Monte's Dragon Age Thread

[deganawida]

"sounds like gromnir is developing a bit of a crush on a certain young hot n manly college boy... "

 

no... but admitting that we feels a great deal of envy for those folks who enjoyed their 4-5 liberal arts education/vacation. sounds critical, but isn't. honest, if we could do all over again, we woulda' taken advantage o' those college years to do more than study, work, and play ball.

 

to stay on-topic, Gromnir rarely understands the graphics wh0res who dissect screen shots. silly big weapons is... silly. *shug* is hardly something that is gonna discourage us from playing or enjoying. is a couple o' fantasy crpgs that don't use over-sized weapons, and they suck. Gromnir dealt with wacky big weapons in ps:t, bg, nwn2 and a host o' other crpgs we did like. am too tired to be bothered by big weapons, particularly as da does not appear to have reached the excessive anime standard for such things. excessive blood spatter is also a bit cheezy, but the persistent blood can be disabled, no?

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

My problem with the big weapons isn't the size, but the speed. I mean, your average zweihander weighs 7 lbs and 2-6 oz., but the way they swing those things in Dragon Age, they look like they weigh over 100 lbs. It's very slow and ungainly.

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

To be honest, most of the animations in Dragon Age look like something out of Oblivion to me.

[Aristes]

Well, it depends. I think Oblivion had some really good graphics in a lot of areas. Dragon Age is later, but the graphics aren't a huge improvement. I think they are prettier, but I'm not a slave to graphics anyhow, so what do I know? Folks constantly tell me I don't like the graphics for this game or that as much as I think I do. Must be a failing on my part.

 

I don't think the story is bad. In fact, I think central story is solid. It's pretty standard, but the individual elements do give it a shine, particularly in the care the design team put into the codex. I still skim, but the fact that I even bother reading it at all is remarkable. I'm not going to run out to buy the Dragon Age novel, but I'm interested enough to want to know what's going to happen next.

Edited November 6, 2009 by Aristes

[Syraxis]

Toolset's out

[entrerix]

i dont need great animations in my rpgs so long as story character and C&C are present in spades.

 

it helps sure, who doesnt like the shinies, but its pretty far down on the list of importance

[Asol]

Got PS3 version which was a mistake.

Rogue balance seems way off, the utility is not there rogue skills require a solid investment to keep up but don't pay out at least not early, combat no damage survivability cc or utility. They're just bad. I end up doing everything with the other useful characters to make sure my rogue stays alive to do his mediocre damage. I have a mage clearing the same areas easier on a higher difficulty, so far it seems like rogues are just too gimpy.

 

The regen thing doesn't matter, the consequence is that every fight generally has plenty to kill you for mistakes or put a learning curve on an encounter. The graphics and general art(game too) come off overall as worse than JE/Kotor. There are good points but a lot of weird decisions...

Edited November 6, 2009 by Asol

[Volourn]

I don't get the complaints about 'gimpy' rogues. This is a party based game where you can control all party members. So.. does it matter that much if you go with PC fighter/npc fighter/npc rogue/npc mage or PC rogue/npc fighter/npc fighter/npc mage? It's the same exact set up.

 

Again, this idea that a ROGUE should be as good (or better) fighter than a FIGHTER (err.. warrior.) is silly. Not to mention, try using the rogue's poison and traps as well. Also, the sneak attack can do wonders as well.

 

Tsk, tsk.

 

I do agree that - at least on the 360 (or original xbox for JE) - that ME and JE both look better than DA, overall.

[Killian Kalthorne]

Graphics wise, DA does look like a step back from ME and JE, but I like DA more than both those games. Personally I like playing rogues the best so far, with Mages being a close second. Fighters seem just to blah, but then again fighters have always been just blah to me.

[Asol]

I don't get the complaints about 'gimpy' rogues. This is a party based game where you can control all party members. So.. does it matter that much if you go with PC fighter/npc fighter/npc rogue/npc mage or PC rogue/npc fighter/npc fighter/npc mage? It's the same exact set up.

 

Again, this idea that a ROGUE should be as good (or better) fighter than a FIGHTER (err.. warrior.) is silly. Not to mention, try using the rogue's poison and traps as well. Also, the sneak attack can do wonders as well.

 

Tsk, tsk.

 

I do agree that - at least on the 360 (or original xbox for JE) - that ME and JE both look better than DA, overall.

 

I posted in MC's thread as an attempt to avoid trolls like yourself, rather than unintentionally draw them like a jerk, you have got to be a bio employee or something. In any case are you for real on the rogues issue or just trying to blow smoke?

The only reason the first npc rogue isn't complete crap is bard skills and the potenial to set her down the archer's path. Rogue perks require talent and skill investment and still don't [payout unless you are trying to say it works out later in the game than I am in which case you should say that rather than blowing hot air. I have tried the other early games everything > rogues, its borderline wasting your own party slots to include your pc when their is no real payout.

 

The fact is other classes are easier with less thought required to meet objectives.. Rogue should be as good as mage or fighter 'all around'.

The utility and other aspects don't come near to making up the combat deficiency that is the case I am making that you decided to ignore. I assume you must be playing a rogue and your points in lock pick, coersion and pick pocket talents must be compensating the lack of ability to win critical combats on difficulty ratings above normal in your opinion otherwise you are just completely FOS and need to STFU. Thanks.

Edited November 7, 2009 by Asol

[Volourn]

Cry all you want. Bottom line is rogues are sueful in this game nor are theyw eek. It's a party based, and it shouldn't (and doesn't) matter if the PC is a rogue or an NPC is the rogue.

 

Crying about me doesn't change the fact that rogues have a lot of useful abilities and can help both in *and* out of combat. It's funny that you claim rogues suck yet others elsewhere are claiming that they are awesome.

 

Also, there are things to complain about DA this isn't one of them. I cna list 10 things just off the top of my head that I dislike about DA. *shrug*

 

So, go cry in sour milk with your swearing over nothing becuase someone has a different opinion than you.

 

 

"The utility and other aspects don't come near to making up the combat deficiency that is the case I am making that you decided to ignore. I assume you must be playing a rogue and your points in lock pick, coersion and pick pocket talents must be compensating the lack of ability to win critical combats"

 

Again, it doesn't matter if I'm a rougue. I have a rogue in my party. She's useful. It does NOT matter in this party based game if the PC or an NPC is the rogue.

 

 

"So.. does it matter that much if you go with PC fighter/npc fighter/npc rogue/npc mage or PC rogue/npc fighter/npc fighter/npc mage?"

 

There is NO difference in these two set ups.

[Asol]

Good Lord are you really thinking you can make this case? You would have to find the game easy on what ever difficulty you played to include a rogue for rogue perks versus rogue draw backs in combat. Sheesh if you got nothing just stfu or back out, I play my rogue for the challenge and the game is relatively addictive it self.

 

The fact is a balance issue is most likely there whether you can cop to it or not is irelivant.

[alanschu]

You would have to find the game easy on what ever difficulty you played to include a rogue for rogue perks versus rogue draw backs in combat.

 

What is it that makes the rogue such a handicap in combat?

[Asol]

You would have to find the game easy on what ever difficulty you played to include a rogue for rogue perks versus rogue draw backs in combat.

 

What is it that makes the rogue such a handicap in combat?

 

The lack of equivalence in a general index of dps, survivability, utility and crowd control etc... with other the other two classes, also I am talking about the early game. If there is no ability to tank dps or cc then they are just a liability or variable speed bump tank. The other classes have much more transparency in generating strength, ie non existant dex bonus to daggers etc... If you believe it fine make that case the early game gives no reason to expect rogues to be even marginally functional... etc...

Edited November 7, 2009 by Asol

[alanschu]

Unfortunately I'm not sure of any particular way to measure the dps.

 

I'm surprised that people are feeling this way but it seems to be a concern. At work almost everyone considered the dual-weapon rogue to be a more than valid build throughout the game. I'll touch base on Monday.

Edited November 7, 2009 by alanschu

[tripleRRR]

I am going through my first run through of the game right now with a rogue specialized in dueling. Last time I checked I was doing 41% of the total damage for my party. And considering the bug with dex not applying to daggers I could be doing more than that easy if that is fixed before I finish this play through.

 

Rogues require some more careful tending and management than the other classes, but I don't feel they suck in any way. Archers now, not at all impressed with those one bit.

[alanschu]

I will agree that until end game, archers are not that useful.

[Bos_hybrid]

This game has killed my social life.

Edited November 7, 2009 by Bos_hybrid

[Monte Carlo]

^ The single most effective measure of a good game

 

As for rogues, it's not that they're gimped, it's just that their combat role is perhaps too discrete for the fast'n'furious mob nature of the melee combat in DA. In the Wilds I tried using the rogue Grey Warden recruit to (a) flank (he was OK); (b) backstab (too much going on - he was taking lots of damage);

[Monte Carlo]

OK, of course I restarted bit with the same origin. I rushed through to the Tower of Ishtar just to get a grip on the game then realised I wanted to do it again more thoroughly.

 

I'm getting to grips with tactics - and rogues aren't really coming into it. Two sword and shield fighters, a two-handed lunatic hiding behind them but stepping forward to lay on some serious smackdown and a mage on buffing and crowd control will kick the snot out of most combat scenarios.

 

Rogue? Hmmm. Poisons are nice, archery is very average. Dirty fighting? Hmmm yet to be impressed when compared with the ownage of shield bashing (etc).

 

Most annoying feature? You can't bash chests. I'm guessing it was the only way of tempting people to take the totally underwhelming rogue class.

 

Cheers

MC

[Kaftan Barlast]

I think the most annoying feature is the lack of dialogue structure, often you cant be sure if a response is positive or negative and wether it will end the conversation or continue it. I expected them to use the same technique Mass Effect did, which was brilliant. Youd know that the bottom-right reply would finish the conversation, top-left would be something kind and so on. In DA you're completely left out to the writers, so for example; what you might think is a joking reply will be an insult that ends the conversation so you miss out on something.

[Purkake]

I think the most annoying feature is the lack of dialogue structure, often you cant be sure if a response is positive or negative and wether it will end the conversation or continue it. I expected them to use the same technique Mass Effect did, which was brilliant. Youd know that the bottom-right reply would finish the conversation, top-left would be something kind and so on. In DA you're completely left out to the writers, so for example; what you might think is a joking reply will be an insult that ends the conversation so you miss out on something.

 

I'm not exactly sure, but maybe the trick could be reading the responses and deciding what they mean in the context? Having a "nice response", "rude response" and "I'm outta here" is stupid and oversimplified. You shouldn't always know how the person is going to interpret your response.

[Monte Carlo]

About 70% of the long conversation cutscenes are as dreadfully oppressive, long and occasionally tedious as I feared. They are getting in the way of the game.

[Kaftan Barlast]

I think the most annoying feature is the lack of dialogue structure, often you cant be sure if a response is positive or negative and wether it will end the conversation or continue it. I expected them to use the same technique Mass Effect did, which was brilliant. Youd know that the bottom-right reply would finish the conversation, top-left would be something kind and so on. In DA you're completely left out to the writers, so for example; what you might think is a joking reply will be an insult that ends the conversation so you miss out on something.

 

I'm not exactly sure, but maybe the trick could be reading the responses and deciding what they mean in the context? Having a "nice response", "rude response" and "I'm outta here" is stupid and oversimplified. You shouldn't always know how the person is going to interpret your response.

 

 

The Mass Effect system is not simple and oversimplified, its in fact the best and smoothest dialogue system of any game ever created. In DA it has now happened several times that I go "I want to ask him about this, but there are no options yet so Ill just try this reply, it seems like it would lead the conversation in that direction." only to find that the reply ends the conversation alltogether and I cant bring that up again without releoading and restarting the conversation. In ME, I could have just clicked on an option to the left, which I know will continue the conversation. Like this:

 

 

 

Ive noticed that the replies on top are generally nice and the ones in the bottom usually ends the conversation, but it doesnt follow that rule with any consistency which adds to the inconvenience. In DA, I mean.

Edited November 7, 2009 by Kaftan Barlast

[Gromnir]

me dialogue is retarded. is a resource saving feature and nothing more. 'cause shepard has full vo, bio had to find some way to multiply his responses... typically not matter what dialogue wheel choice you make, 'cause shepard is gonna have 1 or 2 responses. wheel gives player the illusion o' choice. dialogue wheel interface may have more graphic appeal, but only fools and game reviewers see as innovative or neato.

 

btw, Gromnir purchased yesterday afternoon and played pretty much non-stop through the night. played entirety of human noble origin and osterwhatzitz with a warrior specializing in 2h weapons... skill in combat and coercion. we also played through the dwarf noble origin with a dw rogue. normal difficulty (no patch). a few observations.

 

writing were over-the-top in human noble origin. maybe were ok on paper, but with vo it just became tedious and sad. terrible. dwarf noble weren't so bad, but were not all that inspired neither.

 

for the most part, the vo has been excellent.

 

only have access to the following jnpcs: allister, morrigan (sp?) the french chick and sten. sten is a solid combatant, but the bard sucks... weak combatant and boring. sten is a bore too, but at least he not stink up the joint once combat begins. the problem with sten is that he is a 2h warrior, just like Gromnir. am not having much of a place for him in our party. for a sword and board guy, allister is a potion sink, but the banter 'tween him and other party members is moderate fun. did we mention that we really need a healer. seems wacky that there is only one in game.

 

combat in origins were ez... less so afterward. Gromnir needs a party healer... stat. we had more than a handful o' reloads, and we used potions frequent.

 

the rogue class is pointless (shoulda' had skills tied to stats and done away with the unnecessary class bloat) but our rogue seemed relative okie dokie in combat... we only played the origin an a little of the wilds with the rogue, so am not sure if we have enough experience to make accurate judgment 'bout combat or rogue efficacy.

 

archery sucks.

 

thus far, Gromnir has used more healing potions in DA than we did in bg and totsc combined. did we mention that we need a healer?

 

graphics: no complaints thus far. game says we is only having a single core, but nevertheless, everything looks nice enough to Gromnir. btw, first thing we did after loading game were were to disable persistent blood spatter.

 

am hopeful that there is more coercion options later in game. so far there has been almost none. feedback on this board suggests that there is good coercion options later, so we will keep hope alive. am hating when developers use persuasion to simply avoid fights. better be more/better options.

 

the only thing we has spent money 'pon in game is flasks and potions. everything worth buying is current too expensive or not nearly as good as what we already got.

 

combat tactics as a skill? is possibly the single dumbest thing we has seen so far. possibly the second most ridiculous aspect is wolves with overwhelm. get attacked by 8 wolves and 3 of them manage overwhelm at same time. reload. wolves?

 

more thoughts later. gonna take a nap now.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[entrerix]

I think the most annoying feature is the lack of dialogue structure, often you cant be sure if a response is positive or negative and wether it will end the conversation or continue it. I expected them to use the same technique Mass Effect did, which was brilliant. Youd know that the bottom-right reply would finish the conversation, top-left would be something kind and so on. In DA you're completely left out to the writers, so for example; what you might think is a joking reply will be an insult that ends the conversation so you miss out on something.

 

 

 

in real life people sometimes get offended when you try a joking response. i havent played the game, but what youre describing sounds totally reasonable and a lot BETTER than mass effects illusory dialogues