell that one company has been making open world type of games since the nineties and one has not. Swedes, go to: Spel2, for the latest game reviews in swedish! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoonDing Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 (edited) There was always something interesting to find in FO3's random locations, like notes, terminals, schematics, bobbleheads, unique weapons... NV has many empty locations that feel added just to fill up the world. Like that building south of New Vegas that's nothing but one floor with a few giant ants. In FO3 such a location doesn't even get named. In NV, ultimately there is hardly anything of interest outside the main quest, FO3 is the reverse. NV even punishes exploration since all faction (fetch) quests take one all across the map anyway, meaning people that already explored the entire map before hitting the main quest Bethesda-style got served the boring cake. Anyway, (preliminary) Skyrim map: Edited January 11, 2011 by virumor The ending of the words is ALMSIVI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigranes Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I can't remember 95% of FO3 now, but it seems to be that they're quite similar. NV definitely has a few locations where there's hardly anything of note to find (e.g. some of the shacks), but that's fine with me - it actually adds to the feeling of the Wasteland in general, where not everywhere is going to be preserved in the same manner and not everything has living inhabitants. I do recall that FO3 did a nice job of spreading around various environmental clues as to what happened, but NV does a lot of it too, e.g. the Vaults. What I thought NV did really well was the world design as a whole - combined with the location markers (which aren't so bad, as opposed to quest markers), roads, people pointing you the right way, the terrain, the critter distribution - everything was organically and sensibly designed to encourage you to explore in places where you will find interesting things, and nearly every place in the world had that "hey what's over there" thing going on. I think FO3 did pretty well at this too, but to be honest I only remember the idiotic subways. Subways, subways, subways, ghouls, mutants, subways. Skyrim map seems to show several major settlements, which is always nice. Let's Play: Icewind Dale Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Icewind Dale II Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Divinity II (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG1 (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG2 (In Progress) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDeranged Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I vastly prefer to play New Vegas, but I could still tell that one company has been making open world type of games since the nineties and one has not. This is pretty much how I feel about it, a bit more evenly divided maybe, both games give me things I really enjoy but I'm not so enraptured with either that I can't pick fault. Also, must not look at the Skyrim map, must not look at the Skyrim map, must not look at the Skyrim map...oh god it's heavan, I wonder if the grid is the actual in game cell size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigranes Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I'm sure it is, but the cell size has surely changed since the Gamebryo TES. Let's Play: Icewind Dale Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Icewind Dale II Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Divinity II (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG1 (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG2 (In Progress) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDeranged Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 In NV, ultimately there is hardly anything of interest outside the main quest, FO3 is the reverse. NV even punishes exploration since all faction (fetch) quests take one all across the map anyway, meaning people that already explored the entire map before hitting the main quest Bethesda-style got served the boring cake. This is exactly what I found, most of the fetch quests took me a minute to complete, simply a matter of fast travelling, if you play New Vegas like Fallout 3 it falls apart slightly, I found it was better to go where quests lead me and explore along the way rather than picking a point on the horizon. On the subject of things I hate about games I love, Morrowind's economy is balls, I ended up starting over with a stack of mods to gimp everything and make life more difficult, within two weeks my first character had become the wealthiest, most daedric equipped mofo in the land, in reality I probably could have purchased Vvardenfell from the Tribunal and had money to spare for a few holiday homes around Sadrith Mora and Seyda Neen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDeranged Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 (edited) I'm sure it is, but the cell size has surely changed since the Gamebryo TES. I'm still wondering if it really is going to be a complete departure from Gamebryo, Bethesda have good spin doctors, "new" and "inspired by" are vague terms when it comes to engine technology. I really hope it is all new, I noticed the scale has been increased in the screenshots, that Mayan looking temple near the waterfall is apparently one of the new dungeon styles and it looks nice and vast, Gamebryo locations always feel a bit truncated in the height department, I'm sure I've casually walked up higher hills than Red Mountain *edit* though some of those canyons in New Vegas were damn impressive. Edited January 11, 2011 by WDeranged Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walsingham Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 (edited) There was always something interesting to find in FO3's random locations, like notes, terminals, schematics, bobbleheads, unique weapons... NV has many empty locations that feel added just to fill up the world. Like that building south of New Vegas that's nothing but one floor with a few giant ants. In FO3 such a location doesn't even get named. In NV, ultimately there is hardly anything of interest outside the main quest, FO3 is the reverse. NV even punishes exploration since all faction (fetch) quests take one all across the map anyway, meaning people that already explored the entire map before hitting the main quest Bethesda-style got served the boring cake. I think you have a different definition of interersting to mine. FO3 and Whatsit the fantasy one, was like being trapped overnight in a distribution warehouse. Tonnes of anonymous looking boxes which contained plenty of goodies. But that's only interesting if you're some kind of human magpie. Vegas was chock full of characters, even the bad guys had character. More like being trapped on the Orient Express. Edited January 11, 2011 by Walsingham "It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"." -Elwood Blues tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoonDing Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I really hope it is all new, I noticed the scale has been increased in the screenshots, that Mayan looking temple near the waterfall is apparently one of the new dungeon styles and it looks nice and vast, Gamebryo locations always feel a bit truncated in the height department, I'm sure I've casually walked up higher hills than Red Mountain *edit* though some of those canyons in New Vegas were damn impressive. That may be a Daedric ruin. Which reminds me, it would be nice if (limited) Levitation is back in, similar to Risen. Morrowind had a lot of instances where the Z-axis was put to good use. The ending of the words is ALMSIVI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDeranged Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I really hope it is all new, I noticed the scale has been increased in the screenshots, that Mayan looking temple near the waterfall is apparently one of the new dungeon styles and it looks nice and vast, Gamebryo locations always feel a bit truncated in the height department, I'm sure I've casually walked up higher hills than Red Mountain *edit* though some of those canyons in New Vegas were damn impressive. That may be a Daedric ruin. Which reminds me, it would be nice if (limited) Levitation is back in, similar to Risen. Morrowind had a lot of instances where the Z-axis was put to good use. When I first visited some of the Telvanni areas I was staring up at these vertical shafts inside a giant mushroom thinking wtf, it only dawned on me later that wizards shouldn't need stairs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walsingham Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I just get the feeling with Bethesda that if they tabletop gamesmastered a session with dice, you'd fall asleep playing. "It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"." -Elwood Blues tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDeranged Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I just get the feeling with Bethesda that if they tabletop gamesmastered a session with dice, you'd fall asleep playing. As long as the dice are normal mapped, HDR lit and Havok weighted then Todd is a happy man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tel Aviv Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I just get the feeling with Bethesda that if they tabletop gamesmastered a session with dice, you'd fall asleep playing. As long as the dice are normal mapped, HDR lit and Havok weighted then Todd is a happy man. Morrowind seemed to me a much more interesting sandbox than Oblivion in terms of landscape. And character! Remember that weird House Hlaalu dude who made you take your clothes off? ...great times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tale Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 How I miss Telvanni. I usually went Hlaalu, but visiting Telvanni helped set Morrowind apart for me. "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoonDing Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Morrowind had so many great characters. I loved that cantankerous Telvanni master in Tel Naga, and the crazy chick in Tel Branora that would flip out after she told you to wear her clothes. Divayth Fyr was great as well, basically the Elminster of the Elder Scrolls universe. And of course, Vivec. Remember that weird House Hlaalu dude who made you take your clothes off? ...great times. The Lusty Argonian Maid by Crassius Curio A (mercifully short) excerpt from Crassius Curio's bawdy play Act IV, Scene III, continued Lifts-Her-Tail: Certainly not, kind sir! I am here but to clean your chambers. Crantius Colto: Is that all you have come here for, little one? My chambers? Lifts-Her-Tail: I have no idea what it is you imply, master. I am but a poor Argonian maid. Crantius Colto: So you are, my dumpling. And a good one at that. Such strong legs and shapely tail. Lifts-Her-Tail: You embarrass me, sir! Crantius Colto: Fear not. You are safe here with me. Lifts-Her-Tail: I must finish my cleaning, sir. The mistress will have my head if I do not! Crantius Colto: Cleaning, eh? I have something for you. Here, polish my spear. Lifts-Her-Tail: But it is huge! It could take me all night! Crantius Colto: Plenty of time, my sweet. Plenty of time. END OF ACT IV, SCENE III The ending of the words is ALMSIVI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 That Skyrim map makes it look tiny. With only 3 cities (i think) it looks more like a map of a smaller region than a whole country. "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDeranged Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Morrowind had so many great characters. I loved that cantankerous Telvanni master in Tel Naga, and the crazy chick in Tel Branora that would flip out after she told you to wear her clothes. Divayth Fyr was great as well, basically the Elminster of the Elder Scrolls universe. And of course, Vivec. Remember that weird House Hlaalu dude who made you take your clothes off? ...great times. The Lusty Argonian Maid by Crassius Curio A (mercifully short) excerpt from Crassius Curio's bawdy play Act IV, Scene III, continued Lifts-Her-Tail: Certainly not, kind sir! I am here but to clean your chambers. Crantius Colto: Is that all you have come here for, little one? My chambers? Lifts-Her-Tail: I have no idea what it is you imply, master. I am but a poor Argonian maid. Crantius Colto: So you are, my dumpling. And a good one at that. Such strong legs and shapely tail. Lifts-Her-Tail: You embarrass me, sir! Crantius Colto: Fear not. You are safe here with me. Lifts-Her-Tail: I must finish my cleaning, sir. The mistress will have my head if I do not! Crantius Colto: Cleaning, eh? I have something for you. Here, polish my spear. Lifts-Her-Tail: But it is huge! It could take me all night! Crantius Colto: Plenty of time, my sweet. Plenty of time. END OF ACT IV, SCENE III Divayth Fyr was fun with his experimental corprus daughters/love slaves I went house Hlaalu but I've barely started so I'm guessing it's a while before Crassius Curio starts acting weird on me, only just noticed he wrote The Lusty Argonian. *loads Morrowind* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 From a character and story and atmosphere perspective I think MW is Beth's strongest RPG by far. Overall I prefer Daggerfall and its huge dynamic world, but MW does a lot of good stuff. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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