What do you Atheists of the forum believe in?

[Nightshape]

Nightshape asked about culture and heritage, which science is only one aspect of. Look, we can cherry pick evidence for and against the church all day, like the fact that all Universities were built and funded primarily by the church.

 

But there really isn't a point to it. Christianity is a major part of human history. It is folly to write it off as some absolute evil, it isn't any more evil than human nature itself.

 

Part of human history? Sure, but mostly a distraction. At best the Roman-Catholic church is a death gasp of a crumbled empire trying to keep control over people. Same could be said of the anglican church aswell.

 

You're right though, in that religion isn't inherently evil, it's just been a damn good excuse for people to act like pricks towards each other.

[Nepenthe]

You're right though, in that religion isn't inherently evil, it's just been a damn good excuse for people to act like pricks towards each other.

 

As is any belief system, including lack of religion.

[Pidesco]

^ Medieval Australia wasn't noted for it's Christianity.

 

 

Gorth is Danish.

[Guest The Architect]

Nah, he's one of us now.

[Gorth]

Nah, he's one of us now.

I even bought an Aussie slang dictionary

[Humodour]

^ Medieval Australia wasn't noted for it's Christianity.

 

 

Gorth is Danish.

 

That is a lie perpetrated by villains.

[Hurlshort]

like the fact that all Universities were built and funded primarily by the church.

Say wut?

 

Of the universities I know, none were either founded nor funded by a church. My highchool was founded by a church in 1184 (AD) or so, but the universities? Not really.

 

While there is some debate over the details, Medieval Universities were a continuation of Cathedral and Monastic schools of the early Middle Ages. You can look it up if you'd like, it's an interesting history.

 

The Catholic Church owned a lot of land and had a lot of power in the Middle Ages. There wasn't much that went on that they didn't have a hand in.

[Hurlshort]

You're right though, in that religion isn't inherently evil, it's just been a damn good excuse for people to act like pricks towards each other.

 

And it has also been a damn good excuse for people to help each other. I don't know of many soup kitchens and homeless shelters that aren't involved with a church in some way.

[Monte Carlo]

I think nightshape is being wilfully obtuse, although I don't think he'd claim history was his strong point.

[Humodour]

like the fact that all Universities were built and funded primarily by the church.

Say wut?

 

Of the universities I know, none were either founded nor funded by a church. My highchool was founded by a church in 1184 (AD) or so, but the universities? Not really.

 

While there is some debate over the details, Medieval Universities were a continuation of Cathedral and Monastic schools of the early Middle Ages. You can look it up if you'd like, it's an interesting history.

 

The Catholic Church owned a lot of land and had a lot of power in the Middle Ages. There wasn't much that went on that they didn't have a hand in.

 

That's not true in Australia.

[Hurlshort]

like the fact that all Universities were built and funded primarily by the church.

Say wut?

 

Of the universities I know, none were either founded nor funded by a church. My highchool was founded by a church in 1184 (AD) or so, but the universities? Not really.

 

While there is some debate over the details, Medieval Universities were a continuation of Cathedral and Monastic schools of the early Middle Ages. You can look it up if you'd like, it's an interesting history.

 

The Catholic Church owned a lot of land and had a lot of power in the Middle Ages. There wasn't much that went on that they didn't have a hand in.

 

That's not true in Australia.

 

That might have something to do with Europeans not settling in Australia until the 18th Century.

 

Does everyone understand that we are talking about Europe from 500 CE to about 1500 CE? Nightshape brought up that he believes Judeo-Christianity set the world back about 500 years. I assume he was talking about European history during the medieval era.

[Calax]

I think that a lot of the information that we have re-discovered at the end of the dark ages was not just because the church preserved it, but also because the Arabic scholars preserved it. The dark ages did lead to a lot of information and culture being lost during the constant warfare, plagues, and search for money to survive, while he european society was collapsing Arabian cultures were thriving and they made many leaps and bounds in various fields.

 

The problem with any religion is when extremely conservative reactionary groups come in and take over.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiGT9V-SY04

 

That's Neal Degrass Tyson discussing how we get a huge pile of stars with Arabic names. And discussing where the number 0 and algebra etc come from while the church was triggering a massive brake on the societies educational and cultural growth. And he discusses how the same thing happened in Islam.

[Nepenthe]

The problem with any religion is when extremely conservative reactionary groups come in and take over.

That's a problem with ANYTHING. Like NMA, or what's that place you guys keep alluding to.

 

Everybody's probably picking up the pattern I see here...

[Walsingham]

The problem with any religion is when extremely conservative reactionary groups come in and take over.

 

Al Qaeda may have socially reactionary ideals, but in the main I'd describe it as revolutionary. Like our dear insect friend it believes in a one-shot cure all.

[Nightshape]

I think nightshape is being wilfully obtuse, although I don't think he'd claim history was his strong point.

 

I've always been more interested in pre-christian european history, with a particular focus on the conversion from paganism to christianity.

 

I am bias.

[Calax]

Why is it always that the most conservative of people are the most frightened of progress scientifically and culturally?

[Tale]

Why is it always that the most conservative of people are the most frightened of progress scientifically and culturally?

Think about what you said. Conservative and progressive are virtually diametric opposite philosophies. So the most conservative would be opposed to progressive.

[Calax]

Yeah, but reversing the progress made during their lifetimes (like young earth creationists) just seems.... idiotic to say the least.

[Nightshape]

Yeah, but reversing the progress made during their lifetimes (like young earth creationists) just seems.... idiotic to say the least.

 

It actually is idiotic. Yes, such people are idiots.

[Gorth]

Does everyone understand that we are talking about Europe from 500 CE to about 1500 CE? Nightshape brought up that he believes Judeo-Christianity set the world back about 500 years. I assume he was talking about European history during the medieval era.

Actually, a lot of universities, observatories, heck even churches were built as prestige projects by monarchs, trying to outdo each other. Not saying that none were ever built by a church, but the "all" is a wast exaggeration.

 

I've always been more interested in pre-christian european history, with a particular focus on the conversion from paganism to christianity.

I read a good book once about the history of the British Isles. Unfortunately it only covered the time from 4200BC to 400AD, so newer history (including the arrival of Chrisianity in the post Roman era) isn't covered.

[Nepenthe]

Does everyone understand that we are talking about Europe from 500 CE to about 1500 CE? Nightshape brought up that he believes Judeo-Christianity set the world back about 500 years. I assume he was talking about European history during the medieval era.

Actually, a lot of universities, observatories, heck even churches were built as prestige projects by monarchs, trying to outdo each other. Not saying that none were ever built by a church, but the "all" is a wast exaggeration.

 

Yeah, yet theology was quite often (I'm tempted to say generally) the first subject taught. (If it hadn't been, I wouldn't be a tenth generation university graduate)

Edited October 4, 2010 by Nepenthe

[Pope]

I believe in coincidence and conditionality.

[Hurlshort]

Does everyone understand that we are talking about Europe from 500 CE to about 1500 CE? Nightshape brought up that he believes Judeo-Christianity set the world back about 500 years. I assume he was talking about European history during the medieval era.

Actually, a lot of universities, observatories, heck even churches were built as prestige projects by monarchs, trying to outdo each other. Not saying that none were ever built by a church, but the "all" is a wast exaggeration.

 

Yeah, yet theology was quite often (I'm tempted to say generally) the first subject taught. (If it hadn't been, I wouldn't be a tenth generation university graduate)

 

I'm definitely willing to recognize that nobles and monarchs had their hand in the local universities. I may have overstated the financial contribution of the church. I will say that the talent, as in the teachers and lecturers, did come out of religious and monastic orders more often than not. When Charlemagne was crowned Holy Roman Emperor, the literacy rate in Europe was less than 1%, so there wasn't a very large talent pool available for quite some time. If you wanted to learn to read and write, you either needed to be a wealthy lord or a monk.

[Moose]

what do you think caused everything to come into existence in the first place?

 

Is it not possible there was a universe of some sort before the big bang?

[Orogun01]

what do you think caused everything to come into existence in the first place?

 

Is it not possible there was a universe of some sort before the big bang?

Actually there where 5 previous universes with the same events as this one, and we actually had this conversation 5 times already. I'm getting kind of tired of having to explain this to you every 50 million years.