You've lost a customer

[Tigranes]

I think he's just saying you're using Steam anyway, which is a valid point. And 5 separate activations would be a problem if you couldn't deactivate properly.. but in this case, you can!

[Purkake]

Having limited activations is stupid, it doesn't matter if it's 5 or 50, it's the principle of the thing.

 

But then again I wasn't all the excited about AP in the first place.

[Tigranes]

*shrug* I hate invasive DRM, Ubisoft isn't getting a cent from me. Said that a million times. But as far as I see it this particular DRM has tried to accommodate customers, so I'll give it a chance. Maybe we enjoy picking holes in other people's arguments too much these days, but there's a difference between case-by-case and hypocrisy.

 

Anyway, if you think any online activation is bad enough for a no-buy, again, fair enough, your call.

[Sannom]

Having limited activations is stupid, it doesn't matter if it's 5 or 50, it's the principle of the thing.

 

But then again I wasn't all the excited about AP in the first place.

 

Not more stupid than a disk check (whose absence is probably the reason for the DRM).

Edited May 6, 2010 by Sannom

[Raithe]

But then again I wasn't all the excited about AP in the first place.

 

 

o O (Just to derail before things devolve into a "drm firestorm")

 

Fie! Fie! Or otherwise... Blasphemer!! Send for the Obsidian Inquisition!!

 

Now it has me curious what has Purkake non-excited by the incoming AP.

 

A new rpg by a group of people who've made some entertaining rpg's before... in a non-fantasy setting, in a modern day setting, and with the possibilities of a really good choice & consequence set-up to explore... Thats got to be a leeeel bit exciting for you...

[Morgoth]

There are virtualy no activation limits, because when you uninstall you can get an activation back.

 

Unless you want to install on more than 5 machines at the same time. But who does that?

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

[Enoch]

My compliments to the Mod. I wouldn't have expected ya'll to edit and (presumably) re-host the image to clear out the profanity while preserving the core message contained therein (a message which I heartily endorse, by the way) when the easier route of simply deleting the post was well within your power.

Edited May 6, 2010 by Enoch

[Purkake]

But then again I wasn't all the excited about AP in the first place.

 

 

o O (Just to derail before things devolve into a "drm firestorm")

 

Fie! Fie! Or otherwise... Blasphemer!! Send for the Obsidian Inquisition!!

 

Now it has me curious what has Purkake non-excited by the incoming AP.

 

A new rpg by a group of people who've made some entertaining rpg's before... in a non-fantasy setting, in a modern day setting, and with the possibilities of a really good choice & consequence set-up to explore... Thats got to be a leeeel bit exciting for you...

The track record. Sorry, but this isn't Black Isle anymore and the times have changed.

 

So far Obsidian has released:

 

• One unfinished game with some nice potential (KOTOR II)
  
• One super buggy game with a mediocre story (NWN 2)
  
• One fantastic expansion pack on a somewhat less buggy engine (MotB)
  
• One expansion pack that focuses on the NWN 2 engine's weakest component - the combat (SoZ)
  

 

AP might be an awesome game, but I will most certainly wait and see, it might just as well be a horrible nest of bugs with some story sprinkled on top.

 

 

Also, I have a theory that the Obsidian guys do better when given a somewhat more fantastical concept, but that remains to be seen.

 

Edited May 6, 2010 by Purkake

[Flouride]

The track record. Sorry, but this isn't Black Isle anymore and the times have changed.

 

So far Obsidian has released:

 

• One unfinished game with some nice potential (KOTOR II)
  
• One super buggy game with a mediocre story (NWN 2)
  
• One fantastic expansion pack on a somewhat less buggy engine (MotB)
  
• One expansion pack that focuses on the NWN 2 engine's weakest component - the combat (SoZ)
  

 

KOTOR II > KOTOR 1

NWN 2 > NWN 1

MotB was storywise the best game I've played since Planescape:Torment.

[WorstUsernameEver]

It's true that Obsidian's track record is far from perfect, but I've liked the game so far.

The reason I'm interested in Alpha Protocol is what they've shown us though, not the fact that is being made by Obsidian.

[Humodour]

if I ever forget to de-activate, or have to reformat, or replace some hardware, I'm screwed, and I can easily see that happening more than 5 times to any game I replay (i.e. most decent RPGs).

.

 

Not that I think it'll change your mind but I've to point out that no, if you format or replace hardware you're not screwed, since you can de-activate an installation from Uniloc's website.

They also promised to patch the DRM out, so assuming they keep their promise, the only advice I can give you is buying it after they do.

Sucks, I know, but the DRM scheme has been already decided, the only thing I can see them doing is patching it sooner if they see it is affecting sales.

 

 

Well, this is the most uplifting post in this thread by far. I'll consider it. Hopefully in the not too distant future I can buy the game without any form of DRM. God knows I'm a huge GOG fan and always check if a game is on there before I buy it on Steam.

 

Who told you "they promised to patch the DRM out" BTW?

[Humodour]

I guess the overarching question in this thread for Obsidian is: why on earth did you or your publisher elect to use Uniloc on Steam rather than Steamworks?

[Uchikoma]

if I ever forget to de-activate, or have to reformat, or replace some hardware, I'm screwed, and I can easily see that happening more than 5 times to any game I replay (i.e. most decent RPGs).

.

 

Not that I think it'll change your mind but I've to point out that no, if you format or replace hardware you're not screwed, since you can de-activate an installation from Uniloc's website.

They also promised to patch the DRM out, so assuming they keep their promise, the only advice I can give you is buying it after they do.

Sucks, I know, but the DRM scheme has been already decided, the only thing I can see them doing is patching it sooner if they see it is affecting sales.

 

 

Well, this is the most uplifting post in this thread by far. I'll consider it. Hopefully in the not too distant future I can buy the game without any form of DRM. God knows I'm a huge GOG fan and always check if a game is on there before I buy it on Steam.

 

Who told you "they promised to patch the DRM out" BTW?

 

http://blogs.sega.com/usa/2010/05/01/alpha...pc-drm-details/

 

"Am I protected for the future if the Uniloc service is discontinued?

Yes, we take your rights as a consumer very seriously, so we will provide a version of the game without license management (available as a patch) in around 18-24 months after release. We can

[WorstUsernameEver]

if I ever forget to de-activate, or have to reformat, or replace some hardware, I'm screwed, and I can easily see that happening more than 5 times to any game I replay (i.e. most decent RPGs).

.

 

Not that I think it'll change your mind but I've to point out that no, if you format or replace hardware you're not screwed, since you can de-activate an installation from Uniloc's website.

They also promised to patch the DRM out, so assuming they keep their promise, the only advice I can give you is buying it after they do.

Sucks, I know, but the DRM scheme has been already decided, the only thing I can see them doing is patching it sooner if they see it is affecting sales.

 

 

Well, this is the most uplifting post in this thread by far. I'll consider it. Hopefully in the not too distant future I can buy the game without any form of DRM. God knows I'm a huge GOG fan and always check if a game is on there before I buy it on Steam.

 

Who told you "they promised to patch the DRM out" BTW?

 

Their DRM faq. Of course, there is the possility of them not upholding the promise, but for now I'll just go with what they said.

[Joseph Bulock]

I guess the overarching question in this thread for Obsidian is: why on earth did you or your publisher elect to use Uniloc on Steam rather than Steamworks?

 

As people have stated multiple times, Obsidian doesn't have very much influence on DRM issues. Publishers determine these sorts of things, it's almost always out a developer's hands.

[Calax]

http://kotaku.com/5532425/this-is-segas-drm-solution

 

Relevant data above. But it sounds like a fairly lax drm overall. Maybe Sega is trying to be a counterpoint to Ubisoft, but either way it's nice that you don't HAVE to have a 'net connection for a singleplayer offline game.

[kirottu]

But it sounds like a fairly lax drm overall.

 

It is. It

[Morgoth]

Krezzy just likes to whine about that kind of stuff.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

You have a stupid definition of activation.

 

How is it "stupid" when you take a Steamworks-enabled game and type in the code once, forever locking the single activation to that account. You might have unlimited installations but you do, in fact, have only one activation.

 

By comparison Uniloc allows 5 installs without no benefits to the customer whatsoever.

 

I'd rather use it, where the DRM will be patched out and you can revoke one at any time, over Steam (and this is coming from someone with 125 games on Steam).

 

...go revive it if you wanna push your agenda...

 

What "agenda" do you speak of?

 

...if I ever forget to de-activate, or have to reformat, or replace some hardware, I'm screwed...

 

The Uniloc DRM takes this into account and you can get an activation back even if your computer is completely destroyed.

 

...and I can easily see that happening more than 5 times to any game I replay (i.e. most decent RPGs).

 

The Uniloc DRM does not limit installations, it limits activations. You can have up to five computers simultaneously activated and, if you for some reason needed to put the game on a sixth, it will automatically deactivate a machine of your choice to allow for the newer PC - the system, if it works, sounds like a perfect blend on protection and customer service (well, as perfect as you can get while still using activation-based DRM).

 

...it's a DRM scheme which adds value and is hassle-free.

 

I'd disagree with you there, while it adds some value it also takes away value. As for being "hassle-free", I'll just say that I've had more issues with Steam than any other form of DRM.

 

 

EDIT:

I'm not against Steam, although I really do think that it's not that great, or you liking Steam, what bothers me is that you're complaining about how "restrictive" one form of DRM is while advocating one that is stricter and less friendly than the one being disparaged.

Edited May 6, 2010 by Deadly_Nightshade

[Tigranes]

Deadly, I think Krezack's willing to be more reasonable now that he has the full facts about AP DRM. Don't restart the war.

[Sannom]

I've asked for precisions on the Sega boards, because either I'm completely misunderstanding something, or that 5 activations limit is in fact not limited at all I mean, how can that scheme work if it doesn't check the activation each time you launch the game??? You can just install the game, free the slot on the web and still play your game since it doesn't make any check after the installation. Unless they have a non-blocking check each time you launch the game that forces you to re-activate if needs be, but just gets over with the game if it can't reach the internet? That would be counting on the general "I don't care" attitude of most people, which isn't stupid, but wow wouldn't it be unnecessarily sneaky

Edited May 6, 2010 by Sannom

[Baeus]

I think (think is the word here) that after it checks your activation over the internet the first time it sends its 'you may work now' code to the game. That just stays there forever without the need to reconnect to the net. But it will only do that 5 times unless you connect to the internet and reverse the activation for one of your PCs. That reversal would have the Sega servers sending another code to your computer to FUBAR that particular installation of AP, I assume.

 

360 version ahoy for me though

Edited May 6, 2010 by Baeus

[Daracus]

Meh the fact that they will remove the DRM over in 2011/2012 is fine with me. So long as a company uses copy protection that is dissimilar to Ubisoft's persistent online model, and is a great game to boot its fine with me. Sega/Obsidian you just made yourselves a sale! Some1 get the Stonecutter's Stone of Triumph!

 

Also I got to state the following since some1 brought this up... Not all PC gamers who strongly dislike copy protection are pirates. Some of us are avid supporters of this platform and would gladly buy its products (otherwise Steam would not have 25 million users). I support steam is because it allows individuals to do two things that other copy protections seemed to **** up during product testing and not realize: 1.] unlimited installations (sometimes hard-drives crash, partition are irreversible damaged, ... **** happens and you loss an installation point) and 2.] No constant online connection required (you can essentially use Steam's offline component).

[WorstUsernameEver]

Also I got to state the following since some1 brought this up... Not all PC gamers who strongly dislike copy protection are pirates. Some of us are avid supporters of this platform and would gladly buy its products (otherwise Steam would not have 25 million users). I support steam is because it allows individuals to do two things that other copy protections seemed to **** up during product testing and not realize: 1.] unlimited installations (sometimes hard-drives crash, partition are irreversible damaged, ... **** happens and you loss an installation point) and 2.] No constant online connection required (you can essentially use Steam's offline component).

I can't help but quote this part since you basically expressed what I feel in a much more coincise and precise manner than I probably would.