Malcador Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 Ah, if it only worked. Guess Steam is the way. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
Hassat Hunter Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 Well, I am not going to buy a game that needs 24/7 online presence. If I was wanting to play such a title I would have to turn to piracy then. No other choice. How's that user-friendly? ^ I agree that that is such a stupid idiotic pathetic garbage hateful retarded scumbag evil satanic nazi like term ever created. At least top 5. TSLRCM Official Forum || TSLRCM Moddb || My other KOTOR2 mods || TSLRCM (English version) on Steam || [M4-78EP on Steam Formerly known as BattleWookiee/BattleCookiee
Hurlshort Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 Well, I am not going to buy a game that needs 24/7 online presence. If I was wanting to play such a title I would have to turn to piracy then. No other choice. How's that user-friendly? It's a game. You don't have to play any of them. Your choice should be to not play it at all.
Malcador Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 Well, I am not going to buy a game that needs 24/7 online presence. If I was wanting to play such a title I would have to turn to piracy then. No other choice. How's that user-friendly? Well he did say if wanted to play it, so he's pretty much right about the choices. If you buy it and then break the copy protection, is that still piracy ? Barring that, get some friend to get it and play it that way. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
Slowtrain Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 The airport security measures are an apt comparison. You get x-rayed through your underwear and bodily searched even if you are innocent, because some people don't "play by the rules" to get what they want. I'm not really sure it's an apt comparison. The potential consequences are far more extreme. So much so it pretty much renders such a comparison pointless. However, I agree with Hurlie: it's a company's product; they spent time, money, effort developing it; they can chooose to protect it how they want, even if it's short-sighted and stupid. ANd I, likewise, can simply choose not to play their silly games and schemes, and spend the hours of my life elsewhere, which I do so choose, 99.99% of the time. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
Gorgon Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 DRM schemes may suck, but I understand businesses wanting to protect their investments. Pirates have no justification for what they are doing. It is completely wrong and morally repugnant. Wrong, yes.. Morally repugnant.. I dunno I would reserve that term for something worse. 'Morally having been out of the fridge for too long and not exactly safe to eat, but not entirely repugnant either' perhaps. Na na na na na na ... greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER. That is all.
Hurlshort Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 DRM schemes may suck, but I understand businesses wanting to protect their investments. Pirates have no justification for what they are doing. It is completely wrong and morally repugnant. Wrong, yes.. Morally repugnant.. I dunno I would reserve that term for something worse. 'Morally having been out of the fridge for too long and not exactly safe to eat, but not entirely repugnant either' perhaps. Hmm, I'm thinking it might be more like morally unripened fruit, given that a good majority of pirates are people who are young or have a very immature view of business.
Slowtrain Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 Hmm, I'm thinking it might be more like morally unripened fruit, given that a good majority of pirates are people who are young or have a very immature view of business. I think a lot of pirates are simply people who have never spent time and effort and sweat creating someting. Once you've done that and realized the significance of your investment in that creation, I think it becomes much more difficult to morally justify taking other people's hard work without their consent. But until you've actually created something of your own, which some people never do, maybe it's harder to make that empathetic connection. DRM schemes are still the wrong approach to controlling piracy though, imo. And money-sucking corporate greed is still a problem. Too think otherwise is naive. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
Malcador Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 (edited) Hm, I dunno, the pirate groups always seem to be in their 30s (at least the ones busted - so they started late 20s or so I guess) and amusing amounts work in the software industry (which does make sense). Edited December 5, 2011 by Malcador Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
sorophx Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 If you buy it and then break the copy protection, is that still piracy ? it is, since you're supporting the pirates anyway. but sometimes that's what you have to do, since many releases are more stable than what the publisher is selling. Walsingham said: I was struggling to understand ths until I noticed you are from Finland. And having been educated solely by mkreku in this respect I am convinced that Finland essentially IS the wh40k universe.
Tale Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 If you buy it and then break the copy protection, is that still piracy ? I wouldn't call it piracy. But it's still illegal. In the United States, it's a DMCA violation. As I understand it, there's similar laws in effect for all WIPO member countries. But I'm not a lawyer. "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."
Hurlshort Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 Hm, I dunno, the pirate groups always seem to be in their 30s (at least the ones busted - so they started late 20s or so I guess) and amusing amounts work in the software industry (which does make sense). I think you are talking more about the people setting up the torrents and all that, which are definitely pirates, but there are a heck of a lot less of them than there are people who simply use the torrents to get free stuff.
Malcador Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 Yep, but those aren't the pirates really, those are the leechers/pubs (they set up the torrents as well). Splitting hairs, I suppose. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
Slowtrain Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 Yep, but those aren't the pirates really, those are the leechers/pubs (they set up the torrents as well). Splitting hairs, I suppose. It was a just a thought on my part. It's hard for me imagine how anyone who actually creates something of their own that they feel good about and that requires a serious investment of time and labor on their part: a book, a game, a painting, a t-shirt, anything really, could justify or even consider taking someone else's comparable product of personal labor without permission. Its not even about money really. A lot of people on the internet allow stuff they've created to be used for free, but they expressly give that permission that such is the case. Or they don't. Or they say it can be free for personal use. Or whatever. The point is just respecting an individual (or company's) wishes) in regards to the usage of the product that they've created. That's all. It's pretty simple really. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
sorophx Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 (edited) The point is just respecting a company's wishes that's the problem. some companies don't respect their gamers. although, pirates pirate anything anyway, regardless of the company Edited December 5, 2011 by sorophx Walsingham said: I was struggling to understand ths until I noticed you are from Finland. And having been educated solely by mkreku in this respect I am convinced that Finland essentially IS the wh40k universe.
Slowtrain Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 The point is just respecting a company's wishes that's the problem. some companies don't respect their gamers. I do agree with that. It's a difficult situation. It's generally easier to have respect for the usage wishes of some individual artist making digital paintings or t-shirts and putting them up on his/her personal website then it is to have respect for some giant publisher that we all know would like nothing more than to grab every gamer by the ankles, turn them upside down, and shake them violently until all the money falls out of their pockets. I think personally that game publishers need to start trying to establish a non-adversarial relationship with gamers rather than trying to choke them to death in an effort to wrign eveyr last potential bit of money from their bodies. Cruddy drm and registration schemes don't make anybody happy. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
Nepenthe Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 The airport security measures are an apt comparison. You get x-rayed through your underwear and bodily searched even if you are innocent, because some people don't "play by the rules" to get what they want. I'm not really sure it's an apt comparison. The potential consequences are far more extreme. So much so it pretty much renders such a comparison pointless. Just like getting anally probed is a little more extreme than a "phone home" drm scheme? amiright? You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that? Reapercussions
Volourn Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 ":that's the problem. some companies don't respect their gamers." Then the choice should be not to buy/play their games. It does not give one the right to steal games. Gaming is not a right. You earn the right by paying x amount of dollars. Period. Pirating ie. stealing games is always 100% a chocie and it's an evil choice since its solely based on selfishness and one's wanting stuff for free. Pirates are scumbags. Plain and simple. It's also really disrepectful to defend theft of games on a game developer's site. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
sorophx Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 but what about Robin Hood? Walsingham said: I was struggling to understand ths until I noticed you are from Finland. And having been educated solely by mkreku in this respect I am convinced that Finland essentially IS the wh40k universe.
Nepenthe Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 ":that's the problem. some companies don't respect their gamers." Then the choice should be not to buy/play their games. It does not give one the right to steal games. Gaming is not a right. You earn the right by paying x amount of dollars. Period. Pirating ie. stealing games is always 100% a chocie and it's an evil choice since its solely based on selfishness and one's wanting stuff for free. Pirates are scumbags. Plain and simple. It's also really disrepectful to defend theft of games on a game developer's site. Besides, considering what the average internet gamer is like, it would be really hard for almost any person approaching normality to respect them. Respect must be earned, not demanded. You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that? Reapercussions
Maria Caliban Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 I greatly appreciate no-CD/DVD cracks, which puts me in the odd position of disagreeing with pirating software while using a service pirating groups provide. "When is this out. I can't wait to play it so I can talk at length about how bad it is." - Gorgon.
Azdeus Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 (edited) The Swiss Government rocks. Edited December 6, 2011 by Gorth Removed quote Civilization, in fact, grows more and more maudlin and hysterical; especially under democracy it tends to degenerate into a mere combat of crazes; the whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary. - H.L. Mencken
Hassat Hunter Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 Looks my post got erased. Anyways, sum it up... can't buy games of companies that are busted *cough* Troika *cough*... till pretty recently when Steam offered them up. How would people suggest I go legal there? Also, game devs should develop demo's dammit. ^ I agree that that is such a stupid idiotic pathetic garbage hateful retarded scumbag evil satanic nazi like term ever created. At least top 5. TSLRCM Official Forum || TSLRCM Moddb || My other KOTOR2 mods || TSLRCM (English version) on Steam || [M4-78EP on Steam Formerly known as BattleWookiee/BattleCookiee
Hurlshort Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 Looks my post got erased. Anyways, sum it up... can't buy games of companies that are busted *cough* Troika *cough*... till pretty recently when Steam offered them up. How would people suggest I go legal there? Also, game devs should develop demo's dammit. There are a lot of avenues. A few years back I ordered a Baldur's Gate compilation pack from some specialty store on Amazon. You've got Ebay also. There are tons of legal ways to track down an old game in today's world. Or you can say shucks and move on. These are video games, not insulin.
sorophx Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 There are a lot of avenues. A few years back I ordered a Baldur's Gate compilation pack from some specialty store on Amazon. You've got Ebay also. There are tons of legal ways to track down an old game in today's world. I don't see how buying a second hand game is different from downloading it. only in the first case you actually pay money to the guy. I don't think it's possible to convince me second-hand sales are more "legal" than torrents Walsingham said: I was struggling to understand ths until I noticed you are from Finland. And having been educated solely by mkreku in this respect I am convinced that Finland essentially IS the wh40k universe.
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