Dragon Age discussion

[Sannom]

The interactions between Khelgar and Grobnar were hilarious, I think. The little gnome got on Khelgar's nerves as nobody else could, and Grobnar looked like he was mostly oblivious to Khelgar's not-so-subtle insults and threats of a terrible, painful death.

 

Some people think that for all his annoying and nonsense talks, Grobnar redeemed himself with his death I mean, trying to shield a 7-feet tall blade golem with his 4-feet tall body? Can you do more stupid yet more awesome ?

Edited February 24, 2010 by Sannom

[aries101]

I'm currently playing (when i have the time) the Dalish Elf origin. And I find the story and the lore around the Dalish elves very moving, emotional and gripping (sp?) The first thing you'll notice is that you care thrust right into the story, there's no cutscene or telling of story to get you inside the story. You play the story to find out what Dalish elves are all about - or rather were all about - once upon a time. The lore surrounding the Dalish have been carefully crafted. It is by far the best in any Bioware game so far, I find.

 

As for the Twisted Rune quest, I never knew that - well,maybe next time, though.

[Stephen Amber]

Bishop & Sand were hilarious. You don't see henchmen like them everyday.

 

Most of others were stereotypical... Typical air headed gnome, dwarf fighter type, righteous paladin. Ho hum.

 

I like SoZ. You're not dragged along through the plot on a leash and the overland map is how it should be done... with the exception of overland encounters being a bit too frequent, though they could usually be evaded and avoided. The yaun-ti areas towards the end were very well done.

[Enoch]

Some people think that for all his annoying and nonsense talks, Grobnar redeemed himself with his death I mean, trying to shield a 7-feet tall blade golem with his 4-feet tall body? Can you do more stupid yet more awesome ?

I think that Grobnar redeemed himself long before that. His heartbreaking response to Shandra's death was the emotional highlight of the game.

[Guest Slinky]

While my opinion on NWN2 OC is pretty low, it does have one funny thing: I noticed earlier in some Bioware interviews how they said that if the players find themselves hating or loving some characters in their games, they consider that as a success in their part. The thing is, I don't think I have had any stronger feelings, good or bad, for ANY character Bio has done after BG2.

 

But by god, I hated Grobnar and Qara in NWN2 so much that I REALLY wanted to strangle them with my bare hands. So congratulations Obsidian.. I guess

 

Having played it through 3 times (back in the days I still had the patience), I can tell you I have no idea who you're talking about. I remember the names, but not the characters. I only remember Bishop because he was such a bastard (as is consistent with his character). And umm something about a silver shard and a main villain who resembles those formless shadows from Princess Mononoke (although not that much).

Dammit boo, send a box of whiskey to the mods or something to stop your posts from materializing suddenly in the strangest places

[RPGmasterBoo]

I'm considering it.

 

Either that or cookies with cyanide.

[HoonDing]

At least Grobnar has a concept of usefulness. (And he's pretty funny, especially at the siege. )

Qara would get brain cancer if she touched a book. Gawd, I wanna punch her so bad.

At least I got to deliver the killing blow at the end. _{Disintegrate would've been better.}

Sand is a very weird mixture of Xan & Edwin. I can't stand him. I always make sure that he leaves in the end because Qara is infinitely more useful in the final battle. Let her & Jerro bombard Skeletor & his cronies and things are over very very quickly.

[Stephen Amber]

Sand is a very weird mixture of Xan & Edwin. I can't stand him.

 

lol

[Maria Caliban]

What do you mean by "what MotB was for NWN2?"

He probably means that NWN2 sucked until MotB was added. But again that's like an opinion.

 

I was hoping for something a bit more interesting than 'NWN2 suck. MotB awesome.'

 

Yes. A great expansion for a thoroughly generic game.

 

I see.

Edited February 25, 2010 by Maria Caliban

[Monte Carlo]

I'm wondering how you have DA2 without Grey Wardens / Darkspawn / Blights etc. It seems to be the core of the setting.

 

Not that I'd mind, I think Thedas is interesting enough to support a totally different plot but I just can't see Bio making the leap out of such an obvious comfort zone.

[RPGmasterBoo]

What do you mean by "what MotB was for NWN2?"

He probably means that NWN2 sucked until MotB was added. But again that's like an opinion.

 

I was hoping for something a bit more interesting than 'NWN2 suck. MotB awesome.'

 

Yes. A great expansion for a thoroughly generic game.

 

I see.

 

Well what else is there to say? NWN2 was a good game in the sense its not broken, completely outdated on the technical side, illogical in plot or whatever but at the end of the day it was just nothing special. It was the first game to really try to replicate BGII and while it got some things right, it got just as many things wrong. Even after three playthroughs I don't remember much about it, except the general impression. Just like Dragon Age I liked it at the start, grew bored in the middle and plowed my way through the annoying endgame.

 

Mask of the Betrayer was even worse in gameplay because of the epic level stuff, but it had good characters and an interesting plot - particularly the former. That pulled me through a game that wasn't really much fun to play. I was disappointed by the ending slightly because I really wanted to destroy the Wall of the Faithless, (I hated it ever since I saw it in the Campaign Manual) and that turned out to be impossible.

[RPGmasterBoo]

I'm wondering how you have DA2 without Grey Wardens / Darkspawn / Blights etc. It seems to be the core of the setting.

 

Not that I'd mind, I think Thedas is interesting enough to support a totally different plot but I just can't see Bio making the leap out of such an obvious comfort zone.

 

Easily. There is plenty of lore that doesn't deal with the darkspawn. The Spectre / Reapers / Periodic invasions deal was the worst, most recycled and derivative part of Dragon Age. Just removing that for a remotely meaningful plot would give the game an instant +10% in my book.

 

Playing a party from the Tevinter Imperium, with all the ruined empire backdrops and dangerous vibe would be genuinely exciting. Perhaps on a campaign to eradicate the Qunari, with the PC playing a major role in the Tevinter army. Anything really. As long as it doesn't fall in the villager-to-hero save the world mold. That would give a thousand opportunities to explore genuine moral choices, if the PC came from a culture that accepts slavery, worships the old gods etc. Make the capital of the Tevinter Imperium like Athkatla, set half the plot in it, allow the PC some truly evil choices that actually fit his character and the opportunity to change his world view and you have your "MotB".

 

*Perhaps even allow him to ascend to rule the Tevinter Imperium and unleash all out war upon Ferelden in the wake of the Blight. Yeah... nice...

Edited February 25, 2010 by RPGmasterBoo

[jaguars4ever]

Even though I rate MotB and reckon its the closest thing since PS:T, not being able to destroy (or even attempt to destroy) the Wall of the Faithless was the most disappointing thing about MotB. All the hype, army building, testosterone pumping was geared towards that final climatic moment...only for the rug to be swept from under your feet with a giant FU from Daddy Mac Kelemvor. Yeah, I'm happy for you that you're God of this realm, and Imma let you finish, but Shard-Dude is packing some of the ph4test shizzle of ALL TIME! Fo' sho, homies. Shard-Dude was a veritable god-slayer (goodnight Myrkul) bordering on god-like powers himself. Combine that with some of the nastiest generals in the business (Ammon Jerro, Uber Dragon, Epic Lich, Fallen Angel) and we pretty much had the badassitude department covered. Hell (pun not intended), even if the odds were suicidal we should have at had the chance to go for it ala ME2. That's the way to do a suicide mission right.

[Tigranes]

It's been widely established that settings-wise Obsidian would not have been permitted, or have found it prudent, to allow the player to mess with the God and his back yard.

 

Besides which, I liked it. Sometimes, even if you do all the hard work and justice is on your side, the world doesn't turn out the way you want or the way things should be. I loved that. It fit the story. That final 'failure' completes Kaelyn's symbolism as well.

[Sannom]

I'm wondering how you have DA2 without Grey Wardens / Darkspawn / Blights etc. It seems to be the core of the setting.

 

The Qunari crusade Sten would not stop talking about would be a good setting for a game. With the Qunari added as a playable race (with a different origin based on sex and adherence or not to the Qun) and the possibility to choose your side

 

It's been widely established that settings-wise Obsidian would not have been permitted, or have found it prudent, to allow the player to mess with the God and his back yard.

 

From what I've heard, the developers hit themselves on the head for not trying harder about this, because the Wall is no longer in the 4th Edition. They basically assumed it was too much of a demand and didn't push it forward, and kinda regretted it in retrospect.

Edited February 25, 2010 by Sannom

[HoonDing]

Taking down the Wall of the Faithless would indeed screw up the entire Forgotten Realms setting. I can understand why it was not an option.

 

But then again, MOTB ends a couple of years before the Spellplague, where the setting gets majorly raped anyway... so why the heck not?

 

Even though I rate MotB and reckon its the closest thing since PS:T, not being able to destroy (or even attempt to destroy) the Wall of the Faithless was the most disappointing thing about MotB. All the hype, army building, testosterone pumping was geared towards that final climatic moment...only for the rug to be swept from under your feet with a giant FU from Daddy Mac Kelemvor. Yeah, I'm happy for you that you're God of this realm, and Imma let you finish, but Shard-Dude is packing some of the ph4test shizzle of ALL TIME! Fo' sho, homies. Shard-Dude was a veritable god-slayer (goodnight Myrkul) bordering on god-like powers himself. Combine that with some of the nastiest generals in the business (Ammon Jerro, Uber Dragon, Epic Lich, Fallen Angel) and we pretty much had the badassitude department covered. Hell (pun not intended), even if the odds were suicidal we should have at had the chance to go for it ala ME2. That's the way to do a suicide mission right.

[jaguars4ever]

It's been widely established that settings-wise Obsidian would not have been permitted, or have found it prudent, to allow the player to mess with the God and his back yard.

 

Besides which, I liked it. Sometimes, even if you do all the hard work and justice is on your side, the world doesn't turn out the way you want or the way things should be. I loved that. It fit the story. That final 'failure' completes Kaelyn's symbolism as well.

Whether they're "permitted" to bring about a paradigm shift in Fugue Plane (which incidentally had the best music in the game along with the Astral Plane. Well done Obsidian!) is Obsidian's problem. The point is that denying the player a chance to assault the wall is anti-climatic after all that build up. If they cannot properly execute a climatic finish due to the constraints you mentioned, then either their plot is whack, or the setting is as appropriate as Lady Gaga's style of clothing.

 

Besides, there's a distinction between process and result. What you describe as failure is the result. Assuming, arguendo, that symbolism and fatalism that you describe is congruent with the result of failure, it doesn't explain the denial of process - i.e. the attempt - to bring about that result. Some things are worth fighting for, dying for, even if for all intents and purposes your efforts are doomed to failure. The devs didn't even give us the choice to throw caution to the wind and go for it. I would have gladly settled for a character death ending if need be. Instead, we had to settle for Kelemor's waiving palm of deus ex machina as everything skuttled back to the status quo ante. Somehow, the devs confused Epic Levels with Epic Fail.

Edited February 25, 2010 by jaguars4ever

[RPGmasterBoo]

Some things are worth fighting for, dying for, even if for all intents and purposes your efforts are doomed to failure. The devs didn't even give us the choice to throw caution to the wind and go for it. Instead, we had to settle for Kelemor's waiving palm of deus ex machina as everything skuttled back to the status quo ante. Somehow, the devs confused Epic Levels with Epic Fail.

 

I agree. Pop the champagne.

[213374U]

The devs didn't even give us the choice to throw caution to the wind and go for it. I would have gladly settled for a character death ending if need be. Instead, we had to settle for Kelemor's waiving palm of deus ex machina as everything skuttled back to the status quo ante. Somehow, the devs confused Epic Levels with Epic Fail.

Pretty much.

 

- Kelemvor: Look, you'd better not try it. It's really difficult and it would be quite messy.

 

- Spirit-Eater: Oh, okay then. *wanders off*

 

This after the whole buildup, completing the quest and raising hell in Kelemvor's realm. You just... turn around and walk away. O-kay.

 

After beating it, I was left wondering. Why did OE choose to develop a story where, at the very end, it's not even possible to try? Some sort of sick joke at the players' expense?

 

It's even worse after going for the evil ending where it says that the player devoured a few gods before a coalition of powers managed to take him down... so chances are the player could have in fact succeeded. I could totally feel WotC flipping the bird at me, at that point.

 

 

/hijack

 

Edited February 25, 2010 by 213374U

[RPGmasterBoo]

This after the whole buildup, completing the quest and raising hell in Kelemvor's realm. You just... turn around and walk away. O-kay.

 

After beating it, I was left wondering. Why did OE choose to develop a story where, at the very end, it's not even possible to try? Some sort of sick joke at the players' expense?

 

One agreement in a day is a coincidence, two is a conspiracy.

[213374U]

I try to keep my enemies off-balance at all times.

 

j/k

[jaguars4ever]

NumberMan hit the nail on the head (as usual). If there was ever a moment begging for choice & consequence in RPG history, is was it. What a miss. Worse than Gazza's airshot against Germany in Euro '96. In fact, this was a C&C moment that not only was needed, but was required for the reasons Numbers mentioned. At least it'll go down as one of the greatest FU moments in gaming history. To bad the real victims weren't those saps on the Wall, but guys like RPGmasterBoo and 213374U (i.e. guys actually smart enough to know that they're being ripped.)

[HoonDing]

After literally devouring Myrkul, the PC's stats & abilities really should've become akin to a Greater Deity, and made it possible to topple Kelemvor later on in his home plane (IIRC Gods can otherwise only be killed on the Prime Material Plane).

 

Imagine having the option to become the new god of the dead as a sort of neutral or good ending, aside from causing Ultimate Kaos by destroying the wall. WOTC could've then considered this "new dead god" ending to be canon (let's face it, Kelemvor was a major pansy anyway).

[Wrath of Dagon]

This is what I don't understand about people praising MOTB to the heavens. The whole plot could be easily resolved if Safia's mother just thought to pass the sword of the Gith along with her, instead of you going through all the rigamarol. Then you just ask Kelemvor nicely for your soul back, case closed. The only thing else in the game are some boring fetch quests we've seen 1000 times before.

[Tigranes]

I see - so the point being that you should have been able to try, and go down in flames. Fair enough. I agree that was needed.